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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Got to take the rough with the smooth Matt. Plus I paid for two runs, I was going to have them! Glad to hear the foot is better and all is back to normal.
I'm visiting an industrial estate to the NE of Blackburn. Staying overnight in Blackpool though
Can do my intervals along the promenade.
Nice reps Simon - not sure there is nice combination for reps and LSR, they're both quality sessions in their own right.
I look at a 3hr marathon and think it is only 2x 1:45 halves, so can't be too hard. It's been a few years since the last so I have forgotten the pain and the slowness involved. Mara is something for when I'm older and the kids have left home. Too many other boxes to tick first.
That is some slightly odd maths there, IronCat.
2x1.45 doesn't sound at all hard.
2x1.30, a little harder
That's probably why it seemed easier than it should be!
Some cracking training there Matt. Looked through the Podium results looking for you this week. I'll do one of those this summer, is it really that fast?
My legs caved on me big time this morning. 4.5 miles in 8:30 avg, felt terrible. Then 7.5 miles in 7:45 tonight didn't feel much better. Shows what a poor night's sleep can do!
Session for tomorrow looks really grim. 5 x 1K @ 3K (off 90seconds). Seems a bit too sharp for the recovery to me. Might aim for target 5K pace instead.
I've got an hour progression run tomorrow ending at 5km pace. Probably just as tough as reps but psychologically it seems tougher.
see-man, I tried 5x800 at 3k of 90s last week, and they came out bang on 5ks!
I guess you do the first one "reasonably" and see where you are from there
Iron -
Got a 7m MP job up again tomorrow. 8laps of my usual loop for a direct comparison to 2 weeks ago, or the unthinkable 28 (+) laps of the track?
I was wondering the other day actually, when people do long spells on the track, like say 10-20mins at a pace, how do they actually measure the pace?
I was thinking this when the GPS was showing 5.35 or so pace, but I was obviously doing 5.45 pace (just averaging under 1.26 a lap).
If you do 10mins round a track, you're quite unlikely to stop on either the 200 or the 400 marker precisely, so how are you measuring distance and thus pace?
With your crazy party boy lifestyle I'm not surprised
When I have a session up the next day, involving a 6am wake up job, my head starts telling me get the heck to bed post 9pm..
ie now! get to bed!!
Iron, I've tried hard sessions all three main types of day, all have their pros and cons.
I do prefer morning though. Gets it banked, you're generally at your freshest, once the morning swirl is done, and you get a great sense of normally, relief to get your day underway!
Leaving work, in the winter months, knowing there is some colossal solo quality work to come, especially on a Friday was tough work! Especially when your recovery time to the next morning's run is even shorter then.
Lunchtime wasn't always too special either. You have to eat to the right window, and then you can find you're utterly monstered and the last 3-4hours of the day become a right drag
Lunch is a winter treat to get some daylight, but also clears the evening for playing family taxi.
Stevie, it really is a pancake flat course, no sharp bends just sweeping turns. Imagine a miniature racing car track, 2 longish straights, with a couple of sweeping bends. It's next to the motorway and has had a stiff wind at each one though which I think is still affecting times slightly.
With my HM starting at 8 am I'm going to try and do a bit more quality early doors as I find a parkrun a bind at 9am. My legs really don't seem to respond early doors though.
Trialled my 7miles MP round a track, instead of my loop today.
28 laps, and 63 metres worth!
Came out 1.29 average, as per the plan, for a 5.58 pace.
I did do 5.55 round my loop the other day, but although lacking the track's safe smooth regularity, you get more of a mental lift on that route, and aren't checking your pace every 400m!
Either way, the zone is meant to start at 6.00, so both are under, so all good.
Not sure i'd gag to do another long MP run round the track though. Is a bit of a slog on the mind!
Nice one SG. I haven't been following closely, but can I take it that "MP" is still just a useful training pace that fits in with your schedule, rather than a meaningful statement of intent to have a go at a proper race?
Since training for Berlin last year I've definitely come round to the benefits of controlled tempo pacing on the track, and seem to be able to knock out quite a few laps without going too, er, loopy. Longest so far has been 40 laps* of alternating 1M @ MP with 800 @ threshold, and I've also done 32 laps for 8M at the end of a progressive 24 miler (the rest done on tarmac). I'm pretty sure I'll do similar for this year's build-up.
*...and 97 metres.
Yes Matt, that is it.
Alarm-cat woke me up at 0600 but went back to bed.
yep just a zone PP.I can't pretend I ever finish a "Long" run on a Sunday and think i'd love to have lashed a few more miles out.
And I can see the benefit of the track for longer stuff, i think the complete lack of having to worry about any obstacles is the best thing. Consistency too.
It's good for mental strength too. When i arrived and thought, hmmm, 28+ laps, I thought about that Marigold chap, and I'm sure he did 26 loops round a mile route! Compared to that, mine was a doddle! Also I remembered 16x400 at 10k pace ages back.
All in all, really pleased to get it done. Am also happy this odd stitchy/muscle tightness/strain doesn't impact beyond just feeling it!
your sessions sound epic, especially using sheer length of run, mixing MP and Threshold. No doubt it's what is needed for a marathon, and a darn fast one too though.
Stevie - Ive run that Steve Way loop - its on grass in the grounds of the JP Morgan building. As you drive into Bmth through the main route in, its on the left - big glass thing that looks like a grandstand!
Very dull loop!
Good MP run SG. I try to avoid doing runs like that on the track now, as it is putting pressure on my left thigh and causing pain, so I try to do them somewhere I'm not constantly turning left.
On the subject of multiple laps, you should check out Charlie on the Sub 3 thread who does marathon-length runs on a 0.4m loop. I've certainly done 15 laps of two different one mile park loops. Of the two, the easiest one mentally was unsurprisingly the one that didn't go past my front door every mile.
Excellent training week Matt, looking forward to seeing you nail a race soon, I'm sure it's going to be good.
Quick reps Simon as well.
SS, could be something underlying. Don't worry about pace if they're supposed to be easy.
Sleep - this is my big failing as a runner. I get about five and a half hours per night on weekdays, supplemented by useless dozing on the sofa. It's not that I can't sleep - it's just that I don't go to bed early enough. I am certain more sleep would improve my times, as well as making me substantially more alert. But sleep is boring.
Took advantage of the sunshine to do my own longish XC run from home this lunchtime - up to the Thames and along then back, totalling 12.8 miles. I know this as my 'magicians route', as it passes close to the houses of Paul Daniels and Uri Geller. Turned around at the landmark known in my household as "the bloody big house with a full miniature gauge railway in the back garden complete with 5m x 2m replica station". That's how posh this area is. Nice run.
Laps! My progression run was a comedy of errors. I planned it in km not miles, so had to reroute on the fly and did some laps nearby. After a few I got bored so ventured further afield and ended up on some stairs to an underpass. That wrecked the pacing.
Unsurprisingly, after a hard weekend, today didn't go totally to plan and I struggled to hit HMP let alone 5km pace. Binned off the last mile increase and ran home easy instead.
Nice run Dachs. I couldn't get by on that amount of sleep.
Frustrating run then Iron!
Dachs - 5.5 hours sleep - that's shocking mate! How can you body recover from the thrashing you give it??
SG - nice loops. Funnily enough I was thinking of the Steve Way loop when I read it earlier. Marathon length runs on a 0.4M route just sounds complete lunacy! Might as well get a hamster wheel!
10M xc at lunch for me. Probably not the best idea after 15 on Sunday, but wanted to get a double figure run in early doors this week as I might be racing Sunday. All went OK, but a tad slow and the adductor niggle is still there.
Nice session SG and prob for the best Iron. Not been the best week for you.
Hopefully you can keep on top of the niggle Bus.
Think I'm on 400s tonight when I'd like nothing more than plodding a 10 miler out somewhere instead.
A few things to comment on:
Simon asked about speed work then long run or long run then speed work: have discussed this at the club and the general view seems to be if racing at or below 10k then speed first so that the session is done on fresher legs, with the opposite the case for longer target races. But there will be exceptions, of course!
Matt: was impressed with your guys on Sunday...you should have joined them! Was there a team race?
Long runs on the track: as Dachs says the problem is with always turning left. If there are no other track users I would change direction every 1609 metres or so.
I'm sure the niggle will go over time Bus, to be replaced by another one
Good mileage for runch though.
There is definitely something to be said for plodding about on an easy run instead of quality work. Less thought required for a start!
Ric has said in the past that knowing when to stop is a good skill to have, whether it is stopping because you're hitting all your reps/paces easily, or because you're not hitting reps/paces at all.
Changing direction on a track - that's got to be a pace killer too.
Yes, IC, pace will obviously be affected by a change in direction...but better losing a second or two than nursing a niggle or two!
Always! I warmup/coolddown in the opposite direction; track definitely causes an imbalance.
Aley, I definitely wouldn't switch direction each mile in a long tempo, you'd completely kill the flow!
Easily done though for mile reps, as you're stopping, or at least slowing for a recovery anyway.
Interesting people get little track direction niggles. Maybe I don't do enough track for that to happen.
Iron, the M man once told me I'd have been better stopping a session early then flogging it to the bitter end. But that was probably my worst session in 5 years. Pretty tough anyway, 2miles 10k, then harder bits at 5k, but I was off 10k pace into lap 2 and just melted down.
Completely down to prep though. Late night, underfuelled, super early start! Learnt my lesson
Generally though, I don't at all like the idea of stopping a session, or even postponing one, as I tend to gear up for it. Also, if you give yourself the chance to quit, you always think of that as an option another time, similar to races.
SG, I understand where you're coming from in regards to not packing a session in. I think that if I was at a session that was taken by a coach who knew me personally and he was able to spot that I was missing splits and looking jaded then that's where their input is valuable.
Training solo, you sort of get in the mindset that you can't quit, as if its a weakness like you say.
I also tend to see my speed sessions as confidence boosters and having a shit one sometimes feels the end of the world.
Track tonight went pretty well for me. A tough few days running with Saturdays 15+ mile, Sundays 17 and a 14+ double yesterday I wasn't overseen to do the 2 x 3 x 800 again. 45 between reps and 3 mins between sets. Averaged a second up on last week at 2.26. Forgot to stop my watch on one of the reps but luckily a bloke takes all our times down.
Yep Matt, that's the other side, when your coach is literally there. Have to take their expertise. Must be harder in some ways, as when they're there, you can't relay tales of hurricanes, obstacles and other guff
Reading your last paragraph is always a reminder, that some of the real high achievers on this thread, as well as being talented, are still working pretty darn hard. I don't think anyone of you is fast by accident!
ps, Scotty, you around?
Just got a text through for some new 5mile race in Southampton way, at the "Ageas Bowl" venue, which is iconic apparently.
Heard anything of that one? September job
Not the Scotty you were asking for Stevie but close enough
Live in Southampton as well and here's that race your'e talking of: http://www.runningmania.co.uk/perform5/
Seems it's by the same company that do the Eastleigh 10km, as they emailed me through the details after running Eastleigh this year