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6:52, 6:51, 6:49
Again, over-egged it but the wind was behind me
My HR stats show that probably wouldn't be sustainable for 13.1 (though i did have some crappy spikes
) but it did feel easier than when i was using 6:50 as 5x1m (60secs) threshold pace in July.
As promised this is my photo of when I won the dad's race at school sports day wearing my Leukaemia Research banana to raise my sponsorship profile before I did the GNR in 2007.
Can you tell I was pleased to win??
Blimey. I think someone needs a forum avatar change.
No I'm a serious runner now
Tommy - How did you get on with the Fizz?
Skinny - That's some list of niggles you're sporting! Hope they come to nought.
Lou - Good news on Sunday's run. Interesting coaching session too. I have no idea what my running form is like. Doubt I'm the flowing thoroughbred I like to imagine when I'm really striding out though, so probably best it stays that way! Do you have any rogue 1/2" hanging around on your height BTW? I do.
Or did, my spine is probably beginning to collapse on me now I head towards my mid-40s! 
Mace - Another 3 x 2 @ HMP session?! Is that two of them in about 4 days? Sounds like you're in a very good place anyway. Nicely handled (no pun intended) with the physio by the way!
Lit - Bit of negotiation going to be required on the pilates at this stage I think. Now my wife is running as well, I don't think it would be reasonable to block off a night per week without talking it through properly with her first, and last night wasn't really the moment...there was, er...cricket on the telly.
Richard - Concur with the positive noises about your upcoming half - sounds terrific. Hope you have a great time.
As for races, no major targets at the moment other than to get properly fit, though I have got an entry form and cheque on the desk in front of me for a 1500m on the track at Lincoln on the 28th if that counts! Provided the tendon stays healthy for the rest of the week, I'll hopefully be having a proper crack at parkrun on Saturday too. No shyness discussing targets for me, I use revealing them as motivation if my pace is slacking off! My 19:47 PB over 5k on the road in July won't be under threat (not least because Rushcliffe is over distance), but might have a sniff of going sub-20 if it all comes together, having run 20:25 there on 24th August.
Hmm. So exactly 1:30 half marathon pace, then, mace?
Okay, so hmp for me is supposed to be 6:40-6:45, so 13:20-13:30 per rep, but instead I did them in 13:12, 13:13 and (thinking I'd better keep it up so as not to look like I'd just overdone 1st 2 and faded) 13:12. Last one was kind of hard work though.
Ha, done by a 'nana
What happens if you stray out of your current zones, do you get fined
Seriously though, you must be tempted to hit target at times especially as in theory it becomes easier ? How important is it to hit the correct zone and why ?
Agreed...and a name change. Banana Skinny Fetish Fan and a new avatar it is.
Great photo, Skinny!
Stevie will have to come along and answer most of that, I think. I think what happens is we wait and see how I do in my next race, and if it's significantly more rubbish than my training paces I look a bit thick. If it's similar, then I get away with it.
If you didn't have the zones pacing the first intervals would be really difficult (hard enough even with the zones). also its set at just the right level so you should be able to hit all intervals AND lead to improvement but without overstetchingyourself leading to injury.
Of course as you improve and get close to a race it is likely that you will probably be able to sneak under the zones as you are a little bit faster/fittert than when you started.
At least that's my understanding of it.
x-post
Yes Bob, and a 16M in between, hmm .... fingers x'd the injury holds up
Lit - so you DO miss the zone. Interesting as i wouldn't say my last was noticeably harder but then that's not to say i could keep it going.
mace - I do a bit, yes. Let's hope it's because the pace zones are based on races I did months ago and I've improved, and not just because I'm a massive twat who's running everything too hard.
Hahaha - I do this all the time - I spend all the last rep wishing I'd run the first one slower - I keep meaning to ask Coach whether you should be happy to go back to correct apce on later reps or whether it is important to maintain pace even if it was too fast.
Well... I always think if you haven't got back to the right pace by the second rep you kind of have to keep it up so the first ones don't look like misplaced hubris, and you're not left going 'but I was trying to get the pace right on purpose and also it was really windy on that last rep...' (it was, though).
I have to admit i do struggle with the concept of running to current fitness and how that brings improvements. I guess with experience it's a case of being able to run to feel more so you naturally move to a quicker zone without using a watch - or do you all run your intervals to feel anyway ?
Nice paces though:-
6:36 * 13.11 = 86:30 would be a nice 2 minute PB
*heaps on pressure*
My HMP zone is 6:35 - 6:30 but not done any 3*2m yet - think it will be on the schedule for next week as I'm probably getting your schedule one week later.
I got a bit of a sore throat last night (gone this morning) but it reminded me that there are all sorts of nasty obstacles to overcome in the autumn, not just injuries, like illness and the weather - both could totally wreck any sort of calculated race time
I try my best but it's a bit of a mess within each mile normally - go off a bit too fast, slow down a bit too much, overcompensate, slow down again then a bit of a sprint finish to make sure I hit the required time - I think they are becoming smoother paced as I do them more but I'm sure they are not the constant effort that Coach presumes I am running them at.
May as well round down to 86, Skinny ?
Piss off, both.
Skinny - I do that too, but usually only on first rep. That's why it's just as well we get to do more than one.
mace - I am trying to teach myself to feel the different paces more reliably, but it's a work in progress, with some feeling more natural than others. I sometimes use the garmin pace alert function especially for shorter reps or when targeting different paces in the same session, but I always set the target quite broad so I don't train myself to rely on it too much. I don't bother for longer reps like today, but am still having to check the watch rather than just knowing I'm in the right zone. I can more or less do MP accurately though.
Although setting my own sessions, I'd still be interested in the answer to the early overcooking conundrum as I also tend to go off too fast in an interval / tempo session and then don't want to fade. Sunday's 3 miles at tempo for example - my intention was to work up towards what McMillan reckons is my current LT pace (6:48) over the first 2 miles, with the final mile just inside it - 6:56, 6:51, 6:46. First was a shade quick, but royally cocked up the second by thinking I was doing it right at 6:46 (though thinking it was going to be rather tough to get down to 6:41 in the final mile) before it dawned on me that I was already doing final mile pace. Whilst mulling over how to handle it, the mile clocked over and having completed it in 6:45 pace, felt I better keep it going...
It is a slightly different conundrum for you, though Bob, as you don't have to tell anyone your mile splits if you'd rather not. So it's not the 'will I look like a twat' question, more a sensible question about what would be most beneficial for your training...
That's exactly it, Lit. For once I am actually asking a sensible question that I'd be interested in a sensible answer to!
Having said that, I'd still 'feel like a twat' to myself if I outperformed my racing paces in training though. Not happened yet thankfully - that random 7 miler I did back in June was probably the closest I've come to bombing so far, though running most of it solo and it being the morning after a long afternoon of cricket didn't help.
Races are different. I was thinking more of the short-term humiliation of failing to complete an interval or tempo session you should be able to do because you did the first half too fast thinking you were great, and then bombed spectacularly in the second half.
Re. your conundrum, though, I think as you are setting your own sessions, you will have thought about why you have set it the way you have. If you set it and you're secretly hoping to outperform your expectations, then you need to go back and set it properly the first time.
Ha! Are you trying to get me injured again?
No, seriously - it's a fair point, but I think I'm pretty hard with myself. On Sunday, I'd rather have done a 2 x 2 mile at a slightly lower paced tempo with a breather in between, but as it's overall volume that seems to be my issue at the moment, couldn't do that and therefore decided to try to get maximum 'bang for my buck' by working around LT pace for 3 continuous miles.
If I've understood correctly, rule of thumb seems to be that LT is about as quick as you'd get for a continuous tempo as thereafter you get into 10k pace which is too damaging, and you'd thus save 10k pace and quicker training for interval work to build in some respite?
Does that sound right?
Some of the more recent interval sessions I did (800s / 400s) were actually largely suggested by Simon over on the MG thread based on race times over the spring/summer. It was outperforming these (particularly the 400s) that made him suggest (and me think there was something in it) the short distance bias I seem to have.
Though you could construct a reasonable case that pushing myself harder than suggested in those contributed to getting myself injured of course!
I don't know, I just do as I'm told! But I do think if you've gone to the trouble of thinking out sensible reasons why you should train at a particular pace, you might as well try and stick to it as far as possible.
I do! I just get carried away.
Er, Richard, isn't that more like 3 x 2 miles at 5k pace? And what happened to the .2?
Ouch. No wonder you didn't want to do a third rep. I mean 'didn't have time for'...
Well after catching up on everyones 3x2 mile HMP sessions I feel like I'm missing out. I did 1x3.5 miles easy (again), not quite as fun.
Skinny - that is a great photo!
Bob - physio is optimistic that I'll be able to pick things up more next week. Got another massage and ultrasound session on Thursday, where I'm going to ask if I can run for a bit longer than 30 minutes. So hopefully OK to target Worksop at end of October, fingers crossed.
How do you set your paces and sessions Bob/Mace/anbody who hasn't got a coach? Does anybody use Daniels Running Formula? I got a copy of it in June and used a few sessions from it before the 10K last week, dunno if they helped or not. I like the book but find the setting of paces to the exact second a bit over the top, so I give myself a bit of a window/zone to work in (similar to McMillan but not as broad).
Lot of chatting going on this afternoon. Apologies if I miss anything.
Tommy - I've got a copy of Daniels, but haven't really really used it to set sessions. When I was training consistantly I tended to be a bit boring and just cycle three interval sessions (3x1M, 6x800m, 10-12x400m) and tempo is either 6M w 3M @ threshold or 10M w 6M @HMP depending on whether I do it at lunchtime or in the evening. I think that is taken from a table in Daniels which plots tempo pace against duration from 20mins at threshold to 60mins at MP. Hope the hand improves.
Rich - that is a little bit out. Whatever did people do before garmins?
Lit/Skinny - is Stevie a tough coach? I'm now picturing Sir Alex's hairdryer if you fade on the last rep.
Bob - I tend to to go off a bit fast, slow through the middle then pick it up a bit at the end. My final reps are often the fastest. I think the little tweaks and combination sessions are psychological training rather than physical training effect. The aim being to refine your control of effort and develop mental strength to push when it starts to hurt.
Skinney - the aqua running is done in deep water so you don't touch the bottom of the pool. I have a float belt which keeps my head above water then just pretend to run in the water. I do move forward slowly but that's not the point.
7 easy miles for me last night. No obvious ill effects today.