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How hard should you run ?
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So the summer after my O Levels I would go down to the club net with a 14 year old who wanted to be the next Geoffrey Boycott and bowl for 2 hours to him until I had mastery of line and length.
I achieved my goal of being an average club cricketer. I see running in the same way. As long as I can look back and know I gave it my best shot it gives me satisfaction.
br - aren't you a teacher?
How would the parents of your charges feel is they knew that you are only giving 75-80% at work? Surely they pay fees and or taxes to pay you to give 100% to the education of their offspring. Your contribution to to our society is only 75% of what it could be.
Because you are instead committed 100% to something that contributes to no-body but yourself.......
Just stirring you understand - no personal insults intended.........
{Loon runs for her life - very very slowly due to low level of commitment to marathon training and v sore legs from yesterdays hills!!!!}
In some ways this is a bit smug - its a way of saying "hey I can go this quick, without really trying - so if I did try I would dust absolutely everyone"
It isnt true of course, your only as quick as the results you achieve. You have to at least be a bit obbsessive to get those results.
I dont chase PB's as im an off roader, But I only ever race to get as high a position as possible I would not enter a race if I didnt think I could get at least near the front of the field. and whilst I might not follow structured training routines Im not ashamed to say I have to train seriously hard and do alot of miles to achieve my results.
Im the guy vomiting at the side lines just after the finish looking like death that you quick guys just whupped by a country mile, but the thing that makes me smile is that on the day I went as fast as I could and that makes the training mileage and the race worthwhile.
I'm not sure it's obsession per se which is the worry; it's more whether the obsession is driven by realistic amibitions, and how those impact on self-esteem, etc.
I think it is in Rogerian therapy that they set up a distinction between one's self image and one's ideal self. If these things are hugely apart, then you get problems (so they reckon).
I used to give 100% until the government changed the job so it became an exercise in paperwork. I don't leap out of bed desperate to go in and fill in tick boxes all day.
Is that what people pay taxes for?
It's like training really - run every day at 75-80% effort and you'll achieve excellent results. Try going at 100% every day and you'll end up on the sidelines very quickly.
Would you agree that its not possible for us to give 100% to everything all of the time. If that is the case, don't we have the right to set our own priorities. It may be that some people do chose to give a 100% to their jobs - that may be at the expense of other things, such as family, outside interests, etc. The implication of your posting is that BR should be defined only by what he does at work - "Your contribution to to our society is only 75% of what it could be". That's a value judgement that he and other people may not share.
Loon, you don't have to run for your life, me, BR and those other obsessives (oops, sorry committed) athletes are probably too knackered to give chase anyway :-)
The problem with running is that you can very often get phenomenal improvement in a very short time. After this period its all about diminishing returns - more and more effort for less and less improvement. The sensible, well adjusted person recognises that there comes a time when they want to move onto something else - and reap the pleasures of quick initial achievement at the new activity. However the committed/obsessive runner is determined to wring every last drop of improvement from his performance. I think this desire says much more about the charactor traits of the committed runner than it does about the worthwhileness (sorry for a word like that!) of the sport he is pursuing.
You would be a fool to put 100% into your job, stress and the chance of an early grave all for nothing
work to live not live to work. Go there get the job done take the money - then go home and put your real efforts into life.
Also, by being an active member of my running club I hope I contribute to society by helping to organise races which raise money for charity and encourage wider participation.
I agree with every word Jason and Tom have written.
"I'm not sure it's obsession per se which is the worry; it's more whether the obsession is driven by realistic amibitions, and how those impact on self-esteem, etc."
Spot on. I'm tempted to say I agree with completely, but I'm not sure how that sits with the "disagreeing completely", stance I was adopting only 12 hours ago :-))
Given that BR agrees with everything you have written, this must mean that we're now all in complete harmony.
What was it we were arguing about?
BR - you come across as an ideal teacher. Shame that your commitment to teaching was questioned. I think your attitude makes you highly suited both to public service and to running - you're in it for the long haul.
May your success in both fields continue.
I guess no runner ever knows if he/she has fulfilled his/her potential - even in individual races it is sometimes difficult to know if things have gone well. We just need to cultivate a healthy enthusiasm for the well-being that comes with trying to perform as well as we can, and appreciating similar achievements in others.
Unless you are also in the proffesion of teaching or something similar you cant point a waving finger at someones working input to society.
Most of us are in the private sector working with the ultimate aim of making big companies big money. The sum of our working efforts is personal gain and company gain.
Think I am somewhat biased due to current situation of basically being forced to give 100% (often 100% plus) at work and have no work-life balance. I am living in hotels and away from home and my 'life' as such with the obvious exception of my trainers. This has been going on more or less since Christmas and will be the same for another 6 weeks or so.
For example the reason that I have taken so long to respond is that I had to do some w*rk!!
I am of the (perhaps controversial) opinion that if I spent 10 or 12 hours a day in work I might as well give 100% to get the best out of it for myself and my (b*astard) employers. I do not get overtime. I get the pleasure of a job well done and a very pleased client.
I enjoy my running - at the moment it is all I do beside work and sleep. It is my only real 'life' and me-time. I see it as my pleasure time and leisure time. I do not see it as my work. Don't misunderstand me - I follow my schedule. I try as hard as I can every time I run. I have a goal - my first marathon in 6.5 weeks (AAGHHGHGH).
But if I don't enjoy it when it is the only pleasure I have then what is the point. And if I get to work too knackered to give my best then what is the point.
I would love to be able to do 8-4 (or whatever) and go out and do all the running and stuff that I would love to do - don't get me wrong!! I'm not obsessed with work.
I have to stop coming on this damn website - it just makes me upset and stops me doing all the stuff I've got to do and turns a 10hr day into a 12 hr day!!!
As I said - just stirring......
"You would be a fool to put 100% into your job, stress and the chance of an early grave all for nothing"
But clearly I am a fool for enjoying the work that I do.
If it gets to a stage where it isn't doing that and you are still putting in 12 hour days (which I thought were now illegal) then it's time to quit.
Thanks br and DG for the comments
I would just like to clarify something.
my first post was supposed to (and I even identified it as) stir things up.
It was badly phrased - I had meant to pose a general question and it rather looks as though actually I was critising br.
That is not the case - actually I have almost always agreed with brs comments on his profession when I see him on such threads.
Apologies if that is how it looked br - was defo supposed to be a more general stirring up rather than a critisism of you and your profession.
I am going to turn off and do some work so I can squeeze in my 6 miler tonight before it gets dark!!
Memo to self - stop throwing grenades into threads when you have shed loads of work to do....!!!!
;o)
I train quite hard although many people would say not so as I only run 4 times a week. However, two of those are interval sessions that are brutal and seem to bring great results. I started running in August after 5 years off and each month have knocked around 5 seconds from my 800 time since then. I don't want to improve any faster for various reasons - I want the improvement to be steady - but obviously there will come a point when improvement slows and stops whereby I'll have to increase my training. The question really is, I think, how far are you prepared to increase it?
Reading all this, obviously running (and work!) mean completely different things to different people. I often think putting 100% into work - or running - is quite possibly a recipe for disaster. To put 100% in it would involve giving the other thing up.
It is very frustrating when your life makes it difficult to accommodate the training you know is necessary to improve, and which you know the people you would like to consider your rivals are doing. I train as much as I can given work and family commitments, but it's not what I need to run at the level I would like to run. It's hard not to be focus on the runner you think you could be in those circumstances. That's slightly different from 'I can't be bothered to try but I know I'd be good if I did', but it still doesn't stop Jason being right.
But there is also another question, which really is the crux of the matter.
Are runners able to identify the point at which increasing the training isn't going to make any difference?
In this situation, will they be able to look back at what they've achieved, and say that they've done good?
Linford Christie could train until the end of time; he's never going to run a sub-2.20 marathon. Paula Radcliffe is never going to run 11.5 for 100 metres.
On reading your posts it does sound like you work for a private sector company - so therefore your 100% effort and long hours are for purely personal gain (be it mentally or financially) your job having the primary aim of making a corporate company lots of money.
Is this not selfish? when you could work less hours and channel your efforts more into something that did put something back into society - like maybe getting involved in your running club and help orgainising local events that inevitably benefit charities and others, or even just by participating and bit more and helping to keep the sport of running going at grass roots level....
It all depends on your you stand...
"It's worth nothing."
What does that actually mean?
I'm on sick leave at the moment as if I returned to work, I'd be weak due to not being able to stomach solid foods for several days now, and some horrid bug thing that has been inhabiting my system.
If I returned to wrk, I would either,
a) infect the whole staff
b) infect the kids
c) cause myself to have a relapse therefore causing more days off next week
d) faint through exhaustion and under-nourishment.
Should I really give 100% effort to work, Lunacy? No, I think I'll give 100% to getting better. You should try this job sometime, Lunacy, and we'll see you give a week's worth of 100% teaching..........
It's when you have to go back and do the same, with the same stresses, week after week that your life starts to suffer.
Teaching is very hard, and I couldn't do it.
On the flip side of this, there are many people, teachers included who don't give 50% to their jobs, although they are happy to pick up 100% of their paycheck.
Another thing in these target driven and performance management days is that if you are giving 100% to your job, then in order for someone to set you a challenging improvement target you'd be asked to give 101% or 102%, at which point you break down.
If you're giving 75% you can nudge it up to 77% for a while until the bean counters are off your back, without badly compromising your family, health or leisure.