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How hard should you run ?
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where on earth do you get this sort of evidence from? 80%? Are you extrapolating this from a sample of fellow-runners?
But my camera stopped working.
To flesh out the problem, the sample of 80mpw runners will likely differ from the whole population for various reasons:
a) The motivation-reward link; basically, success breeds ambition - you're much more likely to go for high mileage if you notice yourself getting good at lower mileage;
b) Physical tolerance - the very fact a body will over time tolerate 80 miles a week *presupposes* certain physical abilities (good running gait, etc) which won't be shared the population as a whole;
c) Realistic expectations - people have a fairly good idea of whether it is worth their while putting the mileage in; people will find their level, and train accordingly.
And so on.
In 20 years of running I've never met anyone who ran that sort of mileage who wasn't able to run a sub-3 marathon. Furthermore, the vast majority of runners I know that have broken 3hrs have not run that sort of mileage. There probably isn't even 1,000 people in the whole running 80mpw a week. I also have no doubt that there are many, many people who currently do no running at all that could (after a careful build-up) cope with running 80mpw and eventually run a 3hour marathon.
Thanks for being honest. The reason why your assertion struck a nerve with me is that for a couple of years (10 years ago) I did train 70-80 miles a week. All I eventually managed was a marathon PB of 3.20 and no amount of additional mileage (or more weight loss) could have got me much nearer to 3 hours. A colleague at my Club, an international canoeist, on his first marathon attempt came 5th in the IOW marathon with a time of 2.50 on just 25 mpw of running! He led the race up to the 21st mile and then hit the wall (not surprisingly). OK, anecdotal evidence - but you must agree that there exist dedicated runners who will never get anywhere near 3 hours.
I think one of the things that makes parenting hardest is that it is difficult to be self-aware enough to avoid the sort of pitfalls you mention.
I have had the advantage of meeting Mr and Mrs P, and I'm sure doing so would reassure you in their case!
On the point about most people managing to run under 3 hours, surely there's a build/weight issue here? If you are big built with relatively short limbs, for example, running under 3 hours is far less likely to be achievable. Pounding the roads in training is going to take more out of you, too.
I have a friend who does ultra races, he was 14th in the World Cup 100K last year and the first GB athlete in the Comrades marathon, and he's done every single London marathon since it started. He trains 40 miles per week, no more. He almost never gets injured, and he says it is the accumulation of having done those miles week in, week out for year after year that enables him to do those events.
Bazza is spot on when talking about LIFETIME mileage rather than what you did the last few months.
Mrs Pants has been patiently putting the miles in but progress is very slow. But she has zero background in aerobic exercise. I did many years of triathlon before descending into obesity and even then I did 3 months of training a year in failed attempts at rectifying my situation.
Try 6 years of 80+mpw... ;-)
Tom. - No offense taken. JFB has met me and so he knows the picture you have is totally wrong. BR knows me pretty well and all the many activities I and my family are involved in, so he presumed I'd be angry, so far from the truth were you. It's not a problem. You get a piece of a jigsaw puzzle - you cannot be expected to see the full landscape.
Our kids are happy, relaxed, chilled and tons of fun. Our house is total chaos - we have 5 homeschooled kids - nuff said.
I thought all of what JFB said was spot on - and not just for hsi defending me! But his last paragraph summed up my family nicely.
"Also: if you throw away the TV and computer games, you can have a house peopled with musicians, athletes etc but also paints, crayons, CDs, arguments, different viewpoints and values; it doesn't have to be one or the other."
Precisely. And if you're built like Jason Leonard, then you're less likely than average to take up distance running in the first place (another reason why you can't extrapolate from a sample of fellow runners).
And yes, I know people who run under 3 hours on less mileage.
I'm surprised that you reckon only 1000 people run 80mpw in the country! Must be the company I keep:)
Lydiard being case in point.
Bazza is just talking from his experience and that should carry a great deal of weight, broad as it is.
Quite; after all, that's what all the flat-earthers said to Columbus as he set sail...
Bazza has years of experience of good level club running and draws his views from that experience.
You seem to have a nice little line going in intellectual ideas play but ideas about running don't come from the ether.
Elementary Logic Part 1
Nearly all people who run 80mpw can run sub-3hours for the marathon.
Is a completely different proposition to:
If all people trained 80mpw a week, they'd be capable of a sub-3hour marathon.
Even if you think the second thing is true, it's still a different thing.
Appeal to experience is just a bad argument BR.
I've been running club level athletics - including Div 1 x-country here in London, 12 stage relay, etc., etc., - for nearly twenty years (since 1988). I fundamentally disagree with Bazza.
So how come my experience doesn't count?
*sigh*.
Foo Bar, you're a star.
Can't speak for others but I would not agree with the simplicity of the second statement by itself.
"All" would have to be replaced by "vast majority"
"80mpw" is no magic figure. Some folks may need more (I genuinely do not consider 80mpw to be high mileage), some folks may need strength work, speed work (yes, you heard me right) or whatever the weak link is in their chain. But most CAN get there. And lifetime mileage (or perhaps even "fitness") is the biggest factor.
And I'd happily change "3hr" to "2:30" at worst. But I am talking long term and making presumptions about well structured, intelligent training, intent and lifestyle/commitments.
Of course, I can't prove this, but neither can it be disproved - that what makes these discussions so much fun! :-D
Some would never be able to get to that level through re occuring injury.
Its not like you can just go out and do an eighty mile week from a base level of fitness. It took me a long time before I could hit that kind of mileage (which I only very occasionally do)without being two steps away from injury.
Just to get to 80mpw training injury free is an achievement in itself
Still think you like being provocative though, which again is no bad thing.
Why do you think this would be true?
I can tell you why I think it isn't; but it's a long complicated story - and boring - about normal distributions, multifactorial causality (in terms of what consitutes a good runner), etc., so I won't torture you with it.
But given that we don't normally believe things to be true without good reasons, I'm wondering what your positive reasons are for believing it?
Don't go thinking that I'm an old, frustrated runner who tried and failed to get faster. I never tried!
But I'm the kind of person Jason is talking about. I can't train more than about 50 a week; I'd break down with injury. My running gait is terrible. I look like a demented penguin.
Not saying you should have or anything, but will you admit that it is possible to make the changes necessary to make a 3hr marathon runner for (let's pluck a number at random...) 80% of runners?
Pantman used to get injured on anything more than 40mpw until he switched to racing flats and fore / midfoot striking instead of clumpy trainers.
I used to get injured on 3 speed sessions per week so I cut back and have got faster due to the consistent high mileage training.
"lurk"
unlurk yourself and add something I dont wanna be the only Ultra runner left in this thread...Its getting over run by the sub 2:45 mararthoners. :-)