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I don't see how sharing information on eating and different regimes can be of danger to anyone. We are all adults and most people have a good understanding of nutrition, weight loss and training. In my opinion if you've got a pre-disposed condition, by that I mean an eating disorder then I don't think one article or discussion will chage that person's approach to eating.
I have no eating disorder so don't see this thread as dangerous. I take from it what I want and ignore stuff I think is irrelevant.
Chouette
You could be right about fluids as I never take a drink with unless summertime and work is so manic I usually finish work and think only a small cup of water i had drank that mOrning...will monitor water next week when back in work...thanks
Birkmyre.......you poor thing Mince Pies at least they will be over with by new year
I dont do chocolate or Mince Pies...but the RW choccie brownies are very scrummy
LL----- I am so sorry you have struggles with ED and hope you dont go back down that route again.Hope you fuel enough for your training.
we are adults and take what we want from this thread I know what is healthy for me and certainly have no intention of going as low as recommended ......I likje food that fuels my running and I know I could not survive on 800 cals a day to run 75 mile weeks or marathon train on. I want to be fit and healthy and run fast times nothing else.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Bought some scales - I am 12stone11lbs - which is a little bit less than I estimated but that could be down to the scales as they only cost a fiver. Target is to lose half a stone by the end of February.
I agree with the above - we are all adults and I haven't got a problem discussing weight loss.
I might even lose a little weight.
NOT SO FAR :¬)
Snigger Snigger
But Gobi you run lots and lots of miles so you can have a pie or 2
I am starving...........
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
WP - you don't have to starve to lose weight. In my opinion (I have a lot of those tonight
) I think with consistent training and a moderate fat intake (we all need some fats) no runner should have a problem with weight.
My meal tonight was yummy - mussels, prawns, squid and coley mixed with broccoli, carrots and cauliflower cooked in garlic and mixed herbs. Pinto beans added at the last minute for extra protein. Served with wholemeal pasta and garlic bread. Oh and a starter of garlic mushrooms and finally soya iced dessert and crushed dark chocolate. Not forgetting the 2 glasses of red wine to wash it all down
Littlelaura/Hilly; I think this thread could be a danger to those with tendency towards eating disorders, even if they fall short of being labelled as such. Hilly as you say most of us consider ourselves 'sensible', but if you are 'predisposed', every little shove brings you closer...... Your meal sounds yummy btw
Still not running, 2 weeks now
so weight up rather than down. (Just gearing up for Christmas & NY
)
I have got an eating disorder, I can't stop eating...
Pug
Morning
Hilly- I had not watched my food yesterday (virus) so all off a sudden I was starving no dinner did have 2 soya choccie youghurts, banana and a healthy eating Hot X bun good god I was hungry .....but a better explanation was found this morning
Your dinner apart from the Fish
sounds nice...soya dessert is that the frozen stuff in a 50p shape container if so it is delic
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
I agree that avoiding eating disorders involves more than simply being sensible. Not everyone who has succumbed to such disorders is by any means an idiot. To say that this means that those interested in weight loss for performance reasons should not discuss the issue or that no one should publish an article on the matter for fear of those with potential to fall into an eating disorder picking up on it is a little absurd though. It's a legitimate issue to discuss in relation to wanting to improve running performance.
Well, down to 85.2Kg from 88.6Kg 14 days ago... watching everything I eat... training again now (leg seems runable)... so.. long may it continue. Just another what... 34lbs of weight loss to go.
Pug
6ft and 10st 4lb, christ, how? I havn't weighed 10st since i was 8yrs old...
5' 10" and 13st, and everyone tells me im thin...
Pug i'm with you, 14/11/07 85.9kg, today 80.9kg and i'm f#cking starving! LOL
I'm not aiming for ideal race weight i know it wont happen, i'd just like to get down to a normal sedantry weight (whilst on 30-50 mpw).
I'm 6' 2" and 12st 13lb. I was a bloated 13st 6lb a few weeks a go.
I was 13st 6lb in April and in 11 weeks got down to 11st 12lb (average 12st 1lb) and ran a massive marathon pb at a carbed up 12 st 4lb. And this was done eating a very balanced, healthy 2300+ kcal a day and running average 55 mpw .
I've been out and inactive and eating like a pig for 3 months so have put the weight back on.
I'm back running and targeting 11st 8lb by April. But I'll settle for anything sub 12 or there abouts.
Horwill puts me idealy at 11st 5lb (187lb minus 15%)
Back in '85 I had a bit of an obsessive/compulsive/eating disorder thing and when I reached the point were I was binging and purging I realised that it had all gone a bit too far so stopped.
Heaviest I've been was when I was doing weights (2001) and was 14st 2lb (bmi 25.4 or overweight) but I was leaner then than I am now (bmi 23.2).
Im 5'7" and a slim build I need to shed a stone to 9 stone 1lb to reach my ideal weight according to Horwill
thats skinny
people do want to be given absolutes. no formula fits all. it's like "your max heart rate is (220 - age x hair colour / nimber of house points earned in third year at primary school)". balls is it. that might take you to near the middle of the normal distribution curve, but that's all.
lots of people on this thread have said "so i have to be x.xx kg". noooo. yu don't. the point is, that losing fat will almost certainly make you faster. losing upper body muscle ditto, if that's what floats your boat. but taken to extremes, you'll start to suffer.
i think the message is that you can definitely go faster if you get skinnier, to the point where lots of people in our obese society will say you look too thin, but there's no "golden target" that you SHOULD be at. and if you go too far, it will be counter productive. so lose the weight if you want to, but monitor your performance, and don't start to obsess about having to be at x.xx kg, because that's what some non-scientific spouter of (often) crap said you should be.
Candy,
It's not really an 'absolute' rather an interesting guide, or at least, it is to me. I'm embarking on my weight loss out of interest as it's not something I've ever tried before. When I look in the mirror I see myself as normal verging on slim and with no real need to lose weight for health or cosmetic reasons. You are, I'm sure, absolutely right in saying that there's no real 'should' but I think a lot of people are viewing it more as an experiment, given that we are, I think, a fit and active bunch.
It would be very interesting to be able to turn the clock back and say to Coe and Zatopek that each would have run faster if the former had been 5lbs heavier and the latter 5lbs lighter, bringing them within the 'norm' of Horwill et al calculations, but no doubt they tried that on their way to success and each found their 'ideal' weight.
I was really interested in your comment about losing upper body muscle as a form of weight reduction and I wonder how much, if at all, this was taken into consideration in these calculations. The reason I ask is that as a triathlete, I need good upper body strength to swim freestyle, followed by a stint holding myself up with my arm/chest muscles on my aero bars in the bike portion of the race. Reducing upper body muscle is an absolute no-no for me. At this time of the year I'm in the gym 3 sessions a week specifically building upper body strenth to prepare for increases in base training distance in the swim and bike.
I'm giving myself til the end of Feb, probably, to judge whether I feel, look, and run better and where on that weight reduction slope my personal ideal might be. My important race is not til June so if it's all going down the pan along with the reduced weight I've got time to pull things back.
For the number crunchers, I've gone from 58kg on Sunday 02nd Dec to 56.6kg this morning and I'm trying a mini-fast today since I'm not training. I've had just fruit, fruit teas and 6 brazil nuts and feel absolutely fine so far (in fact better than when I eat sugary rubbish for snacks).
Candy,
I think when people write "I need to be at x.xxkg", that's just shorthand for "According to Horvill, I need to be at x.xxkg".
We're all talking about the same subject so don't need to spell it out every time.
I think all folks need to do some sort of resistance work to make them healthy and strong, which then enables them to train hard and resist injury (like Gobi). If you do build a bit of muscle then you will also get a faster metabolism out of it, and that helps keep you lean.
If someone was to train with Olympic lifts (like athletes do) then they would end up building some muscle, but an ectomorph of a runner or triathlete isn't going to be able to pack on lots of muscle anyway.
I was 12 stone when I came back to running, and still am a year or two later. Anyway its difficult to spot reduce fat or muscle. Not that I'nm trying to. Like I said before, IMO the body will find its right weight. And once you're there then you should just train harder/smarter rather than watch the calories.
I don't give a sheiiit what Frank Fatman says to be honest... I know what I have to be and do... the formula that he gives just happened to back up what I already thought... so, that's what I'll do... I think if people really were at the level/weight that he gives (and lets be fair it's a ball park figure), then they'd be fine. All this I'm big boned and I'm already thin yet a stone over what he says, nahh... you'r enot thin and I bet your'e not 6% either
But that doesn't matter, it's an opinion, and if people dont' care and just run for fun, great... however, if you wanna run a 2:30 marathon or a 15.xx 5k, then this forumla isn['t far off the mark!
Pug
HC,
I totally agree. You are right on the money. The numbers listed in the articles *ARE NOT* Horwill's numbers, they are Stillman's numbers and as HC has pointed out (and as I pointed out too), the take home message from Horwill's articles are that *most* runners would run faster if they lost some weight, but the amount of weight loss required to obtain optimum racing weight should be determined by trial and error.
TR,
"I think all folks need to do some sort of resistance work to make them healthy and strong, which then enables them to train hard and resist injury (like Gobi)."
I'm afraid that I totally disagree with this statement. I think that resistance to running-related injuries stems from many years of conditioning produced by a gradually increasing number of miles run per unti time. It's taken me many years to be able to get to the point of being able to run 90M+ per week. I haven't done any resistance work during this period and in fact I think that it's best that weight is kept to a minimum in order to reduce pounding and impact forces associated with running.