Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Lucozade Sport Super Six: Right Said Aouita (3:45)
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Dan - I'm also with you on the treadmill thing. Rarely used them, but it has always felt incredibly hard work. Which is odd, because conventional wisdom is that you have to put them on a gradient before they approximate to outdoor running. You have to wonder how well they're calibrated....
Dan, Hi...been following your thread for a while & good to hear you're back on track.
With regards to the treadmill running - I couldn't agree more...about 30 mins in my limit as the boredom just kills me. I don't feel especially tired, but there is nothing to look at, nothing to do, boring boring boring. I can run outside for three hours and the time just flies by.
I'm also looking for the elusive 3.45 marathon. I did London last year in 4.01 and another in Kent in September in 3.59 (hurray! broke the 4hr barrier). I'm just not too confident that I can reduce my times by as much as 15 mins, but I do know that everytime I run I gain a little more experience and it seems that technique i.e. mental strength / steady pace is everything.
Anyway, keep up the posting...I promise to contribute more often, rather than just reading silently.
beccy - good to hear from you, i recently had to take a week off running - although I could eat what I wanted. In fact eating was about the only think I could do and I binged heavily for a week. Anyway, the point is - as Nick (coach) says: you will have lost much less fitness than you think, so don't worry about it. His point is that the body stays fit. I think the mind can plays games on us when we have to stop for a while...
joddly - i know, i don't understand it at all. I always put the treadmill on a gradient of 2 or 2.5 - which is meant to equal a flat pavement - and my legs couldn't move fast enough for just marathon pace, 7mph. I don't have a 1/2 booked until Bath on 15th March, which I'm starting to get really quite excited about.
Lake - totally agree, its our minds tricking us again. I made the schoolboy error of forgetting my headphones, and my eyesight wasn't good enough to read the subtitles on Sky Sports News. Anyway, you cracked the 4hr barrier so just go with the flow, follow the Garmin schedule and Nick's schedule and advice here and go for it. Have you been eating healthily and taking on carbs during running? These seem to be areas where we can improve (i hope). I'm not sure if wounded pride helps, but apparently Adrian Chiles (TV presenter) ran under 4hrs in a big silly outifit! 3.45 here we come
Thanks Dan, that's encouraging!
2.5 gradient on treadmill, surely that's a hill??! i've always put it on 1 for a flat pavement, and that's hard enough eek.
Beccy, you've got a point but someone once said to me "2 on the treadmill gives the same effort as a flat pavement" - perhaps its a myth but its stuck in the head.
Right - long run time.
Today marked a rite of passage in the marathon training, a bit like when the Spice Girls first played the Brits although without the Union Jack mini-skirt, power-pouting and lip-synching.
Something clicked today. Not in the mind - my mind's been fine, generally - but in the body, which has been around the block a bit over the last 2 months.
To wit: the brief was 2 hrs 15 mins, with the last 45 at marathon pace.
And it was fine. More than that, it was relatively straightforward and that in itself feels GREAT.
This was my route, courtesy of the excellent Headington Road Runner's website: http://www.hrr.org.uk/routes/index.php?act=view&item=11.
My slow pace was just over 6.5mph and it was no probs. I had Fighting Talk on the ipod, the sun was out, cruising along The Thames from The Trout in Wolvercote to Iffley Lock, all along The Thames - fantastic. Lots of old boys fishing (with empty nets), barges with junk overflowing on the bank, families with over-engineered prams, and a few couples who might just be wearing the same clothes they wore out last night. More power to them.
After 1hr30 I went up to marathon pace, just over 7mph, and then ran through the less glorious Cowley and East Oxford. The mind doesn't like having to speed up after 90 mins, even if the body can handle it.
Got home after 2hr 20 to take over from the not-very-well wife.
How were your long runs and where did you go?? Hope you're feeling like this schedule business is making a difference and getting you fitter, fitter, fitter.
Dan
Well done Dan - nice running
Sounds beautifully scenic.
I was reading 'What I talk about, when I talk about running' and thought of you yesterday. Have you read it? You'd like it.
Good to hear you had a good run Dan...being able to finish strongly (for the last 45 mins!) is superb - it must give you real confidence. Although I've thought about it, I've never really tried it, now I'm thinking I should. How far did you go in your 2.20hr ? About 14/15m?
Not much success to report for me today, apart from learning to be a bit more realistic with my expectations. I was aiming for 20m (having increased by 2m each week for the last few weeks), but we had some friends over for dinner last night (a rare occurrence) and so a late night, rich food and too much red wine murdered my running efforts by the time I hit 6m. I compromised on 12m for the day, at a very uneven pace, and put it down to experience. I've got a 20m race next Sunday, and will wait for that to do the distance.
The only good news today is that I didn't need my hat when I was running as it was definately warmer...is this the first signs of spring coming? Hope so.
On an alternative subject, on the Marathon Newsletter email I got a couple of days ago, I used the race time predictor with the time I did a half marathon race a couple of weeks ago (1.49hr - on a fairly slow hilly course) and it gave me 3.47hr. I'm not sure if it's to be trusted too much, but it's a lovely idea.
And finally, I'm slightly alarmed that your knowledge about the spice girls (and their Union Jack mini-skirt, power-pouting and lip-synching Brit performances) seem to be really quite detailed. Is their something oyu're not telling us? Come on! 'Fess up! We have a right to know!
Hi Dan, Welcome back
Not about much last week as in Hospital with my daughter (Planned tests) Managed a run on Friday and that was it 40 minutes Tempo
Managed 17 miles on Sunday in just over 2:30 so the long runs are building up now. Like you Dan I have only quickly skimmed through what I missed. Will have a read up later today
Hope everyones training is going well. I have a Half this weekend.i'm aiming for around 1:40 -1:45, but we'll see. The trouble with the LSR training runs at around 9:00m/m is that confidence of running 13 miles at over a minute a mile quicker is somewhat dented
Glad to hear you had a nice holiday, and goodluck with this weeks training everyone
Hess
lake - yes, that red wine kind of talks to you doesn't it, and it has a point: relaxing when not running seems to be an essential part of training. I've no idea about these predictors, although a few learned people at the Lucozade workshop were mentioning numbers with quite a bit of authority. I think they're based on experience, and I think from 1:49 to 3:47 makes some sense, given that you'd have done loads more training for 26 miles than 13. Re. the Spice Girls, well, I'm just a supporter of the British music industry...doesn't it seem about 25 years ago that they were flavour du jour and the country was discussing which was their favourite?
hess - hope the daughter's okay. You've hit the nail on the hit re. LSR training runs vs. running half-marathons: the speed's the thing. I think this Thursday's session on Nick schedule is talking to this ponit. I'm not sure how it will work but I am hoping that the occasion of the actual half marathon, + crowds, etc, etc, gets you moving a lot quicker. Its one thing to run at threshold on a cold January night alone, but hopefully its a lot easier when with hundreds/thousands of people. Hope the week goes well.
To recap this Week 8 is:
Mon – Rest
Tues – run of 45 - 50 mins with 3 sets of (3 min, 2 min 1 min) built into session. Aim to run the recovery very slowly for the same time as the effort. Keep the 3 mins @ threshold effort and let the 2 min and 1 min efforts feel a little faster. Have an easy 5 min jog/walk between each set. Therefore the main session looks like 3 min @ threshold/3 min easy, 2 min hard/2 min easy and 1 min hard/1 min easy all repeated after a 5 min jog.
Wed – Rest or a Pilates class if possible
Thurs – 45 mins with the middle 20 @ continuous threshold. Easy warm up and warm down.
Fri – 30 min recovery run. Use the Garmin to make sure the pace an heart rate are really easy. Remember, the aim of this run is to refresh the body not add to tiredness.
Sat – Rest & family time
Dan - it was ace
53:11. I did a little happy dance at the end, i was so pleased.
Hmmm... Tuesday looks.... interesting. I have that on my schedule too. Faster than hard... lucky my legs are feeling so fresh after having done the run of my life yesterday
Hi Dan - sounds like you had a very solid long run on Sunday, and especially well done for getting the MP bit going.
I'm still plugging on with my RW schedule, though I'm allowing some deviant behaviour on the basis that I can't do speed, so might as well get the distance in. Did my first 20 yesterday, and stuck to around 9:30 pace - it didn't feel especially slow! Slightly depressingly, I couldn't bring the pace up quicker than 9min miles except for short bursts, but it was good to get round in one piece.
I've got a half marathon at the weekend, too, but will settle for anything under 1:50 (after all 2 x 1:50 = 3:40 - simple .......
!!!).
Good luck with 3,2,1s tomorrow - I've got 3x1M, and don't know which I'd rather not do!
Hi Dan,
Just wanted to say well done with that long run. A really good effort and a very positive result. Picking the pace up to MP for the last 45 is great training for the marathon. You have used your energy systems very wisely. The first 90 mins used a more energy from your fat stores as the pace was easy. The last 45 pick up required a greater emphasis from the glycogen stores. All very relevant as we build endurance and educate the body to use its stored fats in training/racing.
Well done also for bouncing back. The illness pre SA now seems a long time ago. A great lesson for all! You don't lose fitness that quickly. The original illness pre Sa cost you a number of training days but the training completed earlier in the plan and pre Xmas was all good money in the bank. Once you started back gradually and sensibly the body soon caught up and you are now bang on target again. So the moral to all is dont panic if you get a cold - rest and get over it. trust your training and get better. Then start baxk gradually. You really will be fine.
Joddly, just waned to say that we are following the themes of the 3.45 RW schedule. However, I am personalising weekly aspects of the plan with our own interpretation of what is right for Dan. He runs 4 x per week not 5 and in light of the recent illness, travel and family life we have to get the balance right for Dan. I hope the variations are providing some useful tips and thoughts but I promise the theme is very similar.
Well done guys and keep up the good work.
Nick
i have to say I feel humbled that I can go running around Oxford dressed in funny tight lycra clothes in a world of my own and will stinking trainers and people congratulate me on it...
...so thanks for the postive vibes everyone.
helen - I told you that you would triumph - its amazing what the body can do when it knows the weight of the RW forum expectation is upon it?!? Seriously, well done, thats fantastic, I hope you feel you've achieved something.
joddly - as a free human a little deviance is surely allowed. 20 miles is a long way. I've only done 1 marathon and I didn't run more than 18 miles in the whole training, so in that context it really is quite far. having said that, I did get a shock at 20 miles in the actual race - and they say the body forgets pain. Anyway, you're at 20 miles and the race is, what, 9 weeks away? So I guess the speed will come as the body adjusts, but I'm not a coach so don't quote me...
And Nick, thanks for the postive comments, good to hear, and yes the mind is firmly focussed on the future weeks training, especially the Bath Half. I hope all's well with you and your many athletes in training.
I've now read back through properly
Sounds like you had a great time in SA. An old work colleague was from Cape Town. They're all sports mad over there he's the bliddy idiot that roped me into Triathlons!
My Sunday Long run was also beautiful. Along the towpaths in Herts and Bucks (I live on the borders so no I didn't traverse whole counties in my training!) The weather was glorious, first weekend in a while where I've not had to wear the tights, nice to give the old legs a bit of an airing, although probably not so pleasant for passers by
I have my target HM this weekend (Berkhamsted, so may see you there Joddly)so as usual have tinkered with Nicks Schedule (Sorry). Following on form my previous posts and in a slight panic, today I set out on a Threshold run. Clearly this Nick chap knows what he's talking about
As I ran 5miles in 38 mins Thats about 7:40m/m. It was hard (I think its supposed to be) but I still felt I had some more in the Tank. So I will now relax a little.
I will probably train again tomorrow, and Friday. Thursday is swimming day, and I think we are doing a timed 1k so no running for me on Thursday. I'm not stressing too much over my time for Sunday. I will be aiming for under 1:45 so may start out at 8:00m/m, and if feeling good pick up the pace for the second half (If you read this Nick, I'd appreciate your views on this stratergy).
Hope you all Train well. Sorry for rambling!
Phew!
Just got back from my 3x1m speedy type interval run (I'm doing the RW schedule as well joddly) and as I've just downloaded my Garmin I thought I might as well type a little as well (as the smell of pancakes wafts up the stairs). Pleased with the times - 7.22min, 7.14min & 7.11min, and although felt knackared after each rep there was enough left in the tank to recover a bit.
Even better than that, in my continuing theme of spring arriving, I unveiled my legs to the world today - running in shorts for the first time since October-ish. And I think the world loved them (my legs, not the shorts)!
Hess - 5m at 7.40m/m - wow, that's very quick. I'm reckon a race gives you a bit of extra 'adrenalin' pace, so you should be on for a good time for the HM.
I've got 9m recovery run tomorrow morning, bleary eyed before work, so I'd better stock up on pancakes now!
Bye
Aye up Danny Boy. How's life and all things running related with you? You seem to be over your pre-holiday problems and are running well again.
Keep up the good work and "You're all doing very well".
Lake - Don't know about my 5 miles at 7:40 look at your 3 mile times not bad at all!
Clearly building the endurance base over the last couple of months has not dented speed too much.
I'm doing a 7 mile recovery tonight ( I am using a mix of Nicks schedule, the RW Garmin Schedule, and my own adjustments due to the race on Sunday) Thursday will be swim training with intervals on Friday and a nice rest on Saturday!
Good running everyone - thought I must be on Sue's 3:15 thread at first!
I'm off games again with my third virus of the year, though feel sort of OK today so may go for a gentle tester after work. Then yet another re-jig will probably leave a medium-long run tomorrow, and mile reps / brisk 3M on Friday - or should theye be the other way round, with a half-M on Sunday...?
Hi Dan,
Keep healthy mate and no panic re life getting in the way. It is allowed to on occasions. Let me know if you need to re think the schedule a little. If short on time and tired just get a 30 min rec run under your belt to keep in touch with training. If not tired, but just short on time try 15 easy/15 @ threshold, still grat value and a good workout when busy.
Take care and keep healthy, Nick
Thanks Nick - its just one of those weeks and March will be busy (financial year end) but thats the same for many people as the training peaks, so I just need to be a bit more organised really. It will be fine, its planning more than anything.
fat face / rob - thanks for the message, all back on track really, can I just return the compliment and say how well I think you are doing? A model professional.
hess - this Nick chap does know what he's on about! Funny how the body can crank up a gear isn't it, and your run looked most satisfying. I know nothing about Berkhamstead - the race or the town - but I hope it goes well this weekend.
lake - 7.11 is a time, you're right, not often seen on this thread. Well done for introducing us to those digits, I am sure many pancakes are a just reward. One thought though: isn't '9m' and 'recovery run' a bit of a paradox?! Or maybe I'm just moving in a slightly different orbit.
Joddly - get healthy! especially if its your half this weekend. Stay calmer than I would in that situation and good luck with the week.
Its 11pm and I'm watching Question Time as I'm fairly sad and middle aged, but a brief update on today. Went out and did the 45 mins with 20 mins at threshold in the middle.
The threshold went off a bit quick, 7.08 for the first mile. I was caught in a dilemma: slow down or try to do this for 20 minutes. Well, I attempted the latter did this for 3 miles a bit slower than that, but it wasn't threshold, it was hard work and the slow last mile was welcome relief. Hmm.
Pacing, pacing, pacing.
Hi Dan,
Sounds like you are right on track despite work conspiring against you this week.
I also had to miss a run on Tuesday this week as I had to attend a work related 2 day conference with a dinner on Tues night. Not my idea of a fun evening at all.
I am one week behind on your programme Dan, and so did the 60 min with last 45 at MP tonight. It went good and I felt quite strong and comfortable despite felling bloated on conference type food and having literally sat on my ass for two full days struggling to remain conscious on some level.
I am hoping tonight's run will set me up well for this Sunday (2h 15 w/ 45 at MP) as I found last weeks straight 2 h 15 quite hard. Although I do understand why we do the long runs a bit slower, I sometimes find that trying to run slower leaves me more sore.
I'm not sure if it helped that I did something different and was listening to Dara O'Briain's recent stand up routine instead of the usual music. Intermittent laughter may have disrupted my breathing patterns. The people I passed en route must have thought "what's that mad runner grinning at?"
Good luck with whats left of the week - Hope you get out of work alive this week.
JLo
Mornin' all
No running for me yesterday or today - I'm saving my energy for Sundays race. It's not so much a taper, but rather a 'slam the brakes on', but it gets me in a good frame of mind for a hard push on Sunday having not done much for three days.
My plan (!) is to start off really slow (which I don't do normally) and I'm going to set my Garmin to alarm at 8.20m/m to keep me in check. I hope to finish the run in about 8.45m/m if I can, but I just want to hit a steady pace all the way thorugh.
Dan - as you correctly say "pacing pacing pacing". It's all about the pacing.
Joddly - hope you're feeling better & looking forward to Sunday
Hess - ditto for Sunday! 1.45 - wow. Go Go Go!
Can't help thinking we should be entering the 2012 Olympics relay event!
(Incidentally, has anyone seen how many forum posts fat face has made - I don't know how he has any time for running!)
Good runnnig everyone.
Jlo - it is a bit unnatural to go 'slow', especially when your body's starting to get to grips with marathon pace, but, as we all know, it makes a huge difference to the energy levels. I wonder if Dara O'Brien made you speed up or slow down. He was the entertainment at a big works awards do - I think he does a lot of corporate bashes and makes an absolute fortune - and he was very good. I'm a huge advocate of comedy/documentaries on long runs since it distracts me more than music.
lake - yes, the Olympics here we come. I had a few friends who were talking about getting good at archery and trying to get involved that way, but I think their training petered out. I am sure Sunday will go well.
Right, week 8 is almost over and Nick's put together plans for Weeks 9 and 10.
Of course, they are based around me, myself and I and the big factor here is the Bath Half on Sunday 15th March - the sunday of Week 10. I'm aiming to run this one fast - its all relative though - and so the schedules orient to that (as opposed to Reading on 29th March which I'm aiming to run at marathon pace).
Week 9
Sun - 2 hours 30 last 45 @ mp
Mon – Rest
Tues – 45 mins relaxed rec run. (recovering from Sundays longer run)
Wed – Rest or a Pilates class if possible
Thurs – 75 mins with 3 x 10 mins @ threshold built into the last 45 mins. Take a 5 min easy run rec between each block of work.
Fri – 30 min recovery run.
Sat – Rest & family time
Week 10
Sun - 90 mins with last 30 @ half marathon pace (remember you are doing Bath next weekend)
Mon – Rest
Tues – run of 45 - 50 mins with 3 x 7 mins built in @ 10k effort pace. Try to make these consistent and @ threshold or just above. Aim to have 3-4 mins jog rec between each block of work.
Wed – Rest or a Pilates class if possible
Thurs – 40 mins with 30 very easy and last 10 mins @ half marathon pace.
Fri – 15 - 20 min easy recovery run. Use the Garmin to make sure the pace an heart rate are really easy. Remember, the aim of this run is to refresh the body not add to tiredness. We want to be fresh for Sunday.
Sat – Rest & family time
Sun 15th March – Half Marathon !!!!
Oooh - a race! I've got Silverstone that weekend and I'm *really* looking forward to it.
Not nearly as scary as a 10k.
Dan - your pacing is nearly as rubbish as mine. Hope you learn quicker than I do!
Lake - your 1/2M strategy sounds an excellent idea - mind if I borrow it? I don't think it does you any physiological harm to "slam on the brakes" as opposed to tapering, but it's a psychological thing. At least that's what I'm telling myself as I'm still off running (five days now....).
Wotsit - I'm doing Silverstone too, and it looks a little bland. However, there will be a scary 10k there no doubt later in the spring. Very well done in your race the other day, by the way - it really did sound like a solid run.
Hess - may see you on Sunday. I'll be the one going out at a speed that makes you think "She'll never keep that up".... and you'll be right. (Obviously, I'll also be studiously ignoring my beeping Garmin, Lake, and expectorating copiously.......)
Oi, Dan - your email is bouncing me. I'm trying not to take it personally...
Joddly - I agree, Silverstone looks dull. I don't even care much for fast cars, so that side is doing nothing for me. I'm hoping that the dullness will encourage me to get round more quickly.
helen - my email, bouncing, that's most strange. It should work. I'll call up the boss of Yahoo and have words. I know what you mean about Silverstone. Its a race track and you go round a few times - however FLM and the sponsors have put a lot of money into it I think - or energy - to make it THE pre-London half. I will be smug wondering around Bath at that point. Or at least I hope I will. I've never run a 10K, but don't tell Nick that or he'll add it in!!
lake / hess / joddly - i was out today and wondering how those hardy souls running proper races were doing. Let us know...I hope it was a great day with loads of sun and not to hot - perfect conditions.
In terms of the 3.45 schedule, today was 2hrs 30 slow with last 45 marathon pace.
It seems weird talking about it when so many people are out running half marathons today, but in the spirit of full disclosure, here we go:
- it was fine. First 1.45 ok, around 8.50-9.00, but was able to crank it up (melodramatic language warning) to marathon pace in last 45 mins. Definitely tired in last 15 mins and the legs ached (and still do a bit) on finishing, unlike last week.
- Started dehydrated due to yesterday's lager intake, which has been shockingly low in the past 3 months, kind of coincadentially. Rembering the Lucozade workshop where they said "Run at 2% dehydrated and you will DIE AN EVIL DEATH" or something like that, I drank loads of water today which is not my thing.
- Will.not.forget.to.put.on.vaseline.again. Almost very disastrous.And painful.
- JL3, I think laughing isn't easy while running, probably because it uses oxygen involuntarily and the body isn't ready for that. But, its good for the soul.
Hope you all had fast, good, sunny, inspiring weekends. I've been on duty all day (wife can't shake her bug) so I'm crashing out asap.
Dan