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Amsterdam Mary & Half 17th Oct 2010
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37:30 is none too shabby Alan. I've never run a proper measured 10K race but have bust a gut a few times in training with a Garmin. Closest I've managed is a 40:15 so far but it's hard to tell how much difference adrenaline and competition make to such efforts.
I know when I race, I seem to be able to sustain really high heart rates that I probably couldn't keep up when training. Last week I ran the Brussels 20K in 1h23 and my HR was between 94-96% and I finished at over 98% (I did a full lab condition fitness test back in April, so my MHR has been properly measured).
I'm planning on having a couple of quiet weeks, with no really intense running and lower mileage, so when I start my 18 week programme, hopefully all the little niggles will have gone away and I'll be fresh again. Quite looking forward to the discipline of getting back to a training schedule really. Enjoy the sun all those going out running in the next day or two.
Tricky - I'm afraid i don't measure my heart rates so i couldn't tell you anything about that but i do know that i have never run anywhere near my race times in training runs, even tempo and threshold runs. I'm sure that adrenaline and the competition from other runners knocks a good amount of time off your results. Well done on your 20k time, 98% of MHR does sound very high too, especially on a longer race!
That is actually my 3rd 10k in 3 weeks as part of the Polaroid 10k series and i have one more next week. There is chat on here about running 2 or even 3 marathons in short succession so i had thought that 4 10k's in 4 weeks would be fine and a week would be plenty recovery between races. Obviously not for me! I have to admit my legs felt like lead last night and i don't think i've ever had to work so hard to convince myself to finish a race before! Maybe races in such short succession aren't possible for me. Or it could be that i'm still trying to keep my mileage up in preparation for the marathon training and i would normally have a lot more recovery between races, i don't know.
You mad people! 5800ft ascent, 98% heart rate and 37:30 10k!!!
Alan - Never mind heavy legs, mine would fall off if I ran that fast! High mileage won't help - I'd usually need a couple of days rest then ease back in to training - not that I've ever run anywhere near that fast!
My 10k PB 42mins something
will sort that out over the summer tho.
Sometimes doing lots of races at the same distance makes it harder mentally - your legs know what's coming by then!
What time you aiming for in Amsterdam?
Scorchio!
It's hot out there!
Just done 4 miles at variable pace. 1st mile sensible, 2nd mile too fast, 3rd mile OK, 4th mile completely overheated so legs fell off.
Happy weekend running everyone!
134 days to go
Sh@zza - if that question was directed at me, then it's 3h05.
Did 11km at lunchtime and it certainly was mucho mucho scorchio supremo babino. Lovely
I did a nice and easy 6.5M at lunch and it was gorgeous out there.
98% HR, now that sounds like a serious effort!
Alan_B, sounds like a top run on heavy legs. I did the Balloch 10k a couple of years ago, that was part of the Polaroid Series if I remember correctly. Finishing down by Loch lomond was rather pleasant.
20K race data here. My MHR is 183bpm.
My impression is, this is a fast thread. > > > > > > >
Sh@zza My 10k times were all around the 40-41 minute mark this time last year, i don't know for definite what caused the improvement but i really believe that my first delve into cross-country over the winter period there helped no end at getting my speed up!
If that question was aimed at me, i don't really know what time i'm aiming for at the moment as i haven't run a marathon before. I could say a time but i would just be plucking it out of the air!
Maybe some of the gurus on here could tell me what i should be aiming for?
JAP - The Balloch 10k is next week, i think i am going to be a broken man by the time that comes round! Our club is doing the West Highland Way relay for a bit of "fun" tomorrow and i've got a 14 mile leg up the side of Loch Lomond (followed by a well earned drinking session in Fort William!).
Tricky - That's absolutely incredible you're able to hold that % heart rate for so long. I think the elite runners would be proud of that commitment!
I'm still recovering from Edinburgh, seems two marathons within four weeks does tire my poor legs out after all! Did a measly 13 miles last week, rest on Monday, got a cracking 10 miler in Tuesday night in the cold, then Wednesday lunchtime and last night just felt like lead
Had another night off tonight, then have a 16 miler planned tomorrow but there's plenty of escape routes if I feel like slinking home early. I've just received my race number for a nice flat half marathon on 13th, so would rather be fully recovered for that than get a long run in this weekend.
This certainly is a speedy thread, very impressed!
Hi all, Ive just recently entered amsterdam full marathon my first marathon overseas. Please could any one answer the following for me:
A) Any recommendation on hotels near start/city
Thanks
Stephen, can't really recommend hotels as never been before but the drinks are some form of sports drink and water in cups every 5K i think.
Annoyingly for me its back to rest, patience and simple running/jogging. I picked up some bug last saturday (my sister and brother in law have also been ill) and felt a bit queasy that night but ran 10-12 miles last sunday without any bother.
All this week I've been out of sorts with worryingly some of the same symptoms I had last year when I had a 3 1/2 month period of post viral fatigue all summer post st alban's half marathon and swine flu combo (yes pretty grim, lol) Clearly something has effected me and while it's not anywhere in the same league as last time I'm just have to take it easy and see how things pan out I guess. I managed some light runs this week so if I can do that and build on it I should be fine.
Annoying and frustrating are words that come to mind but sense and patience will see me sorted.
Hope everyone has had/is having a good weekend
RS, doesn't sound much fun, take it easy and it will hopefully settle down nice and quickly. Still loads of time to get a full training schedule before Amsterdam.
Went out and did a stunning 18M along the canal & Thames this morning. Felt a little sticky, but not as bad as yesterday so just kept it at a nice comfortable effort level. It is runs like today that balane out all those dark, wet & cold runs through the winter. Very surprisingly my calves did not grumble at all today after my 5000m on the track yesterday afternoon.
Hi Stephen. I'll ask my running buddy tomorrow about the drinks as he did Amsterdam '09.
Haven't run this weekend apart from a little bit on the treadmill when I went to get new running shoes yesterday. But I've done loads of gardening and have exhausted myself two days on the trot. I'm guessing that pushing loaded wheelbarrows up long steep hills has some training benefit.
It must do - I weight myself on 'body composition' scales each day, and this morning my Body Fat% had dropped a wee bit again from yesterday and Muscle% was up.
This time next week, I start my training programme. Will anyone else be using a P&D scheme?
Start my training programme soon (12 weeks one) went out yesterday for nice easy 9miles. Today did track sessions with speed intervals. Only started to do these a few months ago before Brighton marathon and seemed to help get me into shape.
Thanks for reply so far on drinks at Amsrterdam, looks like I might bring my own was hoping it would b like london/brighton with known drinks on route.
RS: sounds like you have been in bad way, If Ive learnt anything over the yrs its listen to to the body. Just take it easy no hard runs I would suggest.
TD: Thanks for that look forward to what you find out
Knackered!!
Morning all, just back from holibobs - kids club and football camp for kids and sun loungers for myself and Mrs murph.
Welcome all newbies - Tricky, Adrian, Alan B and Stephen E.
Ran the 10k at Whipsnade Zoo yesterday, sadly they didn't release the cats so no new pb for me
. Was shown the way by my 7 year old who clocked 9:45 in the 2k fun run.
I finished a respectable third in the dads race, (thankfully wasn't a sprint as has caused too many injuries in the past), had to run with beanbag between knees - was leading with 10m to go and dropped bean bag - being bandy legged was a major handicap, but boys were still speaking to me so v happy with my result
Thanks Murph1, and well done on maintaining the running through the holiday!
Thanks JAP, will watch out for the hill. I'm not expecting a great time on that race anyway, my head is drifting from 10k mode towards this dreaded 26.2 mile mode.
RSalter - Definitely cups?? That will be really disappointing if it is, i still to this day can't work out how anyone expects me to drink from a plastic cup while trying to run at the same time! I hope you get back to full fitness again soon.
Carrot - Another race, very impressive! I hope it goes well.
Stephen - I'm still looking for accommodation as well, will let you know when i find somewhere.
Cheers for the comments folks
I ran for 20-25 mins this morning, well very very easy pace and I didn't have a bad reaction which is a good sign. Last time I couldn't even do 15 mins jogg without severe nausea to begin with but that was after a good helping of swine flu after a half marathon, lol
I don't even know if this is the same thing I had last time but I definitely don;t feel too bad and all I can do is be sensible and patient and hopefully it'll pass soon.
JAP - yeah there's plenty of time, I'll just use June to get sorted and forget about mileage etc.
ALan - yeah the idea of cups annoys me but then they had cups in the watford half and that was probably the race I enjoyed the most. More of an issue in a marathon I guess. I actually think I drank "too" much in London.
Murph - well done on your race! Was there plenty of elbowing going on? lol
Have had a bit of time to catch up with the thread now
RS - sounds horrible mate, take it easy as Jap says plenty of time to sort out the miles so wouldn't push it now. There were a few fallers in the dads race, none due to my actions I hasten to add.
I am with you and Alan B on drinking from cups, really can't get to grips with it and its my biggest worry about Amsterdam.
Shazza - good work on the other races at Cape Wrath, while you must have been gutted re the marathon it shows you are in good shape for a sub 3 at the Dam.
Carrot - must have felt good to exorcise the demons in Edinburgh especially given conditions.
Jap - top work bringing home 700 people, can't believe you didn't have a celebratory shandy though
. Out of interest what is you pb for 10k, the winner at Whipsnade finished in 30:05, the fastest time of any 10k race I have been in, so wondered how you would compared - I had him in my sights for a while then someone fired the starter gun.
Tricky - very impressed with 2 marathons in a month, what time are you looking for in Amsterdam.
Great to have so many on the thread, should be a good party afterwards.
Stephen/ all - the drinks in Amsterdam are AA Energy Drink, a sugary Dutch brew I am familiar with. Didn't check if it was in cups or bottles but I know they do a 33cl bottle with plastic screw lid and I would be surprised if it was anything other than this being used. I'll check again with my friend who ran last year (and will be coming again this year).
Murph - two marathons in a month (2 weeks!) is certainly not recommended. I got my best time in the first one (Paris 3h12). Am aiming for 3h05 in the 'Dam. I've lost a bit more weight (unfortunately) since April as I am adjusting to my new life as a Gluten Intolerant person. Just two days before Paris I worked out what all the stomach problems I had been suffering from were caused by, so all my nutrition plans for the race weekend were really screwed up and I was almost too scared to eat anything.
So during the race itself, I could feel fatigue setting in as early as 23km. My stretch goal was 3h10, so to battle with tiredness for almost half the race, I was very pleased to only be 2m14s off. And that's why I'm pretty confident to go for 3h05 in October. I'm a bit lighter and am not being plagued by bad guts anymore, so I think I can train a bit harder if work/ family continue to allow for it.
Training starts today! Well actually it started yesterday but it was a rest day so it didn't really count
3-4 miles on my way home with my rucksack. Hope it's not as wet as last week's run home.
I normally take my own drink as unless you can train with it you're not going to know how you'll react to it on the day. I don't like cups either but I'm now practised in the art of tipping the cup into my water bottle while still moving. TBH this is probably a lot easier at 11 min. mile rather than 8 or 9 like you speedy lot!
130 days to go
Afternoon all
I'm having Marathon dilemas!!!
OK, confession time, I've signed up for Snowdonia marathon as well (30th Oct). If following Tricky or anyone else's advice doing both would be stupid so...
Plan A - Amsterdam - hit the P&D and track and go all out for a very optemistic 3hrs
Plan B - downgrade to 1/2 in Amsterdam and do full in Snowdonia.
I'm probably gonna stick with Amsterdam but a bit tempted by Snowdon - having been defeated by the hills at CapeW I sort of want to have another go and its fairly similar in terms of total ascent (cept a bit steeper!)
I'm wont make a decision any time soon, off for a week of mountains in Slovenia next week then will start my P&D schedule properly, it will most likely come down to how realistic a 3hr attempt is looking after a couple of months training and whether I can cope with a summer of much needed speedwork or decide to venture off road and uphill a bit more. Hope I'm not being too much of a traitor...!
Cups...
Not too keen. When I did Berlin a couple of years back they had energy drinks in cups - both some sort of sports drink and red bull 
How anyone can do redbull 20miles into a marathon is beyond me! I went for the sports drink and ended up in a bit of a sticky mess!
Happy 1st week training Nemo!
Did my first track session last nite since about 2 months ago, felt good to run a bit quicker but a bit of a shock to the system, will venture out later and see what the damage is!
My friend *thinks* it was cups not bottles... AA Isotone drink.
Sh@zza - maybe I wasn't clear. For me, chasing two fast mara times within 2 weeks is a stupid goal. I got a PB in the 1st mara (11 mins off) and in the 2nd mara, I ran at the same pace to half-way, just to see how far i could go with it. My legs were shredded at that point and it was pretty painful.
BUT, my only goals for London were to finish and have lots of fun. Even though I stopped and did little walks 27x in the 2nd half, I had the most fun ever in a race. Most of that was due to the fact that VLM is such an extraordinarily well supported race, not something you can rely on for Snowdon mara. But there was no pressure to perform.
However, in Snowdonia there's a couple of killer hils to think about which provide a pressure all of their own. But if you don't go too hard in Amsterdam, then maybe you will be fresher for the 2nd one, but you certainly won't be 'fresh'. We would only be 'normal' people if we didn't consider taking on huge challenges - these things define our characters, no?!
Hello all - hopefully will be doing this one this year - deferred place from last year. Hiya Tricky.
Shazza - I did something similar myself last year - I did Paris 2009 as my first marathon having started running the October before with every intention of using it as a LSR.. I then did FLM three weeks later and was slightly slower it was a great experience and I loved the crowds at London who were so so supportive. I am no way as fast as Tricky who is a real speed merchant but have a pretty quick recovery time which I think is important - there is no way you will be fresh for the second marathon. I have ended up with a reoccurring injury which occurred just after FLM it may or may not be related. If you do both I would think about it carefully as its not worth having time out with injuries if you can delay and do say an October and Spring marathon instead and get really good times in those instead having given your body time to recover between the two..
Murph, my 10k pb is 33.28, so i would not have seen the winner at whipsnade for too long either
Nemo, is that a P&D schedule by any chance? Not too sure what to make of the 1st day of a schedule being a rest day.
sh@zza, personally I would aim to get in the best shape possible and give Amsterdam a real go, then just take snowdon as easy as you need to to let the legs feel relatively comfortable, then you can enjoy the views and experience.
Drinking out of cups. At New York they had the big paper cups. If you pinched the top together it forms a narrow spout which i did not have any problems drinking either water or energy drink out of. Unfortunately if you try this with plastic cups they split and it goes everywhere.
I too am signed up for the Amsterdam marathon. I must find an avatar of a tortoise or some similarly slow animal as I was most likely the slowest on the Paris 2010 thread.
Hoping for an improved time in Amsterdam; training recommences this weekend.
Shazza - I think JAP is right, train hard for Amsterdam and run Snowdon relaxed. The closest I've run 2 marathons together is 2 months and I doubt I'd even do that again to be fair but horses for courses.
Hi Elizabeth
JAP - I've just got the P & D book and I like the look of the schedules. They have a rest day or cross training on a monday which suits I guess but the i like the shape of their schedules. Track session tuesday, mid-week long run wed 11-15, easy running thurs, 10 miles(ish) on friday which could be mara pace, easy running sat, LSR sunday. I like the look of that really.
27 min run for me tonight, nice easy pace, felt good actually and seem to be ok post run but not out the woods yet, one step at a time (fingers crossed)!