Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Jooligan said:

    Ric Suicidal first 400m? Sounds like every XC race ever :D
    Much needed return to runless Monday for me today. Just a bike commute & steady swim for my active recovery.
    Got home to 2 HM race packs. Wokingham (893) & Wrexham which is this Sunday :)
    Hope my XC spikes heel blister has healed by then. The road shoes weren't aggravating it last week but it still had skin on til Saturday pm! Much worse pushing off uphill so no real concerns with either of those races :smiley:
    I wonder if that gut busting commitment is the reason why there's so many runners who excel at XC but are relatively modest elsewhere?
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited February 12
    Thought I'd share last year's training leading up to my HM PB at Wokey last year.

    Mon-Fri each week was easy effort apart from 5x90s strides on the Friday immediately before the race.
    Feb 10th I was 1st at parkrun then 11th I had Dursley Dozen + XC
    Feb 17th a slightly less gung ho parkrun but a good tempo effort nevertheless (for 6th) then Wokey on the 18th.
    The following week I ran Wrexham as a MP training run. The races are reversed this year so I'll see what the weather holds & how I feel Saturday before committing.
    Just 8M today but pushed for time so a lot quicker than usual so I skipped the lunch run in favour of timing the kids on a mile. 80% of them had improved since we last did it just before Christmas :)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SG - i did a very windy worthing 1/2 as part of my Brighton build up Sunday, there was a dasher (wool ?) a few minutes up the road from me. Also did Chichester as a Brighton build up session the previous week (as 5m, 10k, 9m), followed by 13m monday and 10m tuesday. So not an ideal 1/2 mara taper.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I had something looking similar to that last December Jools.

    I still wonder about mileage and volume in relation to race speed.
    For HM's I once ran a XX minute job off a 100 mile week, and a faster one off about half of that.

    Marathons were even odder. I did a X:XX off around 30 mpw and six months later I went ten minutes faster off about half of that.
     
    That was two sessions of 5 x half mile off one minute recovery, and one long run each week.

  • Cheers Joe yeah it went ok in the end. TR, I trust the last 3k at Chichester was less breezy than last year?

    Regents Pk today for 4 x 2k up and down the drag with 90 secs recovery. Came in at 6.23, 6.18, 6.17, 6.20 might be still slightly short, but happy with that little set. No toilet issues with just Green tea all morning. 
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I'm just chuckling at the amount of red (races) on Jooligan's chart.

    Ric, were you supposed to go off and check the actual race times before publishing that post?

    Nice sessions from SG/SC

    No running here.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Disappointing united game and obligatory tough sleep at a premier inn (get me upgrading from Travelodge.
    Odd day of being fresh after track. More tired after a sleep...holding on up to and through the game yet by mid night not wanting to sleep 😁

    A weird set up, almost American motel stylee where a lot of the rooms are separate, quite some distance from the main building and you can literally park one metre outside your door. If ever there was a place for shenanigans, this would be the setup!

    Paper thin walls job. Hearing tv and taps from next door!!


    No sessions jools? That explains the high racing. Something has to give..

    Fits in with some old boy on the sub 3 marathon fb group (yeah good question why I'm on there), saying he didn't go over 13 miles for a long run. But he raced a tonne load and did a 13 late sat and also a 13 a bit faster early sun. Think his point was you don't need to "waste half a day" doing your long run.

    Id say one long run is preferable to 2x medium longs back to back though!!

    Simon. Fast reps and the dreaded and rare to me 2ks! Still, better than 2mile reps!

    Ric, agree with reg. You have to put the times!
    Otherwise itd be like me saying yeah i once did a half marathon off a couple of runs a week.
    Oh but it was a 1hr 41😄😄

    As long as you don't give it what a guy i know does and insist that he never did more than 25-30miles a week for his incredible times.
    No chance.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    TR. 
    Us dashers get about!
    Surprised wool hasn't been on to post about it. 
    Sounds like you're going well if you're using races as sessions. That's a pro build up.

    Hope wokey isn't windy!
    At least the longer the race the less uncomfortable the pace is i suppose.
    That mile into heavy wind at gosport was painful. Especially on a completely straight route with the wind head on!!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Reg Wand said:
    I'm just chuckling at the amount of red (races) on Jooligan's chart.

    Ric, were you supposed to go off and check the actual race times before publishing that post?

    Nice sessions from SG/SC

    No running here.
    No Reg. If I put the times I ran down, it might be regarded as showing off.

    I must admit, that six months of twice a wk 400m wu, flat out sessions, 400m wd. Plus one long run worked a treat. Needs a base of volume first though.

    Ric, agree with reg. You have to put the times!
    Otherwise itd be like me saying yeah i once did a half marathon off a couple of runs a week.

    Ok then, the 100mpw HM job was 75:40 and the faster one 73:43.
    The marathons were 2:56 & 2:46.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    No Reg. If I put the times I ran down, it might be regarded as showing off.

    I must admit, that six months of twice a wk 400m wu, flat out sessions, 400m wd. Plus one long run worked a treat. Needs a base of volume first though.

    Ric, agree with reg. You have to put the times!
    Otherwise itd be like me saying yeah i once did a half marathon off a couple of runs a week.

    Ok then, the 100mpw HM job was 75:40 and the faster one 73:43.
    The marathons were 2:56 & 2:46.

    Stop showing off, Ric.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Lol!

    You did a 2:46 marathon of 15 miles per week Ric? How long for? what else were you doing?

    Good session Simon (as usual :smiley:)

    Not feeling the love today, despite the weather. Headed out for a progressive tempo along the canal, with a 7:20, 6;49, 6:30, intending to wind it up to the last mile being sub 6, but it quickly became obvious my legs were shot and I had to creep along just to get back to the office!  Hey ho - plenty of time to recover for Wokingham, and a tempo today wouldn't have changed anything for then anyway.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I did a 3:40 marathon off 0 miles per week going through halfway in 1:37 :D The naivety of youth made me speed up at halfway because I thought I may as well go for sub 3 as I was still feeling easy! Three miles later I felt like both my legs were full of lead.
  • I listened to the Let's Go Running podcast with Jasmin Paris and the spine race.

    Three things:

    1) The hosts are weird. One, Shaun,  is an ex GB international 

    https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=402

    and the other, Jermaine, a chaser

    https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=1025

    and they are chatting about a sub-75 half. Now Shaun has done that, the poor chaser has no cluse how long a half is at all!

    2) Jasmin seems a really nice person and a good interview. There was almost nothing said about female vs male other than a few words "the gap does seem to get smaller as distance increase"

    3) I have no clue how a race such as the spine gets past a health and safety check. Jasmin says she was hallucinating. The guy in second place, Eugene Roselló Solé, had to withdraw and call for emergency help. It seems common sense to enforce a certain number of hours rest each day, so the athletes can get dry, have some food and sleep etc. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 13

    There used to be a poster on RW (Earl someone?), who posted a very similar progression to Ric on the 100 and 50miles HM stat.

    The other one, the 15mile Marathon one sounds more an oddity, a short period (6 months mentioned, but maybe that was the 30mile week), that like Ric says relies on a base.

    The big question, is why on earth would you attempt a marathon off such low miles!?


    And ultras? The DNF possibility must increase monumentally.

    I think I'd prefer to go down in distance not up.... not sprints and MD obvs, just a tour of 5ks.

    However that's going you can normally rely on a minute or so range!


    Bus - probs just your body keeping your energies for the race. And I can't imagine trying to put pace in at lunchtime is much fun. I had a spell I used to do the big run at lunch, and I used to come back to work ruined for the last few hours!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭


    Looks like Cabbage Patch 10 is back! Stragglers taking it on completely (rather than helping out)

    Someone posted it on a random fb group, picked up by our club's board, and can't find any details around it, but sounds good!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Interesting..

    It's a non-stop race Philip, which part of what makes it so tough :smile: Being able to function on little sleep is regarded as part of the challenge - and helps explain how a new-mother was able to cope :smiley: Poor old Eugene was only a few miles from the finish when he had to be rescued, partly because of hypothermia as he hadn't moved for some time.

    Something like the Dragon's Back has stages and is a cumulative race, but there are still plenty of risks involved.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Simon - much less windy, was a bright day. Trouble is it was real cold, -4 when i parked up. Probably the first time ive done a warm up to warm up !

    SG - was proper windy sunday, didnt even have IoW to act as a windbreak like Gosport and Portsmouth get. I sometimes do an mlr run home and another back the next day, i did 15 home tonight and will do 10 or 11 back in the morning. But i still do a proper long run.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 13

    Humidity will always be my least favoured condition - and one I seriously watch these days - wouldn't dare race long in the summer, or moderately long/offroad.

    But wind is a killer too. But at least it's generally not as strong for the whole race. You get respite.

    Club have a slightly odd mob match at my local parkrun on Saturday where you only score for times of 28mins and slower.

    Fair enough, it rewards the slower peeps, when normally they don't really get a look in.

    Was very very slightly tempted to turn up, if only to give the Vaporflys more than 2miles of use before the next race! But probably better to stick to the initial plan of a Friday sesh of faster than race pace (will look up a relevant sesh tomorrow night!)

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

     
    ps, PO10 race count up to 156, so they've added 8 over the weekend. Good guys :)

    Still want to see how many of the 240 we can weasel onto there.

  • The Bus said:
    Interesting..

    It's a non-stop race Philip, which part of what makes it so tough.
    I get that but you could still make a rule that says you need to spend say 4 hours at a checkpoint between 6pm and 6am and you would still have runners competing for 20 out of 24 hours but it would ensure that everyone gets some sort of food and rest. I did a few similar things in the army (5 day exercises) and even they saw that you needed some sort of time off. I appreciate it is up to the individuals and they can have as much or as little rest as they want but I think the organisers should set some sort of rules for safety.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    How does it work with those 24hour track races, the likes of Sam A do?


    Is that literally, an on feet for 24hours job? Or are there regular times of sitting down/lying, or even a quick sleep?

    Similar question Endure 24? Jill at Dashers is doing it as a pair as it stands! A shame, as our "fast 8" seems to currently be a "fast 4" with doubts over 2 injured, and 2 completely free places, and our fastest guy starting to bandy about thoughts of "is this worth it", which is worrying...

    I'm up for it whatever the squad is like. For one thing I'm £70 in! And I guess if you're not competitive, it's more pleasurable, than trying to storm a 2am tempo out :s

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    The big question, is why on earth would you attempt a marathon off such low miles!?

    Simple answer SG. I knew I could do it. 

    The six months had only key training elements in it. So no wasted efforts.

    Talking of efforts. Today I did a repeat of a run I did one month back. 8 miles mainly off road. Despite being more mud about, on this occasion, I was over twenty seconds per mile faster.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Track 24 hour rules, solo: run for 24 hours. If you leave the track for more than 3 hours you are disqualified. The direction changes every 3 or 4 hours. You must provide at least one person to count your laps. Advised to have a back up team to provide food and drink. Most people snack on the run. Right up your street, SG...not.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 13


    Haha, don't worry Aley, i'm not having my mid life running break down just yet :D

    Wouldn't dare!


    So local legend Dom went through with his against all advice at any time (let alone 10-11 days before a race), 10mile solo HM run.

    He uses a 1/4mile flat road loop, and put in what I can only describe as an incredible shift of 60:29!

    6.03 pace, which I think a lot of us on here would baulk at trying to match in training.

    He has an incredible ability to put race effort into solo training, and by rights, with that, should be looking to take his 1hr 21 half to at least a low 1hr 19.

    For most of us, we'd probably expect to take a couple of mins off through race conditions too, but most of us would find it near impossible to match race pace for such high volume outside of...a race ;)

     Will be interesting to see.

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    That's some training run. I did [email protected]+25% which was quite enough thanks.
    I used to do sessions & race prodigiously SG but I now only do a session in a week without a race - parkrun is not a race. In Nov 17 I found that slowing my weekday runs down meant I was faster in races hence achieving PBs from parkrun up to 20M in 2018 in spite of turning 49 & having 15 years of running behind me. 
  • I'm more flabbergasted that he can do 40 goes around the same loop.

    I'm back up and running with nearly 59 sore but easy miles last week. My eye has healed up, ribs still not quite there but I can sleep.

    I am going to the Village Bakery Wrexham Half (Jooligan in attendance) on Sunday and tackling it as a long  marathon pace effort. I will throw in a parkrun the day before hopefully. I will then do another week of reasonably high mileage before cutting back for a proper half tilt at Newport on March 3rd, weather permitting.

    Sorry to hear the foot is still causing grief Reg.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    That's good, Muddy.

    Things have changed in how I view steady state longish runs. 

    I looked in a diary from thirty years back and noted where in one year I went from 1:24 to 1:16 for the HM.

    Everything was on road!
    The long runs were up to 17 miles on a really tough course, and I pushed the effort the whole way.
    The next day was half the distance but damn near flat out pace.
    Then an easy day.
    Then a session of flat out half miles with half mile recovery.
    Then a rest day followed by... :o

    I'm going to have to go and have a lie down. It worked, then.

    Actually, it formed the base of all my best results for the next decade.
     If I wasn't injured, that is.

    I'm going out later on the bike. I think I'll take in that old loop and get the Garmin to work on it. 

    Conditions have brightened right up. Looks almost spring like. Another couple of weeks like this and I'll be back to work.
  • I guess with Dom it is a confidence crisis. 

    His half PB is 81:14 last year at Wokingham, https://www.strava.com/activities/1413958885. Relatively sensible race, first mile 5:59 which is not out of this world but put in some 6:2x and a 6:31 for mile 11 to average 6:13 overall. 

    An experienced runner with a good coach would look at that time and the training over the last year and conclude he is in better shape now than he was last year so he will go sub-80, but he isn't sure so needs that mental boost of knowing he can do 10 miles in 60.xx and so that leaves him 20 minutes for the last 3.1. Trouble is, as we all know, that 60.xx in training 10 days out does take the edge of the race.


  • Glad you like the podcast PMJ - the hosts are quite interesting, I have spoken to Shaun before, nice guy. Its the only podcast on running I listen to, the other is Christian O'Connell's one from his new breakfast show in Melbourne which he has done since last June, really funny.

    TR - Sounded just right for me, love it cold and frosty!

  • Glad you like the podcast PMJ - the hosts are quite interesting, I have spoken to Shaun before, nice guy. 

    It was a very odd conversation. You have an athlete, Shaun, who has run 66 minutes for a half and as recently as last year has run a low 31 10k. He is talking to Jermaine who is probably was a better athlete (sub 3:40 1,500m at his best) but is clearly a middle distance athlete (but still has a sub-30 minute 10k). The conversation is about running a half marathon and it will be the first time for Jermaine (who doesn't even know how long the half is, he just assumed a half was twice a 10k) and it seems to be a race and the goal is they both break 75.

    It almost sounds like one of SGs "I met a bloke who says he ran 8 seconds for 100m when he was a kid" tales but you have to assume he has a reasonable chance of going sub 75.
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