Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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Comments

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    I thought Ric had a netball skirt on.

    Going back to possible races, I just requested a GFA free place at the Royal Berks 10k located very close to that picture of Lit et al. Some pretty generous qualifying times offered.

    M open sub – 35.00 / V40 – 37.00 /V50 40.00 / V60 44.00 / V70 52.00

    F open sub – 40.00 / V40 – 42.00 /V50 46.00 / V60 52.00 / V70 60.00


    False. They are shorts.

    By the time you're my age you'll be as bald as a chimps arse. True.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    RicF said:False. They are shorts.

    By the time you're my age you'll be as bald as a chimps arse. True.
    You're never going to get to see the top of my head anyway Ric so don't worry about it :D
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    RicF said:False. They are shorts.

    By the time you're my age you'll be as bald as a chimps arse. True.
    You're never going to get to see the top of my head anyway Ric so don't worry about it :D
    You are aware of the invention called step ladders Reg?  :)

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    It's one of those races that are big on quantity and very short on quality. Still mustn't look a gift horse and all that so have duly applied for the free place :D .

    Will decide much nearer the time whether it suits me to run it and put up with the logistical hassle big races always bring. 

    Good bantz Ric and Reg; 2-1 to Reg at the moment isn't it😁
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Still a good call up Pete. Good luck with that.

    Well done Simon on getting pissed at economical rates and of course congrats on the racing.

    Dean, no need for the best of luck so I'll wish you the best of skill. Seems more appropriate.

    For some reason the previous exchange with Reg reminded me of an advert that someone posted a few years back, where for a tenner, the means to be taller could be attained.

    Not only that, but the heights could be chosen as in either 2, 4 or 8 inches taller.

    Seems plenty took up the offer but were somewhat put out to find that the solution took the form of a couple of house bricks.  :o
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    That really did actually make me laugh out loud, though as  PORG myself, I am on Ric's side on this one :smile:

    That's brilliant news Pete - congratulations!

    Dean - that video was great. You've got some leg speed that's for sure!!!!! Good luck with the final!

    Must look up that 10k GA Reg - even on current form I can go sub 40 for 10k (just!!!!)
  • Unfortunately I don't quite qualify for that Berks 10km just yet. Hoping to justify that in the near future though.

    Love the thread snaps. I'm sure we'll all be at another race together soon enough.

    All thoughts of a recovery week are long gone then, after monstering around Battersea Park this eve. Session was 3 x 3 miles marathon pace. Really pleasingly to see MP HR spit out sub 6 min miles (just about).

    5:58, 5:56 and 5:57 for the 3 mile sections. Had a couple of people to run with which really helped. 16 miles total for the evening @ 6:37. Confidence is slowly building. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Should be rising quickly joe, id say. You'd be able to blag into that race, well not even really blag (that'd be me talking last summer 5ks and hoping they buy 5k x2 +1min!. Just quote the recent half.

    Pete i can see you buying a gb vest and proudly writing "big pete from the sg - moraghan thread" on the back 😎

    Off for what is the shortest track sesh i do in a bit. 300s and not many reps
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    PORG! I just learnt a new word.

    Got into the 10k race, chap just shared a discount code. I can see why they are doing it. 1600 runners last year and as Pete says, not much depth to the field at the sharp end. I am going to assume there will a lot more quicker runners this year who fancy a fast and free race.

    Joe, 3x3 @ MP, nice recovery run :D You're definitely in the form to run a PB at London. I can see finishing somewhere in the 2:36-2:38 range. As at Thursday night, your recovery week is more than I have done in a full week since last autumn!
  • Hi All

    Thought I'd just pop this on here - if you want to watch the race, it's from 3.09.30 onwards - as a bonus you get some low quality Czech high jump action too. No line up shots either like the glam boys in the 800!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9XNMNR20GU

    Dean's 1500 heat will be on this afternoon

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yep, well known Reg. 
    PORG - Person of ridiculous gimpitude.

    Bit harsh though i'd say.

    Based on Joe's 1.12 half prediction, surely sub 2.30 should be minimum knockings though? ;)
    I jest. Put a sub 2.40 in and that's super tidy.


    In keeping with the recent short and sweet Fridays, I did the 6x300 - the shortest track session I do.

    Embarrassingly, for the first time I noticed there was actually a 100m sprint line sign, so I had been doing the 300s from the right place :)

    Anyway, old style 3mile warm up, rather than the usual 2miles these days, and came out

    53-52-52-52-53-53

    (second one threw a 51 at me during, but on looking now it's a 51.99, so despite usually not doing round ups (as strava doesn't), i will for that one!

    Tough. Legs are clinging on like treacle near the end, despite not necessarily feeling like going full out.

    Will have to properly start the 5k plan sequence in a few weeks, rather than just plucking sessions at random from it, just have to decide whether to do 1 a week with a tempo, or 2 a week.



  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    2 a week SG.

    When do you run at 5:15 or 5:30 mile pace?

    It's either slower than wished for race pace, or so much faster than race pace it's irrelevant.

    What I'm saying is chugging out tempos on a flat track at 5:50's won't mean you can race at 5:30 pace, and smashing 200's in 33 seconds (4:25 mile pace) or 300's in 52 seconds (4:38 mile pace)
    that won't work either.

    You need to work out the pace you can race a distance at, and then spend time running at 'that' pace.

    How you do that is half the game.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    The continuous tempos earn their corn for the 5-10mile races, whereas the 5kand down stuff need that extra speed.

    I always found 400s were hard to keep down to 5k pace, so anything shorter was really struggling.

    Aley told me last year to look at pushing faster reps out. But in fairness that's the longer 5k reps. Perhaps 800-1000m.

    I dare say when i properly get going with the sequence the numbers will be more realistic albeit obvs still a bit faster.
    Maybe mile reps at 5k pace will be more the ticket.

    For the last couple of weeks though just storming some speed felt good. I dare say a lot of runners do short reps way faster than they'd dream of racing.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Makes sense SG, but much easier to say you were in full training for your expected 4'59 at next week's Ealing Mile😉
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    SG, 

    I have a ratio of speed of 200's (one per minute) which has worked perfectly to gauge what time I could run a 10k. 

    That is, if I could average say 30 x 38 seconds for a set of 200m, where the fatigue gradually creeps up over the course of the session. I could safely divide the 38 seconds by 0.92 and come up with the speed I could do the race in.

    38/0.92 = 41.30 seconds per 200m. That's 34:25 for a 10k.

    It works. 

    I'm planning a session tomorrow. 41 seconds average would be handy. However, I'm prepared to be surprised...badly!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Ric Is that 30x200m in 30 minutes?
    Surely that gets harder as you get slower since the recovery is both actually & proportionally shorter. For what range does the 0.92 factor work?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Is it really worth going to a track to run 6 x 300m? Surely you neeed to do 20 odd to make it worth while or just chuck some strides into a normal run.



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019

    Reg - it's a nice shorter one. Sometimes when I head for a session knowing it's an hour job it's a real case of arrrsee.  (although I obvs wouldn't go to a club session paying £4.90 to do this one!)

    Not sure how hard you do strides, but I certainly wouldn't be able to do 20 at the pace I did today!


    In fairness today's session is session 8 on the 5k plan. The second one in the "800 pace" section. 10x200, 6x300, and 5x400 the 3 sessions at that pace.

    I'm definitely not sure 5x400 at 800 pace is actually doable even off the highest rest of 3mins!

    The "meatier" sessions, are mostly in the 5k and 3k sections, where you're typically putting in about 4miles worth for the former, and 3miles for the latter.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Did that calculation work a lot of times Ric? Or just the once? 

    Otherwise, could I just say that my 33 for 200s is whatever percentage of what I did twice for 5k last summer and thus is my rule of thumb? Or is there some wider science?

    It's funny, because Moz was big on training to race pace, and people on here at the time would do way quicker reps than their achieved performances, which I didn't really do.

    However, most runners seem to do their short reps hard  - way too hard in Dashers club sessions, and smashing yourself apart,  I don't see what any benefit of doing the shorter reps intentionally slower would give. You have longer reps to learn and sit at the right pace - there's no taking liberties with those.

    (without unlocking the old 200s debate again!)
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    I'd definitely keep the tempo in SG. My coach runs a 13.50 5k on the track and he does a 10m tempo every Friday. Then a quicker rep session on a Tuesday. 10 x 400m at mile pace is a good one!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    He must be pretty high up the rankings with that!

    Need to work out what's what soon, as that relay was at one stage, miles on the horizon, and now it's done and dealt with.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    13th last year and I know he had only just started focusing on the 5k.

    https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=6495

    Always good to get a race plan SG to get the mid focused. I'm starting to get a nice early summer planned with some track 5 and 10ks before j put the big marathon training in again for Berlin
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Jooligan said:
    Ric Is that 30x200m in 30 minutes?
    Surely that gets harder as you get slower since the recovery is both actually & proportionally shorter. For what range does the 0.92 factor work?
    Not really. I should have added that the session demands that the ability to run the final two reps 10% faster than the average of the others should be retained.

    That doesn't mean you have to. But if you can't do that, it means the session was too intense.

    The session is really 'speed endurance'. The 'speed' is faster than steady state, the 'Endurance' is how many can you do before feeling like you have to force the pace. 

    When I do the session, I just leave the watch running. I have a glance at the watch as I cross the 200ish line. That gives me enough info. I then get ready to take off again when the 'minute' crops up. It's an easy way to keep count.

    I'm not too fussed about micro details on timings. Near enough is good enough. It's the principle that matters. 

    Obviously this 'one a minute' can't work for slow runners, since it gets to the stage where there isn't any recovery at all. I might have got there myself, we'll see. 20 seconds ish between efforts is ok. 

    SG, that 0.92 ratio is a resultant factor from the session. I ran the session, had a good idea of what the average was, did a race soon after and cross matched the figures. After enough results, I could see a pattern.

     My best session was averaging just under 37 seconds - 33:21 & 33:40, 10k's on consecutive weekends.

    But it isn't is a tool to engineer a result. Just gives an idea of form.

    Also it isn't necessary to go to the limits of effort for a speed session for it to work.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Ok then, today I decided to do a 'bike ride'... instead of doing just 'that' session.

    Crowded track with Football training, British Military Training, Boxing Training and a plethora of breeders with an assortment of shit machines blocking the inside lane.

    Strangely it seemed I was the only one actually using the track for running on.

    Results. Went in a bit deep to start with. Very quickly adjusted to doing one rep each 1:15 and noted the time it took me from start of warm up to feeling ok, was 30 minutes.

    Ended up with 25 reps in 30 minutes. Times all over the shop, paces down to 5:10 miling, but on reflection reckon I'm good for mid 38 minutes 10k.

    Also about 3kg over ideal race weight, so something to work with. Six weeks until Staines.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Breaking News.

    I think we have a WORLD CHAMPION in our midst.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cool - can't wait to see the report :smile:

    Another shit parkrun for me today. Just felt horrible most of the way round, and kept feeling like my heart rate was going through the roof (not according to the Garmin though). A few seconds quicker than last week (not on the incorrect official results though) but came at the cost of some very violent retching just past the finish line, having gone into the red to keep a small bunch from overtaking on the last corner. Sometimes, and despite the fact they are all lovely volunteers, the last thing you need is someone bellowing "keep moving" when you are double-up and trying desperately not to vomit over them! First V50 and 1st male on age grading is the best I can take from it this week!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Nice work Dean! Look forward to the video and report! A very big well done!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    Jooligan said:
    Ric Is that 30x200m in 30 minutes?
    Surely that gets harder as you get slower since the recovery is both actually & proportionally shorter. For what range does the 0.92 factor work?
    Obviously this 'one a minute' can't work for slow runners, since it gets to the stage where there isn't any recovery at all. I might have got there myself, we'll see. 20 seconds ish between efforts is ok. 

    SG, that 0.92 ratio is a resultant factor from the session. I ran the session, had a good idea of what the average was, did a race soon after and cross matched the figures. After enough results, I could see a pattern.

    That was my point Ric & you adjusted the session to 200m every 75s to enable sufficient recovery I presume. What range of rep/10K times was the 0.92 based on though?
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Jooligan said:
    RicF said:
    Jooligan said:
    Ric Is that 30x200m in 30 minutes?
    Surely that gets harder as you get slower since the recovery is both actually & proportionally shorter. For what range does the 0.92 factor work?
    Obviously this 'one a minute' can't work for slow runners, since it gets to the stage where there isn't any recovery at all. I might have got there myself, we'll see. 20 seconds ish between efforts is ok. 

    SG, that 0.92 ratio is a resultant factor from the session. I ran the session, had a good idea of what the average was, did a race soon after and cross matched the figures. After enough results, I could see a pattern.

    That was my point Ric & you adjusted the session to 200m every 75s to enable sufficient recovery I presume. What range of rep/10K times was the 0.92 based on though?

    Usual number of reps was 30.
    Times would be 40 seconds at worse, usually in the 37/38 seconds mix. I used to do 35 minute 10k's as a matter of course once.

    Clearly I can't do this now. Which is cause for adjustment. Next time out I'll ditch the 200m and simply run for 40 seconds at a suitable effort.

    If I get things right next time, I'll spend the first ten reps wondering if I'm really going fast enough. And, if I have, the fatigue will accumulate ever so slowly instead of hitting me like a ton of bricks halfway through.

    Today what happened is I ran 5km averaging around 5:45 minute mile pace. I can't run a 5km race at that pace, but I covered the distance at it.

    That's speed work. Running one and two mile reps at the pace I can race a 10k or even a 5k race at, isn't. 

    Btw, Well done on turning out for the parkrun Bus. I nearly got around to giving the idea of doing one some consideration.
  • SC, well done on your 5th place in Poland!
    Looking forward to reading Dean's report.

    Joe, that's a really solid session - really is mind-boggling the progress you've made from that parkrun at the beginning of the year.

    Ric, I've only ever done 200s a couple of times - definitely agree regarding wondering if you've gone hard enough during the first lot... then bam. I've always taken a progressive approach towards reps, so maybe I dig myself a bit of a hole trying to push a bit more as I go on.


    Not a lot here from me, finished last week on 44mi, which was pretty good.
    On Tuesday I started my journey out to Taupo in NZ, finally arriving on Thursday evening, which'll be my home until May. Unlike last year, hopefully I'll catch the best of the late-autumn weather rather than the onset of winter. But with temperatures around 20-22°C I've found my first couple of runs tough. Gonna go for an easy mileage week, and hope I've started to adjust for parkrun next Saturday. 
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