Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • Not a marathon, but more miles than a marathon and over rough terrain...

    Having said that, if you've taken two very low weeks and cross trained gently and managed food intake and sleep properly, I think you can be feeling (like a race) a fortnight after a marathon but performance is still likely to be lacking an edge.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Will deffo keep the keenest eye on the recovery - you know me by now.
    The main stuff I want to have little trips to and thrash are all July & August, so I'll certainly use the rest of June to ease back.

    Definitely keen to get back to the "this feels dreadful and hard, but is over quickly, and you can do loads of turnouts" stuff, versus the big massively sucking out energy stuff you can't though.

    Joe - will check that out shortly. We've got a keen lot at Dashers who are up for all sorts - to get a crack team out though might be a struggle with kids and all that. Worth a look for next year though
  • "this feels dreadful and hard, but is over quickly, and you can do loads of turnouts" stuff...sounds great - where do I sign up? ;)

    Talking of which - track last night 6 x (400,300,200). Can't remember recoveries as they were - 200m start to 200m start for the 400, then a 100m jog recovery to 100m start for the 300m (taking you back to the 200m start) then a 100m jog to the 100m start for the 200m, taking you to the 300m start, leaving a slow walk back to the 200m start for the next set. Easy ;) Felt good, 400's generally 66/67, 300's 48 and 31's for the 200's, last one 28.

    Looking forward to our relay tomorrow...

    I'm on leg 6, 4.7 miles. Pretty flat, but one off training group has the v40 record at 27.02, so I'm going to have to do sub 5.45's to get it. He's also doing leg 6 and did sub 16.30 at the Ipswich 5k recently. We both agreed though last night that you can't taper for the GSR relay! The leg is flat as a pancake, so should be fine. The finish is right by the pub and there's a great barbie there too.

    Joe - Alan Barnes from HHH usually organises a city/HHH team for the GB relay.

    SW - Use old flats for track stuff over 3,000m. Not dared a 5,000 in spikes yet. Use my old Hyperspeeds.

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    SG - I was going to say something similar to Muddy, I take a full week off running after a marathon to reset mentally & physically. You've got lack of sleep to recover from as well! Although I was running similar paces it took me 4-6 weeks to feel fit again after Manchester!

    10000m went well last night:

    Race was at 7 so left work at the usual 5 for what should have been a 45 minute journey so plenty of time! As usual this didn't work out, traffic was a nightmare and I seemed to be getting nowhere! Luckily Lewis (my coach) had come down to spectate so had signed me in and picked my number up. The back up plan was for me to run to B race which he would also enter and then pace me round. Arrived at 18.35 so time for a quick change then just enough time to jog a mile and do a couple of strides. Quick discussion on tactics then they lined us up for the A race.

    Gun goes off and I settle in at the back for the first lap which comes in at 1.25 so a touch quick but nothing suicidal. Release the two in front of me are slowing so go past and work to get onto the back of the next group over the next 4/5 laps. 1600m comes up in 5.51 so almost bang on target. Race has settled down now so there are 2 guys who have gone off alone way out front, a group of 3 about 15m ahead then our little group of 4 which I'm tucked in nicely at the back of.

    Lewis timed us at 3k at 11 flat (36.40 pace) and we seem to be slightly catching the group in front. Stays this way for the next few laps. I'm hoping we will latch onto the next group but we don't seem to be getting there and we seem to be slowing down so I decided to take on the pacing. Didn't feel like I had increased the pace but the lads behind me sounded like they were working fairly hard! Gap to the next group was around 60m by this point so I just tried to maintain it.

    Was solo from this point as I slowly dropped the group I was in. Didn't get a 5k split (wasn't wearing a watch) but made sure I kept working hard. First place came past with around 6 laps to go followed by 2nd with around 5 to go. Managed to tag onto him for around 3/4 of a lap before he pulled away. Through the kitchen sink at the last 4 laps to make sure I came in under 37mins!

    Final official time of 36.55 so a 49s PB. Really enjoyed racing on the track and definitely something I'll be looking to do more of in the future!

  • Congratulations StevieWh ! It must be tough running a 10k on a track. I've done a 3k and a 5k and both times died on my arse, as I found the pace quite hard to judge, especially on the 3k.
  • Nice one SW - Well judged.

    Muddy, yes it can get tricky in the 3000, but 5k should be ok, just get the lap times divided up and you should be OK. Helps if they have good timekeepers. At the MK 5000 they have someone on the 200m start calling out predicted finishing times - really really helpful.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work on that PB SW :smile:

    Difficult to know how the recovery from 30M over 24 hours compares to post marathon. Whilst the volume is higher, and the pace similar, you do get a sizeable break between. Don't get me wrong, it'll still have been bloody tough on the body and I don't think SG should be diving back into hard sessions or long runs,  for a couple of weeks, but not sure the full P&D recovery schedule would be necessary.  I've found after marathons that your legs only start telling you the truth after 10 days to two weeks, so the trick is to make sure you have two very easy weeks, before you judge it by feel.  It also helps if you leave it several years before another one :wink:

    Anyway, sacked off the idea of racing tomorrow (again - turning into a lightweight!). Partly the stupid cost, but also work has been rather full-on, which has meant juggling stuff around. So no run Wednesday, 8 hilly miles last night then a double today.  My legs weren't that happy this morning!  Rest, or possibly short recovery tomorrow, then who knows on Sunday - very easy pace, but distance undecided.

    Good luck in the relays tomorrow Simon.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    SW- excellent turn out. You're going well, and no reason not to for a fair while.

    Keep the 10k track and road separate though, or you're asking big questions for your next road turnout :)

    Have a "relay" good time SC (ahem, Bus type gag ;) ). I'll be sleeping tomorrow through, that's for sure!!

    Bus - that's exactly the view I'm taking. I can't be taking 5 weeks to recover from this - the summer will be gone.
    I dare say those saying endure was tougher than marathon were doing the classic "most recent is toughest" type thing, as there's no way having so many gaps in between can mirror that increasing fatigue, both mental and physical - and thus recovery may still take a while - but not nearly as long.

    I can literally see the difference day to day as it is. A complete day off tomorrow, something longer than 4.5 sunday, and hopefully i'll get back to 75% of normal mileage upwards next week - and back on the sessions the week after at latest.

    Our top man is going a 10k race sunday. That'll be interesting to see how he does. I wouldn't dream of racing so soon!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Hey - don't knock the Dad jokes SG - age has got to have some perks :smile:

    Midsummer solstice today - disappointed that (as usual) to have done bugger all to mark its passing. Nights start to draw in from tomorrow :weary:

    Weird double today. This morning was a slog, and even the knee was giving me gyp again. Tonight started off the same, and I was seriously thinking of ways to abandon, but once I'd warmed up, I actually started feeling OK and started enjoying a rare bit of warmth and sunshine. 

    The most bizarre thing though, was I had to do an impromptu 110m (ish!) hurdles!  One one section of my route is a large meadow. In this meadow 2 tractors and a combine harvesting machine were harvesting grass, presumably for silage.   As I entered the field, the first tractor driver, doing the cutting, waved at me as I passed in front of him. At this point he turned 180 degrees, back the way he came, nearly taking my head off with some trailer pulled flailing machine!   Where he had already been, the grass was laid out in long parallel piles, about 2 feet high by three feet wide and perpendicular to my route. At the far side f the field, a second tractor was hoovering up these piles and squirting them into a combine harvester type thing driving alongside it. My trajectory was taking me directly into the path of these two behemoths it seemed! So, to make sure I missed them - or more importantly, they missed me - I either had to stop or speed up!.  I chose the latter. It quickly became increasingly that to be entirely safe, I would have to run at full pelt, hurdling the piles of grass like Colin Jackson at the peak of his powers! I'm glad to say that I made a reasonable fist of this, and wasn't mangled in farm machinery to provide winter feed for our bovine friends.  The two drivers even gave me a thumbs up - whihc was reassuring, because it meant they'd seen me at least!!  The experience was oddly satisfying, and the only real speedwork of the week, but I can't see it ever being an official Olympic event :smile:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019
    SG - thoroughly enjoyed the Endure write up. Epic stuff. I've done a couple of those things. A 24 as a team of 4, and as 12 as a team of 2. Definitely preferred the latter! Seems like recovery is going well, just don't rush back too soon.

    3 years in a row I've organised our lot for the green belt relay - 4 teams as well, it's always fun and games. Really great event actually, and none of this running through the night, and we all have too many drinks on the Sat. Most recent write-up is here;

    Summer is flying by and suddenly I've got an ironman to do in a little over 2 weeks. Swim and bike seem to be trending upwards, but my legs haven't felt good once since London - ridiculous! 

    Quite the weekend! I had to check what we were doing that weekend, as I remembered something clashed. It was Masters Relays in Birmingham.

    My old lot Sandhurst love it though, and one leg passes through West Wycombe, as I remember seeing it on one of my training runs. I had to wave to the organisers to make sure they realised I wasn't part of the race and going the wrong way!

    And ends at the Hawker centre, which is where we also did a nice little relay - the River relay.

    Which is where I think Phil did an offroad marathon once.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Bus - stay safe son!

    Slightly different Saturday for me versus last week then!  A teenage dream, of a lie in and real doss.

    Will aim for an 8miler tomorrow, see how that feels, and increase if needs be. That'd take me to a mere 32.5mile week!

    Hope the legs allow a return to 50 next week.

  • I just put the p&d recovery up as an illustration Bus, to suggest that aiming at a 40 mile week was really not what I would call recovery. Apart from the injury risk, I tend to think junk (pointless) miles are those miles you put in when your body is deep in repair mode. Anyway we all recover differently - I’m atrocious after anything speedy !

    Stevie, think I had a couple of 30 mile weeks ahead of that 10k pb .. just saying ...

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

     Come on son, I've done 24.5miles in six days now, with 3 full rest days, and nothing further than 4.5miles in a go - got to be the lowest output in 3 years.

    Meanwhile I've watched people from the same event do 10milers the day after and race midweek!

    I've got to be at the more sensible scale of recovery in the scheme of things :)

  • Just gonna throw my 2c into the recovery pot... Despite not running a marathon in one sitting, I think the total mileage and duration, as well as the lack of rest, means that a cautious approach should be taken. Of course, every one is different, and you'll likely only know how you feel as each day comes around.

    So, Sticker 5mi this evening. After running decently around my 7.5mi loop on Thursday (in which I ended up with a blister between my big and second toes...), Friday's repeat was garbage with the legs feeling decidedly empty, HR high and pace slow. Didn't fill me with confidence for today!

    After a 1.5mi warm up, legs still felt lacking, but the blister caused no problems and pace/HR was sorta okay. Weather was cool and overcast, a keen breeze was blowing occasionally, so near perfect for racing.
    Lined up a few rows back, and an odd start with the whistle going with no prior announcement - cue confused masses starting watches and leaping away from the line! Planned to run the settle into the first mile without checking the watch, as it starts uphill followed by a decent down through Sticker village and past a pub full of supportive locals, before going up again. Probably a bit overzealous on the downhill, clocking 6:18. Second mile is steady downhill out in country lanes, comes through as 6:00 - I take a couple of places to move to the front of this group, but a good 40m or so from the back of the next. We end up in a high-walled stuffy lane, which despite the cool weather felt rather humid. This mile continues down to the lowest part of the course, with a small kick at the end, and is over in 6:20 (likely due to being a little overzealous in the previous mile). 5km comes through in 19:2x, 20 or so seconds faster than last year - but the rest is up. I try to just plug on, keep the legs turning on mile 4, which gains 30m or so, and the legs are starting to empty. This one is 6:44. We carry on climbing out of the lanes, before it starts to undulate as we approach the start - but the finish is 500m or so round the corner, which is another slight climb. I have a couple of people in my sights, as they passed me on the hill, and I manage to take one before the line! Final mile of 6:39, for 31:48 (by my watch) overall.
    About 100s faster than last year, with the majority of the gains on the hills from 5k to the end. I've yet to find out my official time and placing, but I'm happy with that - especially given there's about 130m or so of elevation gain, and the last fortnight has been patchy.

    Interestingly, the GAP on Strava is very consistent, showing 5:42/6:14/6:15/6:16/6:12, so can't knock the effort! 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Spot on with your first paragraph matt and just what in finding - day by day monitoring. See how today goes!

    Good outing. Must be tough judging when so many of your races are hill monsters- so the 100s better than last year is a real gain
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Just an 8 today then for a 32.5mile week.
    Conservative enough i hope.

    Really humid today so a right breathy job. Legs told me today was plenty so will carry on judging day by day.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Great - love a bit of humidity for the LSR - especially with a  hangover :sweat_smile:  

    Good work Matt. That's got to be close to a 30 on  a pan-flat course I'd guess? 
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    edited June 2019
    It's set to chuck it down all day here, but should dry up for an outing late afternoon/early evening - if I can get my legs going for an LSR!

    It's tough to pace too, you can easily overdo to downs and not leave anything for the return...
    Bus, I reckon based on the sessions previous it could be 30:5x-31:00 for a flatter course - gotta wait until September for that one mind!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I reckon you could get closer to 30 Matt, with a bit of extra adrenaline :smile:

    Phew - that was hard work! Couldn't quite decide on a very long run, or the normal one but at a quicker pace. In the end, I set off at a quickish pace and let the legs decide! 15 hilly off-road miles and almost a min per mile quicker than last week's LSR. The extra pace in the warm, humid conditions certainly told though - the last few hills felt really tough and I thought I had mild heat stroke when I finished!  Oddly, my left foot toes and metatarsals feel battered too. 6 weeks now of 50+ mpw, so a decent block.

    Definitely a cut-back next week :smiley:
  • Simon Coombes 2Simon Coombes 2 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2019
    MH - Good work in the 5m, must be a nightmare with all those hills all the bloody time! 

    So the relays yesterday. I was on the last leg otherwise known as the short 4.7 mile ‘glory leg’ a flat blast basically to finish the 6 leg Greensand Ridge relay that goes from near me in Leighton Buzzard to Northill south of bedford. Added to this, my training partner currently holds the leg record, 27.02. 

    So so decide to set off quite fast along the flat gravelly paths that make up the first 1.5 miles of the route. Then it’s across a road and onto a side of field path that is quite good for the next mile or so. Then it’s across a field, up across the horse field and down into some woods. A couple of right hand turns later through the woods, up through the stud farm and it’s down onto the road and down to the finish by the church. Stupidly lost a few seconds by forgetting to place my tag on the beep machine, but on my watch I had 26.04. Not sure what the actual time was, but happy with it, as it’s roughly 5.30-5.35 miling. Nice couple of pints after, and LBAC managed to win the open competition as our team was over an hour under handicap, also the fastest team.

    Back on the ridge today, nice 9 miles over to Eversholt, just past Woburn House to watch the kid play cricket. Bus - I too had to hurdle those long lines of grass!! Then a picnic and a dip in the pool on the site too. Perfect. Also the temperature looks to be a bit less than it was supposed to be on Wednesday for the 3000m at Wimbledon, which is good. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work in the relay Simon. Altogether, it sounds like a corker of a weekend :smile:

    Went for a walk earlier and relieved to say that the foot seems OK.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    A good chunk of 1second miles in there.
    That's going some 😄😄😄

    Nice relaying simon. Gotta love a relay.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yeah - the pace is not accurate because of how it has been stitched together I think (whihc he points out). New record though 6 days, 6 hours and 5 minutes. Shame it wasn't a minute longer though - 666 would have been much more appropriate for such a beast of a trip :smile: 

    I love the way he downed a pint, handed to him by his mum, while he chatted with Joss Naylor when he got back to the Moot Hall :smiley:
  • Well now your foot is OK Bus - this is your next challenge ;)

    I think I just took 5 mins off my life expectancy by running against the traffic along Euston Rd. Ugh. Just tootling too and from to work until Weds night now.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    A race for me yesterday.

    Settled for a level of effort which, though not killing, didn't kid me that I could have gone much faster either.

    Out of curiosity, I checked the Garmin trace to see if I ran negative splits - I didn't. But I didn't run 'positive' splits either. Check it out.

    At least I had the comfort of knowing that the longer the race went on, the more of those ahead of me were coming back.

    And soon after getting home I went out on the bike for 30 miles. Warm down of sorts.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Nice one Ric - wondered what happened when you didn't appear in the Staines results, but good to see you get a proper turnout in!

    What was the course like, weather? Decent? Noticed Rackham "Only" 30.07. Obviously super fast for V55, but he's often been fast whatever age.

    Today's weather felt hard for a 6miler at normal pace. I could imagine if that was a race today I could have ended up in the bushes quite easily.
    First mile or so hamstrings saying "we're not recovered here son", but after that, they were fine, as the humidity became the battle!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Well what's happened since I've been away? Ric has come back with a race, nice work Ric. Nice work by Matt too, seems like 5 miles is the distance of choice this week.

    SC, you've provided a decent account of the course but none of the psychological drama that SG manages to cram in in his Rainman like race memory.

    Talking of rain, on Wednesday's commute home I was merrily cycling along when I noticed a distinctively colourful film of diesel atop of the rain covered road. I remember easing off the gas a little as I turned off the road, conscious that it might be slippery but as soon as I did my bike slid like from under me like I was on ice. 21 mph to lying on the road in an instant!

    In these moments you don't really have time to try and correct the slide so the only option is to try and fall nicely. I was in the middle of the road for a good few seconds and when I got up I was a little dizzy. Normally such a fall would shred the cycling shorts but I think it was so slippy that they remained in tact. unlike my leg,

    Having said no to a couple of kind offers of help I managed to get on my way in a very sore cycle home. Well I only got half a mile from home where I then received a puncture so had to hobble home the last bit. I've not run since as my hip is sore/bruised and hurts when I try. I have got back on the bike though. So a bit of a shit week for me, might try again tomorrow, hopefully nothing is broken inside but I hate hospitals too much to go and check.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited June 2019
    Tough one there Reg. I've been lucky so far with the bike. The only thing of note being that episode of Global Transc... What's-it??

    SG, Staines didn't happen because a track session revealed that I was blowing up running 1km in only 4:10!

    The idea of a 10k race was shelved without much reflection.

    Heart rate was only into the 150's bpm. Had a think about reasons and promptly dumped the Statins.
     I don't think runners need them anyway since our circulatory systems are well flushed of glued up fat deposits.

    Felt better immediately. HR was 10 bpm up, and everything worked. Did a parkrun around the pace I was blowing up at, and the following week went faster. 

    edit: Pete, I know you take stats, but was that before you became a runner? What I read about them meant dropping them was easy. Fed up of Doctors and their 'tick-box' antics. The blood pressure collar gathers dust where I dropped it.

    Anyway, I've done a few long runs without issues but the race element has done a bunk. Fit, but not fit in that way. I'm aware that I'm now 6kg's heavier than I was when I ran really well. But can I be bothered to starve off the excess? 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Take it easy Reg. These aren't the months that are meant to be dangerous on the roads!

    Weather has gone a bit silly hasn't it, with sillier to come apparently.

    Funny old country we live in.

    Seamless rejoining of the thread Ric. Like you've never been gone :)

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