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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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I've been to the Hand & Flowers a couple of times, never paid myself, I didn't think much of it.
Also a bit stiff today, did just under 2hrs MTB at the lookout before lunch and a 5 miler after lunch. The run was awful, plodded at around 8mm. Dinner and then off for club swimming.
Think I'll do all slow runs/cycles this week and take Saturday off, hopefully I will slowly recover with easy efforts. Would be nice to be five-sharp for Sunday.
Those figures confuse me in a lot of ways. Surely either the easy pace is too fast, or the threshold is too slow?
I'm presuming this is the "Threshold" that is based on heart rate, rather than the "Lactate Threshold" of the P&D schedule, which would be between your 15k-half race paces. Which for you would surely be 5.20-5.30 ish?
on that scale, the 5.44 would look to be more what I would call MP, which I can now understand a bit better as 6-7miles MP is one of my frequent sessions.
ps, the race is just an idea, but it's depends on footy fixtures and whether I have Stevie's hardiness.
past tense: hacked
Well done on the racing over the weekend guys.
Like Matt I tend to keep myself to myself at races. And anywhere else for that matter. I used to have pals but one got killed, two died of illness, one was carted off to prison indefinitely and another became a Jehovah's witness which is pretty much like all of the others combined.
My races will be The Middlesex Masters XC - March 22nd. Southern 12 stage - March 29th. Hillingdon HM - April 12th. Staines 10k - May 17th.
🙂
Another piece I read said - threshold is the near the fastest you can run for the set amount of time..
Matt and Rob, obviously the science is there determined by testing.. Does threshold "have" to have a minimum volume - or is this a phase of 3 threshold sessions of X per week? I'm wondering this as although initially my "legendary" 2.25m runs to work were quick, at the time around 6m/m was probably THE - giving me a pretty solid base when I started training properly in October 2013 - then running well not long after
Seeing as easy 4 milers are ran nearly minute slower + more too wouldn't that be classed as junk now??
Also - the same lad I mentioned earlier is talking of just recovery runs / threshold / sessions -
That sort of comment could you get you banned Ric
Ric, be careful, your fan club will be out in droves now you've posted that!!
Scott, it's easy to forget that mad period you had where every single run was one of 2 distances! Thank goodness you switched ting around,
I think obviously better with structured training and once was doing session don't think I would have been able to do that daily without breaking down with at least fatigue. Clearly Matt and Rob have stepped up another level (if possible) with the TH stuff and interested in it.
Dachs - Thankyou for making me LOL tonight too
Easy/recovery
Lactate Threshold (roughly marathon pace)
Tempo (1/2 mara-10k pace)
Intervals (5k downwards)
I pretty much run 3 thresholds per week and one session in my tempo zone as I've been told the more running at LT or just below it can bring on significant improvements in performance. On the day of my test my LT was 5.29 min miling but obviously when I run outside there's a lot of variables that mean that pace changes slightly. Wind, terrain, tiredness, hydration etc.
Before now I'd have more than likely smashed myself to hit 5.30 pace for 40 minutes whereas now I know I'm working at or around my LT based on my HR.
My easy runs have quickened slightly but I used to potter around at 7+ min miling but now 5 weeks into it 6.20-6.30s feel more than comfortable. The threshold runs are more a battle in your head as I know the lactate isn't going to bring me to a halt and I just have to get in a good rhythm. The tempo zone has been an eye opener as I'm now trying to run 4x7 and 3x 10mins at around 5 min miling.
I've not even touched the interval zone as of yet.
Interesting, especially how it stacks up against the "classic" couple of hard sessions a week that suits "most" runners. As I suppose you're conditioning yourself to a level, where the "medium hard" of your LT becomes even less than that as an effort.
The thing that doesn't quite tie up to me though, is that you state LT is roughly MP, but then on the day of the test it came out 5.29, which I'd have thought is more your HMP. (matches the 1.12 half you did)
I could see the tie up between 10k at say 5.10 pace and HMP 5.29, but if your MP was 5.29, that'd mean your 10k would surely be a stupendous sounding 4.50?
And we don't even want to ask what 5k and 3k would be?!
I doubt if any Jehovah's witnesses are reading anything posted on the RW forum. And it's doubtful anyone will come out with all guns blazing on their behalf either.
If that isn't what the replies were about, what was it about? The fact that I've told the truth? The comment about the pals was true.
My mate was killed at 20 years of age in a car crash. One died of motor neurone, another had a heart attack and died alone on the banks of a lake. The other got a life sentence for attacking someone with a hatchet (a sort of friend I only met while fishing). The Jehovah witness was someone I knew from the age of 12 and disappeared for ever into their system.
Actually, I've just lost another. Go on the Chiltern League website and read about Dennis Orme. I sorted out his garden in August. I'll be attending his funeral on Thursday.
🙂
Sorry to hear Ric, and bad mix of past losses too.
Just to clear up any doubt though...my post was actually about the second half of your original one, this bit!!
Ric: I hadn't heard about Dennis. Our paths crossed a number of times over the years, mainly connected with our respective universities and schools events. Very sad and a great loss to the organisational side of athletics.
Matt - I'm sure you have previously anyway but when I was in shape I would do mile reps close to 5m/m with some 4:5x or average 5:0x
This only happened my 2/3 times before I ended up changing things and becoming injured but I was running fast and progressing obviously
I wouldn't put it past you to run 3 x 10mins at 5m/m
Today my 2 x 12" was 5:36 / 5:39 average and I remember doing 5:20 pace for 3x2 mile just before Eastleigh so sounds right to me! Just need your legs to go with it
The results are paces that I should be capable of running based on my LT test. (It was a 71 half btw
Pre my full time running days when I was still playing football I went from running a 40.11 10k to running 34.47 by never stepping foot on a track, running intervals, reps, hill sessions or even a weekly long run.
The 34.47 came about by firstly running a sub 40 min 10k on a treadmill on the days I didn't play football. That eventually turned into running a hilly 10k route in 36 mins or a hilly 10mile route in 62-64 mins. I actually think by accident I was doing lots of tempo/threshold running which brought on them gains.
I think what I'm doing now is just a bit more of a measured approach to that.
Matt. I'm interested to see what improvements come from this style of training. I'm going to get the same test done but can't get to blizzard until march.
Sg. im trying to think what fast races we have ooop north that is worth the travel...christleton perhaps?
ric, you have lead an interesting life sir.
bus - I'm on an austerity drive now
i foolishly agreed to stop off at Bicester village on the way back with my wife too. Ouch!
andrew - what didn't you like about h&f? i would agree the restaurant in bray nearby is better but h&f has 2 Michelin stars and is fully booked out for the next 9 months.. our food was pretty damn good and definitely worth the long drive down.
Sorry to hear Ric.
Evening all.
Never been to the Hand & Flowers. Mrs made the wedding cake for her brother's wedding this weekend just gone. They got her dinner at the Hind's Head in Bray by way of thanks.
Just found out I can't run across 'The Bridge'. Rail and cars only. Treadmills reps instead
Dean, I'd certainly recommend it. I'm enjoying it as I'm used to training alone so I can work it round family etc. It was pure coincidence but I'd already read an article on Andy Ward who trains this way and I'd heard about Gareth Lowe who also did it. It then turns out that Rob saw the same bloke!
Dean, got it in one! (Although I thought you had stacks of 10ks that were worth doing, and quite a few fast 5ks too?)
I noticed Christleton is on a Friday night, and United are currently down to play Arsenal on the Saturday.
It would mean a 3hour drive on the day of a race, which might be a little mental. I know the Seeman did a similar drive for a 3k and smashed it...
Also, whether I'm in any sort of sensible shape to be trying to smash a 5k in May, let alone after 3hours of driving is anyone's guess. Not to mention that they could easily move what could be a top 4 decider to the Sunday monstering the 2 for 1 plan anyway.
Still...it'd be an interesting one.
I do this though, ponder different ideas that don't get off the ground. Like that 1mile hill race in Wales. I'll never get round to that, as this year Wycombe played at Newport, about 15miles away the day after! If I didn't do it with that sort of amazing double up, I never will
ps apologies Matt, 1hr 11
Ridiculous levels of talent there. Whereas you were obviously pishing about with footy, for me it was my reason for living for a huge amount of years. It's also probably why tempos still feel odd now, whereas reps with a nice recovery feel like what I've always done.
ps edit...there's nothing to suggest you weren't all over the footy yourself in fairness!
Cheers guys, I seem to attend quite a lot of funerals these days.
SG, it appears I misinterpreted your post. I had visions of the inhabitants of the clubhouse going into oxygen debt on their laptops. It probably annoys them, the fact I can actually run.
Dean, yes interesting but thankfully, not too exciting.
🙂
It was only when I came 3rd in my second race and ran 34.47 that I got hooked on the running.
Dean, it's not that I didn't like it, but when I go to a Michelin star place, I go with heightened expectations. I am surprised by the long wait, I guess it's since he started his awful TV programme.
Bray has two Michelin starred restaurants, I've not been to the Fat Duck, but I've been to the Waterside a few times. Again not a massive fan, but it's a lovely setting. I went there last summer the week before the Ironman, so I was on the sparkling water. What a relief it was when the hosts paid the drinks bill, splitting that was going to hurt!
was not expecting snow to arrive overnight, doh!
Just to make the carless for a week, bit riddled with various new post race tightnesses experience of running even more awkward! Since i started doing some new "hip loosening" exercises i seem to have tightened up in the groin/pelvis. Should probably stop doing those then!
Saw some poor woman come off her scooterish type vehicle. Stopped to check she was alright with some driver guy, but just the shock of it more than any damage I think.
Trundled out my usual 6mile route, funnily enough, slowest time ever!
Not quite sure how tomorrows 4x1mile at HMP reps will pan out, probably best doing them round the park at what I think is the right intensity, and forcing my brain to accept it'd be optimistic to hit the literal road pace!
Wokingham has got to be at risk if this is around for the rest of the week
i have been hampered with snow/ice for about 3 weeks now. only managed to run outside about 4 times, rest was on a treadmill., as it will be today. 5*1m reps
SG echo what Matt says about the podium 5k, every month and very fast but its in burnley so even further to travel plus its in burnley
Christleton is well worth the drive...particulalrly as you dont have a race like that local to you. as its a friday night race, take friday afternoon off and drive up leisurely.
talking about footy and running. i was chatting to a relative of mine who played in the premiership and was an international footballer and we got onto running. he said that at one club they used to do track races between the team and that the very best of them did a sub 4 1500 with the majority hitting about 4.05.
Andrew - not been to the waterside but i have been to the fat duck. i loved all the showman style of his cooking/presentation but my wife less so. i know what you mean about the drinks bill, at the fat duck they roll out the champagne trolley for a sharpener, of course my wife chooses the fizz thats about £29 a glass. So im the best part of £60 down within seconds of arriving and not so much as seen a bread roll at this point.
Hmmm. Without wanting to be rude to your relative, I'll take that with the same pinch of salt I take all other half-remembered running accomplishments of those who do other sports. I have no trouble believing that the best in any given Premiership team could go under 4. Gareth Bale by all accounts ran 4:08 as a 15 year old, only a few seconds down on what the likes of Ross Murray and Andy Baddeley did at a similar age. But then he's noted for his pace and endurance. But the majority of the team around 4:05? Not really buying that.
SG, if you're looking for fast, weekday evening 5Ks, bear the Battersea Park races in mind on Monday evenings. I struggle to imagine a faster road course. Totally flat, all curves are gentle, and a lot closer to home. No shortage of runners at about your level. Perfect. I'll be doing one again this year. Plus, if you run a PB, you don't have an 'a' next to it on Po10
the relative in question was defn capable of such times
the difference between us 30/40 something vets and 25 yr old professional footballers is staggering. They train consistantly and recover professionally (phsyio/massages etc every day) with all the best facilities and advice on hand. They are in the premier league because they have athletic capability. i admit struggling to see a razor ruddock hitting a 4.05 but if a 41yr old amateur vet who does a bit of training on top of his job can hit a 4.05 i can imagine most 20 something premier league footballers could achieve it. There were 540 amateur runners that could do a sub 4.05 last yr.
Going back to my football days (only decent local level) I always saw a massive difference between the quickest players and the slowest over 100 or 400 metres and no doubt 1500/1600 too. The fastest tend to be full backs and wingers and the slowest often centre backs/forwards and the keeper of course. At top pro level they will no doubt work on the speed of even the slowest, but players like Terry, Lambert, Mertesacker, Giroud etc doing 4:05 I very much doubt.