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The Middle Ground
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Every little 0.11% helps ...
MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html
85.56% Hilly (10K, 39:13, March)
85.32%Treadmill (5M, 29:47, March)
83.98% PhilPub (HM, 1:12:48, May)
83.78% BR (10K, 34:10, March)
81.40% PRF (5K, 17:25, March)
78.78% Duck (60m, 8.2, March)
78.46% forever (HM 1.31.49 March)
76.06% Simon E (1M, 4:59, March)
74.50% YD (5K, 17:31, April)
73.94% Minni (10K 42.57 April)
72.68% Mr V (5K 17.45 June)
72.15% Ratzer (HM, 1:25:30, March)
71.95% Dash (10K, 39:47, April)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June)
68.63% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:42, June)
67.40% Darola (5K, 21:12, June)
64.94% CB (5K, 20:25, April)
Needs updating...
77.24% Chingoncito (HM, 1:16:35, Jan)
71.38% dav3c (HM, 1:33:00, Feb)
66.02 Curly (5k 22.25 Feb)
Yo Barnsie!
Great result, glad to see your MV experience being utilised, and very pleased to see your cock up on pacing resulting in a faster time than you were expecting. 34:40 seems quite toasty for a coffin dodger.
Personally, I've dropped the hard nosed focus on another Bubka, but am back doing a bit. Maybe a little towards the dark side....
Morning!
BR: apologies! When I looked at the Woodhall results for PRF's I didn't see yours so presumed that you didn't run, so didn't look for Hilly's either! Apologies to Hilly, too: I steady looking performance given the aches and pains of last week. And nice work, BR: hope you got a decent reward.
Will have to look up various cross countries in Leicester: from what I remember the intercounties alternated between Derby and Braunstone, with the odd Luton thrown in. Western Park was used for the National: indeed the first cross country I ever watched must have been about 1964 with Bruce Tulloh running in bare feet. That was before I started running and quite a big crowd went to watch. I think Ron HIll was third.
Very tasty racing from you, prf! Nicely unaware faster last section, BR! But for me the race of the last few days goes to MrV with his 6m/m through a 10k after various ups and downs through the season. You really are turning up some non-languid times at the moment!
DrD, congratulations on taking out the kid both real and WAVA. There's some true satisfaction to be gained in beating lads who aren't even shaving yet!
Again, sure I've missed a few, but when you wade through BR and prfs' race reports you're bound to lose something in the sheer volume. Gym session for me last night with a few 800s on the treadmill to warm the legs up. It's about time I started getting the easy miles back in as the aches from Thursday faded quite quickly. Not sure how much to do but figure on getting the mileage up slowly as usual, and going easy enough that the fast-twitchers still get a good rest.
I'm with you Darola that is a pretty impressive list of running prf! Dereham 5k is in my diary
Pleased to hear Woodhall Spa turned out to be a good race but sorry you didn't make the start line either YD. Well done indeed on the position and win BR and glad to hear your knee is much better Hilly.
Impressive early birthday run Dr Dan you earned your birthday cake!
Nice litte group of 46 year olds now to keep you all competitive
Duck - Good session in the heat.
Minni - I run for Claremont at the moment. Enjoyed the report on your thread.
PRF - That's a very promising time with your recent race schedule taken into account. A sub 36 is surely there for the taking on fresh legs.
Ratzer - Thanks. I feel the fitness has been there for a while but it seems things have only started coming together recently. I'm feeling more confident in my ability to get some good times tat the moment and I suppose the mental side of things is half the battle.
BR - Nice run there, also on tired legs. Has does that compare to your other 10k times this year?
I missed Phil's birthday! Shows what it's like to have no internet access over a few days! Happy belated birthday, PP!
Interesting mail dropped into my inbox today (and into prf's, no doubt). A coach musing over the meaning of 'sport-specific' exercise. With any questions over gymwork for running being implicated in the subject, it has got me to thinking. At the moment I'm trying to work on base speed, so going to the gym is being pushed slightly by the athletic fraternity, and I'm in favour of it. But now I have to consider what is really helping running and what isn't.
The coach appears to be saying that exercises that appear to be closest to running but involve making the practice more difficult, such as weighted running with a vest or ankle/hand weights, are bad. Whereas exercises that replicate a small action involved, such as the squat, are good. The weights thing precisely because it makes the running more difficult - turnover is reduced, knee height reduced, form generally is made worse. Whereas the squat doesn't appear to be running related, but improves stride length and power through the ground, resulting in improved form even though you don't see it in the exercise itself - the squat is sport relevant, if not sport specific. Not many gym-bunnies on this thread, I know, but what impact does this line of thinking have on some of the running exercises that are mentioned across the forum? Aqua-jogging - where does that fall? Hill sprints vs hill bounding? The plank - it isn't specific, but is it relevant at all?
Well done all all racers, some excellent results from PRF, Mr V and BR. Lots of the usual good training going on too.
Ratzer, not a gym-bunny or expert, but used to go to the gym a lot and have belonged to a few runner specific circuit session groups. All exercises were geared towards running development, including single leg squats, lunges with or without weights (walking lunges too). Press-ups, bounds, step-ups onto a bench - the list is endless. I recall being told never to wear weighted vests. I was also told not to do hill sprints on too sharp a hill as it changes the form making the runner hunch and shuffle up rather than allowing the runner to lift the knee which I believe is important for speed development. I'm not sure but isn't hill sprinting the same as hill bounding, but follows after the runner has developed good form bounding first?
The plank is just another core exercise and whilst individually it most probably has no direct benefit to running, by developing the core doesn't that help the runner to move more fluently and strong? Maybe injury prevention?
I'm sure others will come along soon with a more thought out answer. I just do the exercises I think make certain parts of my body strong
Update on my own little injury is that I did do the same 10k as PRF and BR yesterday in my worst time in years, but the aim was to see if I could run hard and hope it had no last effect if I did so. I have some discomfort today, but it's manageable and not enough to stop me running, but will keep the pace slow for a while longer. It's all progress though
Not really had chance to read back properly, but it looks like Dr Dan is back in the swing of competitive action, albeit with someone at the opposite end of the WAVA scale.
YP had a great PB last weekend at parkrun.
Mr V ran a good Blaydon Race by the sounds of things, even with shoelace issues.
Minni – you asked about me running Town Moor a while back, well the answer is no I am no longer running it. I have unfinished business with the Half Marathon to take care of first. I am thinking of running GNR or Redcar then GER and one other, maybe Norwich in the autumn. I also mentioned running Cabbage Patch 10 to Mrs YD yesterday and she didn’t seem to mind, so a busy autumn of racing for me
As for your Blaydon outing, just think of it as a really good tempo run. Best way to think of a dissapointing race in my view.
Phil, hope your bug didn’t spoil your birthday, pictures on bookface suggest not.
Darola – a good mile rep session the other day, I would run the same session with the same paces but with a shorter recovery next time. Once you can do those paces off a 1 min recovery you can start to think about holding that pace over 5k and more….
Duck - 10m in 27c
forever – nice improvement, I think PB Queen might be making an outing before long
Good to see Ratzer posting and trying to rattle cages again. My mentality on strength is similar to Hilly’s, I want it to help me run more. I think of strength work as strengthening the chassis, where as running itself is where you develop the engine and wheels, and ultimately, where the improvements come from. And yes I think any work you do should be sport relevant, so lots of squats, lunges and calf dips for me.
No running for me since last Monday as I have been a bit ill. I thought I was improving and felt almost back to normal yesterday afternoon but I had a pretty grim night last night and feel a bit blurgh again today. I think a lack of sleep is part of the problem for me as well as a virus. For once the lack of sleep is nothing to do with junior, I am overheating when asleep and well you know what we do when we overheat……not nice.
I was very disappointed to miss out on the Woodhall Spa 10k yesterday as it looked like a good race, but at least prf got to put my number to good use with a cracking run. Excellent running from BR and Hilly making progress back to fitness with the troublesome knee.
Not good YD
Hope things improve soon. Hopefully see you at either GER or Norwich then!
Hilly good news on the knee progress.
Morning all. Well done for everybody's races and happy birthday to everybody. Right, that's me caught up.
Good reading back Simon
. I will get out for a run tonight 
It’s amazing what a good nights sleep does for you, I feel fine today
MIDDLE GROUND RACE CALENDAR
June
12th - KImmy Kanter - BR, PRF
13th - Rosenheim Fix 3, Wimbledon - 1500m - Simon
17th - Epsom 10k - YoungPup
17th - Puddletown Plod 20K - BR, Hilly, PRF
18th - SCVAC Fix 2, Ewell - (200m?) 800m; 4 x 400m - Simon
19th - NYSD T&F 3000m Darlington - YD
20th - Wroxham 5k - forever
20th - Dulwich Midsummer 5k - PhilPub
24th - Ranelagh Harriers 10k, Richmond - YoungPup, PhilPub
24th - Rainton 10k - YD
25th - SCVAC Fix 3, Kingston - 400m; 1600m Medley - Simon
July
1st - Humpty Dumpty 10k - forever
4th Tynedale 10k – Mr V
4th - Rosenheim Fix 4, Battersea - 1500m - Simon
4th - Spencer Arms - PRF
6th - Great Bentley 5 - forever
10th Bridges of the tyne 5 mile road race - MrV
10th - SCVAC Fix 4, Croydon - 800m; 4 x 200m - Simon
11th JP Morgan Corporate Challenge, Battersea - YoungPup
11th Doncaster 5K - Hilly, BR
12th - Biggleswade Open 10,000m - PhilPub
14th - SAL Fix 4, Croydon - 800m, 1500m - Simon
15th Eccup 10M - Dr.Dan
15th Burton Leonard 10k - YD
17th Ashton Open - 1500m - Simon
17th - NYSD T&F 1mile Darlington - YD
18th - Wroxham 5k
18th - Brighton Phoenix 10k - PhilPub
18th - Club Mile - PRF, BR, Hilly
21st-22nd - BMAF T&F Champs - 800m, 1500m - Simon
22nd - Dereham 5k - forever, BR, Hilly
22nd - Down Tow Up Flow HM - YoungPup
25th Laxton 10k - Hilly, BR, PRF
29th Saltburn 10k? Mr V
29th - Leeds Xpress Tri (sprint) - Dr.Dan
August
1st - Yateley 10k - PhilPub
6th - Self Transcendence 3 x 1 mile relay, Battersea - Simon, Phil & Duck
12th - Darlington 10k - MrV
12th - Mid-Kent 5 mile - PhilPub
September
2nd - Kent Coastal Marathon - YoungPup
2nd - Ryedale 10m - MrV
9th - Lake Vyrnwy HM - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
9th - Cardiff 10k - PhilPub
20th - Ron Hill's Birthday 5K - PRF
23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
30th - Horsforth 10K - Dr.Dan
30th - Redcar HM - MrV
October
7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub, MrV?
21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup
November
?? 18th/25th November - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV
18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
April 2014 - Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR
Simon - You must have been up all night reading through.
Dr Dan - Thats a decent Head To Head brewing there with Dr Fox. Talking of HTHs, has anyone got any ideas about I avoid the ignominy of this becoming 0-50?
Having said that, there are three 10Ks in there and in chronological order the gaps have been 6:41, 3:01, 1:57.......... so its clearly just a matter of time.
forever - See you at Dereham then.
You do know that you'll be expected to provide sightseeing duties, right? 
Now to update the fixture list.........
MIDDLE GROUND RACE CALENDAR
June
13th - Rosenheim Fix 3, Wimbledon - 1500m - Simon
17th - Epsom 10k - YoungPup
17th - Puddletown Plod 20K - BR, Hilly, PRF
18th - SCVAC Fix 2, Ewell - (200m?) 800m; 4 x 400m - Simon
19th - NYSD T&F 3000m Darlington - YD
20th - Warrington 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
20th - Wroxham 5k - forever
20th - Dulwich Midsummer 5k - PhilPub
24th - Ranelagh Harriers 10k, Richmond - YoungPup, PhilPub
24th - Rainton 10k - YD
25th - SCVAC Fix 3, Kingston - 400m; 1600m Medley - Simon
26th - Dam Flask Relays - BR, Hilly, PRF
July
1st - Humpty Dumpty 10k - forever
4th Tynedale 10k – Mr V
4th - Rosenheim Fix 4, Battersea - 1500m - Simon
4th - Spencer Arms - PRF
6th - Great Bentley 5 - forever
6th - Walkington 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
8th - Birdsedge Challenge - BR, Hilly, PRF
10th Bridges of the tyne 5 mile road race - MrV
10th - SCVAC Fix 4, Croydon - 800m; 4 x 200m - Simon
11th JP Morgan Corporate Challenge, Battersea - YoungPup
11th Doncaster 5K - Hilly, BR, PRF
12th - Biggleswade Open 10,000m - PhilPub
14th - SAL Fix 4, Croydon - 800m, 1500m - Simon
15th Eccup 10M - Dr.Dan
15th Burton Leonard 10k - YD
17th Ashton Open - 1500m - Simon
17th - NYSD T&F 1mile Darlington - YD
18th - Wroxham 5k
18th - Brighton Phoenix 10k - PhilPub
18th - Club Mile - PRF, BR, Hilly
21st-22nd - BMAF T&F Champs - 800m, 1500m - Simon
22nd - Down Tow Up Flow HM - YoungPup
22nd - Dereham 5K - BR, Hilly, forever, PRF
25th Laxton 10k - Hilly, BR, PRF
29th Saltburn 10k? Mr V
29th - Leeds Xpress Tri (sprint) - Dr.Dan
August
1st - Yateley 10k - PhilPub
1st - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
4th - Self Transcendence 10K, Battersea - BR, Hilly, PRF
6th - Self Transcendence 3 x 1 mile relay, Battersea - Simon, Phil & Duck
12th - Darlington 10k - MrV
12th - Mid-Kent 5 mile - PhilPub
19th - Birchwood 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
22nd - HydePark Harriers Mile, Leeds - PRF
September
2nd - Kent Coastal Marathon - YoungPup
2nd - Ryedale 10m - MrV
5th - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
9th - Lake Vyrnwy HM - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
9th - Cardiff 10k - PhilPub
20th - Ron Hill's Birthday 5K - PRF
23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
30th - Horsforth 10K - Dr.Dan
30th - Redcar HM - MrV
October
7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub, MrV?
21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly, PRF, YD?
November
?? 18th/25th November - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV
18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
April 2014 - Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR
We are talking about Dereham you know, not London
So it wont take long then?
prf – do you know when the Millennium Bridge 5k is? The York Acorn website says 16th August, but I am not sure if that is referring to last year or not. We need to add THE smackdown to the list
YD - Tuesday 14th August. Hope they find the bloke with the key to the barrier locks this year...
About 17 mins in your case a bit longer for me .....the race should cover all the landmarks
YD nice to see you feeling better and planning future smackdowns
You could always try lending BR one of your parkrun maps ... you know, the one that has the 5 mile detour
.
Might not be a bad thing if they don’t prf, we need all the help we can get if we are going to beat our target……. or we could go with Dr Dan’s suggestion
forever – don’t worry we discussed smackdowns on Sunday when I wasn’t feeling all that well, its my new favourite passtime
forever - Since it doesnt exactly look like you've got your work cut out on the tourist guide front, perhaps you could put a bit of effort into some nice favourable weather conditions then? Its always windy down your way......
Dr Dan - Thats one option. Theres also the chewing gum attached to racing shoes tactic......but I think it may still require something a little more drastic!
YD - You do know that the Millenium Bridge 5K is a very twisty course and very narrow in places, right? You also know that BR likes to set off with his prey ahead of him, right? With a little bit of teamwork I can see a plan formulating.........
MWAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
Quick Garmin question. Does anyone know if you can display time elapsed or at least pace when you do an interval workout. At the moment it just counts down distance and there is no way of knowing what your time per lap was until you finish the workout.
Loving the smackdown talk btw
I do like those kind of plans forming...
Knackered legs today. I went too fast last night. Just wanted about four miles but that's a short distance mentally, and therefore a fast distance. Big mistake. I'm supposed to be keeping the miles slow and short outside of the sprint sessions. Added to gym on Sunday I haven't recovered well for tonight.
On the gym stuff I have got a load of 'runner's' exercises. Too many to mention. So if anyone is getting bored of their routine I have alternatives... cheap...
YD - Glad to hear you're feeling better. I'm getting there...
prf - Now obviously I'm not going to suggest you retire, which would be one way to avoid a 50 - 0 scoreline, but maybe if you raced less than four times a week, it might just put off the inevitable.
Nah seriously, keep the toeing the line and I'm sure the glory will be yours. You need to pick another race where BR falls over or whacks himself in the head with a stray branch... A win's a win, and all that.
MrV - Are you talking about the 305? I use mine for interval training, and the data field options are pretty numerous, including time, distance, or pace for either overall work-out, current lap or last lap. If I'm on the track the only essential one is "Time - lap" (so that you can see how the current rep is going, and time your recoveries) and for tempo intervals, that plus "Pace - lap" (and maybe "distance - lap" if I'm not using a measured route.) Erm, but this is all based on manually pressing the lap button, rather than a pre-set interval work-out, if that's what you mean?
Oh, and I'll be upgrading to a 610 as of Sunday. One of the more bling birthday presents I'm likely to ever receive.
This pesky cold has been dragging on. It reached a height over the weekend getting right on my chest, my voice started returning yesterday and today I'm nearly there. Definitely not quite up to interval running, so swerving the track this evening, but at current rate of progress I'm hopeful of trying out the respiratory system with an easy run tomorrow or Thursday at the latest. I'll work on the glass-half-full, rest must've done me good, principle.
Ratzer - forgot about your gym query. I get the same pponline e-mails... My ''CNBA to think about it too much'' philosophy on the whole thing is that what I get up to in the gym will either (a) help, (b) hinder or (c) have no effect on my running performance, whilst at the same time hopefully help towards my "overall fitness", however that may be defined. So as long as an activity doesn't fall into category (b) I tend not to worry too much whether it's more (a) or (c), or whether at any point I'd ever be able to isolate the effect anyway.
What with illness and other excuses I've been a bit slack on the gym front so need to get back to it. I'd certainly be interested in hearing about your runner's exercises to mix it up a bit. I take it they're sport-relevant rather than sport-specific?
Smackdown tactics
PhilP ... glad you're over the worst.
I took yesterday off from running due to some lower leg pain ... I was all about to take a 2nd day off today but decided to play it by ear. I did the same 7.5M sub-LT session as last week, with 6.24M at target HR. Nothing new to report ... over all it came out as 3 seconds faster than last week.With Saturday's parkrun being 2 seconds faster than the week before, I can see things are certainly improving ... slowly.
I'm up for the York Millenium Bridge 5k. I have also managed to scrounge a Saturday off work so my Parkrun debut will happen at York on the 23rd June - anyone else there on that day? I don't think the York PR is happening this Saturday due to a horsey event.
Speaking of York race course, I have bitten the bullet and decided to make my race comeback & do the league 10k there tonight - 3 laps in all. After several weeks of a virus & bashed knees I haven't raced or run fast at all so this could be slow & messy. Still, I have to start somewhere!
Good work Dr D, I reckon you are about a month ahead of me!
Get well soon PP.