The Middle Ground



  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    WP - sorry to hear that, but hopefully you will be back soon. This is why I steer clear of doctors and physios when it comes to injuries - it seems that unless you shell out a fortune to see a specialist running physio ( or at least a sports physio) they seem to have bugger all expertise to diagnose problems and just seem to want to either prescribe rest or at best will offer some symptom relief.

    15 miles this week for me, so slowly getting back to it.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Gone quiet here again.

    Wp is it worth paying to see a private physio?

    I've not trained since Wed. Started feeling rough that night and following two days felt awful  aching all over and tired. By Friday night I was unable to cut up my own good as my hands wouldn't work. Come Saturday I couldn't write, pull socks oor anything that involved hand strength or dexterity.  i spent all day in hospital yesterday being tested. All my bloods and organs were clear though so it's gone down as an unfortunate virus. Funcionality is now returning reasonable fast and I can do everything just with a bit more effort than usual. Still tired and washed out, mainly from stress yesterday and lack of food over last few days. 

    Should be back up and running in a few days. Heart rate and blood pressure now back to normal. Got physio in morning to try and loosen off my arm muscles which have been hammered. 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Hello indeed, Ratzer! What have you been up to these last few years?!

    And hope all is now well, DT! Very strange!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • WelshpoppyWelshpoppy ✭✭✭

    DT: I hope you are okay but that was so weird for you!!

    My physio is on holiday and only reason I have not been to see her

    Andrew: Great news you are off the bench and starting your comeback.

    I have started to feel improvement so much so once my new orthotics arrive I will try a run to see how the knee feels but at the moment I am  still walking 11 miles a day to keep fitness levels up!

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    Hi, alehouse!  I've been getting fat and using my knees as an excuse. image  I bought a new pair of trainers nearly a year ago and they still look new!  I got nervous about road cycling following a few run-ins with cardiots.  Mountain biking just never caught my interest,  Swimming always has bored me stupid.  Walking takes too long when you've only got a few spare hours in a day.  I joined a gym a few months ago and I'm trying to learn how to lift weights properly and not feel embarrassed walking into a yoga class on a Saturday morning.

    How are you now that running seems to be consistent?

    I hope everyone else is well!  Ofc I've noticed Duck flying.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭


    DT ... strange stuffimage! Take it easy on the return to running.

    WP - well done on the walking regime!

    iower - it was open water swimming that always put me off the idea of triathlon - but now I've been twice, I realise I love it! Swimming the Olympic distance is not an issue ... it's just that I am prone to panic attacks in the water when I over exert myself. Nice pace on that 5.5 by the way!image

    So, I've been absent from a PC for a week... but not inactive...

    Thurs - 16 mi bike on the Tri route. More of a recce than a session but, given I have not cycled more than 6 miles since last August, it was never going to be!

    Fri - day off. Went for a long walk and a pub lunch with Mrs.Dan as we've been married 25 yearsimage. We're off to Florence in September to celebrate it properly.

    Sat - parkrun. After consuming too much wine, I realised late the night before that my daughter had no swimming lesson on Sat morning. Emergency parkrun ensued ... couldn't find my Garmin in time, so ran this blind. 20:15... okay but think it would have been quicker with the watch.

    Sun - open water swim #2 ... 2000m front crawl non-stop. Loved it but my Garmin filled up with lake waterimage. Dismantled and dried out the watch afterwards and it came back to lifeimage.

    Mon - "brick session". 4.7 miles on the bike, including 5 x 750m hill sprints to knacker the bike muscles ... then straight off for a 3.65 mile run at 7:30/m.

    Tues - 28.4 mile bike ride.

    Today - Bike commute and 1 mile swim (4 x 400m front crawl with 1 min rests). Swimming is definitely improving!

    Tomorrow - Bike commute and a lumpy 10K trail race.

    11 days until the Triathlon!image

  • PRF I went to Night of 10,000m PBs last year and it was great. Gutted to miss it this year due to a double booking.

    Ha ha, yes, Ducks can fly!

    Ratzer! Quick, somebody say something unscientific and he'll be drawn in and never leave. Erm, I heard that homeopathy can help shin splints.

    alehouse still being consistent? How is the acilles these days?

    Blimey, DT. Sounds scary. Take care.

    Mr V! Still tall I see. I always get told I'm at an advantage cos of long legs.

    Dr Dan and iower tri-ing hard?

    YD/TR/Artist Nice to see you're running respectable middle distances image If I can stay injury-free for a month maybe we could have a trackdown smackdown!

    As for me I keep getting injured by stupid things (kicking a football caused a hip injury and completely ruined 2014, slipped off curb and twisted ankle and ruined achilles last year), then illness and family tragedy meant that this year ended up being a write off. Gonna get back on the track with a vengeance as a V40 next summer.

    In brighter news I work full time as a coach and trainer now. Getting paid for running! Also launching a running-related web site in a couple of months. Not much of my life isn't running these days.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - that does sound like a pretty horrible experience. Glad there seems to be nothing underlying that is wrong - just take it easy as you get back into it.

    WP - good to hear.

    Dan - sounds like a hectic week! 

    After 15 miles last week I have so far done 4.5 and 4 mile runs this week. Hoping to get to about 17 for the week as a whole. Pace was good this evening (8.25 m/m) so felt quite good by the end of the run. 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Andrew - good news. Hopefully you're back.

    Simon - great to see you are back running and that the coaching is going well.

    Well the "lumpy 10K trail race" was bliddy tough! Up and down the side of the Aire valley on trails ... legs are totally shot now! Came in at 44:31 and really did work hard for that (HR only 2 bp below max by the end) as I was in a couple of scraps with team-mates in the last 2K. 91st and 11th V45 (would have been 5th V50 had it been next week!image). Also did 17 miles bike today, which naturally took its toll on the 10K, but all in all a pretty decent training load for the day (and week). Saw PRF there and he running like someone half his age, winning the V50 category by some way (and of course HO won again - pretty tough race for first spot my all accounts).


  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Thanks Dan, I'm hoping to increase the training load (mileage and adding in some sessions too) over the rest of June and then hit a parkrun at the beginning of July to see if this little hiatus has had too much of an impact on race times. Originally (at the turn of the year) I had hoped to be back at pb levels by the end of June, but obviously that will not now be possible, so I have pushed expectations back to end of September!

    17 miles on a bike followed by a hilly trail 10k .... I think the phrase "pretty decent training load" might be a slight understatement! Sounds like you enjoyed it though!

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Dan - It certainly was a tough one last night, not my cup of tea at all as there are too many points where you lose momentum, especially those narrow steep snickets!

    Not a bad training day at all (for an old bloke anyway). It would seem that you can't wait to get into that new age category image

    You're right about the ladies race. We were running together and then at 7k HO took off! From being 10th female at 2k she was in 2nd at 7k. A spectator then shouted that she was 40secs behind. We knew the leader was a 16:30 5k/35:15 10K runner so there was no way of closing 40 secs over the last 3K. Or so you would think! Not only was it closed but there was a 15s margin by the end.

    This after winning Kent Roadrunner Marathon on Saturday (3:00), 1st female in the Westminster Mile parkrun wave on Sunday (5:13), winning the Ilkley trail race on Monday and the fact that we are supposed to be tapering for Derry Marathon in a couple of day's time. I'm knackered just thinking about it image

    Was that Ratzer I saw peering through the doorway? And Simon? It can't be far off a full house now in the last couple of weeks. Except Curly that is.......but she's getting married tomorrow, so thats a reasonable excuse.



  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    prf - how do either you or HO find time to work?! Great stuff though.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    I'm struggling today ... feel like I've done a marathon not a 10K!!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear uouve had avrough time, Simon. Though that's great that the coaching stuff all came together. 

    Prf, it's astounding what you pair manage.

    Good effort, Dr Dan.

    I've not done too much this week, though today I feel loads better within myself. My arms are still weakened but I have full use and plenty of strength for day to day functionality. I do keep getting paranoid that they are going again and have slept quite uneasily of late, waking to simply fidget my fingers. 


  • RatzerRatzer ✭✭✭

    I'm looking forward to Curly's report.  I heard she was aiming to come first in this one, so I hope she's not over exerted herself.

    SE, homeopathy has been proven to prevent credulous hypochondriacs becoming dehydrated.

    DrD and prf simply getting better with the wrinkling....

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I pulled out of my Welsh castles leg that was this pm, yestrday morning. I went  out for an easy 5 miler but running faster than 8.30mm was tough and afterwards and for most of weekend  I felt wiped out. 

    Decided im just going to have a complete  week off fitness. 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    DT - absolutely!! Surprised you even considered it.

    2000m open water swim on Sunday in 43 min ... went well (actually enjoy swimming in a lakeimage ... I wanted to do another 500m but time was up). Bike commute today with an easy 2.25 run straight off the bike in. Just aiming to keep ticking over this week. Day off work on Friday (the big FIVE OH), so should get 2 days complete rest before the tri. My start time is 7:36am, so it will be an early start on Sunday!!

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Had the South Downs Relay run on Saturday. Normally teams of 6 take on the 100 mile trail but one of our team managed to knacker himself last week so only ran one short stage, which meant divvying up the remaining mileage between the rest. Managed to complete the race in just over 13 hours total time. I ran the same first stage as I did last year - 7 miles with around 850ft climbing. Forgot how steep some sections were but ran this a minute or so quicker than previously so was pleased with that. My second stage was new to me and shorter at 4.2 miles but a brute of a climb in the second mile to add up to 600ft climbing. Started too hard so was playing catch up from the hill onwards and struggled in the second half. My third stage was again a new one to me, and definitely the hardest I've run - 6.5 miles and well over 1000ft climbing, started off steadier on the long initial hill of a mile or so long, picked up some speed across the top to get the average pace back down below 8:30's, but the last 2 miles consisted of three or four very steep hills, one of which I struggled to walk/scramble up completely killing the pace (which had sunk to 9:40 average by the end!). Still, averaged around our cut off target pace of 8:30ish and we breezed in around 20 minutes under our nominated time in the end. Great day out, brutal but good fun. I'm leaving it a few months before asking the team if they want to do it again next year! 

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Iower - The combination of heat and that amount of climbing does indeed sound brutal, well toughed out. Still good fun though?


    Dr Dan - 3 days! That's all you've got left to get the digs inimage


    It was a trip over to Derry for this Sunday's marathon. Boy, was it hot and humid! It was also hilly, which didn't help as no course profile was available and one of the organisers had described it as 'pretty much flat' on Saturday.

    To cut a long story short this resulted in getting the pacing wrong for the conditions, going through halfway at 2:52 pace. By 18 miles the heat had got me and I was forced to a standstill with stomach cramps When in 15th place. Race over.

    HO struggled too, as did everyone, but her slightly more cautious start helped. She started to pull away from me at 13 miles but by 21 miles was ready to drop out. However, there was only Pauline Curley, the Olympian and course record holder in front, and a sizeable gap to 3rd. With £600 for 2nd place she decided to ease right back and walk if necessary in an attempt to get to the finish without keeling over. 1-2 minutes of walking at 24 miles was necessary to bring it home in 2:56. Being presented with the prize by Martin McGuinness on the very spot by the Guildhall where the troubles started was a little surreal.


  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    parkrunfan ... you are human after all! Sensible decision ... there's always another marathon ... next week usually in your case! Well done to HO!

    My mum always told me to be kind to old folks, so I'm not sure I should spend 3 days getting digs in. image

    This week just involves Mon-Thurs bike commuting with two short runs with strides to keep the legs ticking over. I may swim tomorrow too. Otherwise, it's all about enjoying my 50th on Friday ... and getting set for the logistical nightmare of a split transition triathlon in a city with closed roads (hence impossible to get anywhere!) and a 7:36 start in Roundhay lake image.

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Yea brilliant fun, running is normally quite a selfish sport so to add the team element into it was really nice. This is the second time I've been lucky enough to do it and I was unsure if I'd go for it again, but the pain has already disappeared somewhat from my mind so feeling keen again, not sure if that's a good thing or not!

    Very sensible pulling out though.

    Easy 5.5 trail run yesterday eve, legs felt fine, no niggles really, couple of sharp hills brought back some aches from the weekend but nothing lingering at the end so pretty happy. Need to get cycling for my upcoming tri though, not ridden much for a couple of weeks!

    Good luck in Leeds Dan! I've had earlier starts - think Bewl Water tri a couple of years ago was 6am image

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Happy birthday, Dan! Enjoy the new age group!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff again from HO. Good decision prf.

    Happy 50 Dr Dan.

    I managed 3.6 miles last night. Felt much better than last week and stats almost normal.

    Trip to gp today. Said I had post viral neuropathy and will take another two weeks or so to be fully recovered. I've otherwise a clean bill of health as the hospital tested so many things and all good. Nice to know I don't have any underlying diseases.
  • WelshpoppyWelshpoppy ✭✭✭

    Happy Birthday 50th Birthday Dan

    Well after 5 weeks of walking 11 miles day I am on the comeback 1 mile yesterday and 2.5 miles today knee still not right but at least I can run on it.Still aiming for 11 miles a day just 2.5 of them is runningimage

    I have also lost weight only 19lb's to get to goal weightimage

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Thanks folks. image

    The birthday weekend was good fun ... ending with my 1st Olympic distance triathlon and then watching the elites. Went well ... run was tough but you can see from the results that I'm a runner. Just under 2000 completed the Olympic distance (1076th) and 100th /200 M50s. 2:46:05

    Split      Time       Place
    Swim     00:33:08 1303
    Bike       01:16:10 1272
    Run       00:46:25    521

    There was a Mancheter-esque bag disaster and more ... but I escaped the problems and had a great day.

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Dan well done, sounds like a great experience. Glad to hear you avoided all the problems.

    DT - Good news, must have all been pretty alarming.

    I had a good run at the 5.67 mile Blaydon race last Thursday. Finished in 32.36 which would translate into a 10k time I'd be very happy with. Slight caveat that the course is net downhill but a promising effort and 18 seconds faster than last year.  

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Morning MGers.image

    MrV - very nice race there.image

    Quiet week for me after the quad-mashing triathlon ... just bike commuting. I had my fastest commute of the year this morning, so think the legs are coming back (or perhaps there was a tail wind). Tempted to run today if I get the chance.

    The Abingdon campaign starts next week. I'm going to try to follow Hanson's advanced plan with some bespoke FIRST principles thrown in. The speed and tempo sessions are similar in Hanson and FIRST ... however, FIRST has a pretty speedy long run (maxing with 5 x 20 milers) 2-3 cross-training days, whereas Hanson's long runs are easier paced (max 3 x 16 miles) but follow the day after a "pre-long run" 2 other easy runs. I struggled with the FIRST HM plan speedy long runs, so prefer the latter Hanson approach. Also, Hanson will need some adaptation to take into account my obligatory bike commuting.... so I may drop one or both of the two easy "filler" runs, just so that I can keep the aged body together. I'm also keen to keep up the swimming, having been "forced" to swim by entering the tri, so would swim on the days I drop those easy runs. SO it would end up being somewhere between Hanson & FIRST.

    Hanson's schedule has longish runs on Sat and Sun but I need Saturday's free, so will ratchet everything along a few days, and attempt those runs on Tues & Wed instead. I think I could do this by leaving the bike at work Tues night, run commuting home and then back again Wed morning (extending the commute route to fit the required mileage). This leaves Sunday as the tempo day and Friday as the speed day (or a Sat parkrun whenever they are available).

    Plan is all scheduled into fetcheveryone's planner, so let's see if I can actually do it now!image

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Dr Dan - What's all this talk of an 'aged body'? You're nowt but a bairnimage And yes, you're definitely a runner looking at those stats.....

    Mr V - Nice Blaydon effort. As you say, worth sub 36 for 10K which would be very nice.

    Welshpoppy/DT - Hope the ailments are sorting themselves out.

    I've recently had a bit of an issue, which resulted in needing some pretty urgent surgery on my head. This took place on Friday and while I was recovering in the ward I knocked together a bit of a blog about what had happened. I was in two minds about whether to share it or not because it could be seen as scaremongering. However, it was read 2,000+ times in the first 24 hours and I have received a surprising number of messages from runners saying that they are going to learn from my mistake and be more careful in future. So, if it can be of positive benefit then please share away:




  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Will respond more fully tomorrow, but that does not make good reading, PRF! Hopefully all is well and the issue has been caught in time. Thanks for sharing the warning...and hope you have informed parkrun HQ and RW Towers. I, for one, will be taking more care and it has already made me very much aware how vulnerable other sports people are: for instance cricketers, and umpires, may well stand outside for six or seven hours a day.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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