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Doh, the curse of freak accidents continues...after surviving the trombone, this morning saw another piece of idiocy. For various reasons a coffee pot was sitting on the stairs down to the kitchen - I trod on it and went flying down the stairs,...thought an arm was broken at first but it just appears to be badly swollen/bruised, as is the left knee. Mara plans in doubt. What a muppet.
Oh no! Hope you recover quickly Poacher.
Gul- disused airfield laps doesn't sound much fun plus trying to remember how many laps you did near the end
Poacher- DOH ! Could have been much worse ..
1 rest day monday ,then back at it today with my first double in more than a year : 6 in the morn and 4 in the afternoon.. time to try something different
Belatedly but needed nonetheless - well done to Gul and Birch. Both sterling efforts and you should be very proud of those times. The best bit is you are both in one piece to capitalise on the fitness for the next cycle of marathon training!
PMJ - I like the idea of you pacing a 3:15 marathon and it fits in with your V50 plan too.
Jersey is lacking in numbers and variety but next year is the 1st Spring marathon that we will have on the Island. I have always said they should have pacers even if there are only say 300 runners in a marathon or half marathon. I have done pacing duties with friends for half marathons and 10k's and it's a great thing to do as long as the pacer is up to the task and sticks to it and I'm am certain you fit that category. I'm doing pacing duty for the November half here and it's just to help out some friends who are stuck on a number. All being well I'm confident that we can do it.
Gul - TR is most likely right in that you could have done with some extra energy to get you through the latter stages of your marathon in better form. Some folk get by on water but the general consensus is that it's not rocket science, We all learn and as you said earlier, trying to fit that into your training is key. I look forward to seeing you experiment.
Poacher - How bizarre but unfortunate nonetheless. Hope you're alright?
Leslie - Beat you to it. My rest day is always Monday and today I did a gentle 5k lunch run @ 7:48 pace and then did a progressive 8k hilly run this evening @ 7:35 pace. I do like these midweek doubles, it's double the fun of running!
(Not popular tonight as the rather airless studio honks of Deep Heat.
)
Poacher - hope there's no lasting damage done!
Leslie - nice double.
GM - trying to figure out how I can fit in some daytime training too and acclimatise to temperatures over 5C! Also considering beefing up my Friday run, being the day before my LSR, to see if that helps with endurance.
I did think about going out for a run this morning, but decided to take another rest day - as Abbers said, there's no rush.
Leslie
I've never really tried doubles and I'd be grateful for some insight behind the thinking.
How is 6 & 4 better than simply 10 in one go? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just interested in the reasoning and may try it myself if I can get my head around the concept...
Poacher: ouch! Heal well. If it's any consolation, I went A over T walking to work this morning and have a smashing graze on my left knee to prove it. Thankfully my rather nice trouser suit escaped untorn, although my dignity was in shreds...
Welcome back 40m. In terms of doubles, I think the theory is that it's a little easier on the body to do shorter runs (perhaps it doesn't work your endurance as much?) although the reduced recovery time also provides a training stimulus, which does seem a little contradictory. I just follow orders blindly!
Club session last night: 6 x 1km off 2 mins. Pleased with the final 5 (all in the 3.35 ballpark) after a slightly cautious 3.4x opener. Slightly disturbed to realise I was about twice the age of most of the freshers who had turned up (the university cross-country club tend to train with us, and this was their first session of the term).
Hi Joolska
Thanks for your thoughts on doubles; I'll consult with coach & see what she says.
Nice interval session; I struggle to keep K-reps under 4 minutes!
Had a look the results for the SPRING SHAKESPEARE RUNS
http://www.stuweb.co.uk/race/GN
and only 5 sub-3:15
GM, do you have a URL for Jersey spring marathon?
Gul - Abbers is right. There's no rush at all. I normally take at least 4/5 days off after a marathon.
Jools - That's a very tasty session there. A big 5k pb and not a Bubka one
, must be on the cards soon I reckon. Mind you the marathon is the focus hey. Not long now. I know 2 Jersey runners doing it as well.
40min - Re doubles:- apart from the obvious reasons of the time factor and adding miles to your week I do them for varying reasons. I would agree with Jools and say that for efficiency of recovery a double consisting of say 7 & 5 is much easier on the body than a 12. It's aparently good for boosting your metabolism too and that's something I need as I have a very slow metabolism. I read somewhere also that glycogen content, fat oxidation and enzyme actitivty increase too. There are downsides too like you feel tired and it feels like your constantly training but I just ignore those!
I did a 7k lunch run today in the howling wind along the seafront. I checked the live weather report when I got back and it said the windspeed was 30 knots! No wonder 8:30mm pace felt ridicolusly tough going out. Planning another run tonight a nice easy 10k and not into the wind.
Poacher - sounds like something out of Laurel and Hardy! Hope the arm and knee sort themselves out before Sunday. Just make sure you stay away from ladders!
Jools - ditto re avoiding any hazards. Glad to hear there was no damage to the suit!
I've always assumed doubles were as much about making use of available time as much as anything else. They also work well if you've got a commute (or a part of it) that you can run. That said, I'm sure I read somewhere that you get more benefit from a 10 mile run than a 5+5 double.
6 miles for me in the drizzle along the Thames this morning.
40mins- Re doubles I'm working 4x 12 hr shifts every 8 days and its much easier to do 6 miles after 12hrs than 10 at present as I'm just back after injury/sickness double (pun intended !) wammy and struggle now after 6 miles
.plus another idea is instead of say 10 miles at one pace you can do one of the runs at a harder pace to get a bit of speed in as well as things progress
Doubles are certainly not needed as such at the 40 miles/week I'm at now but I plan to much higher mileage again as this years lower miles/race everything strategy left me busted 3 weeks before my mara
and it takes a while to get used to them anyway.
I will be doing the long runs as well as fitness improves again and will be doing doubles only a couple of days to start with.
6+3.5m today after night-shift
still recovering here . . . .
Poacher - I hope your arm is recovering also ! Bit careless . . . .(leaving pot on stairs, or tripping over the thing). I'm certain you will be there at York . . . .
Leslie,Gerard - good doubling - double-double in GM's case . . .
Jools - getting close, now - and remember - you're supposed to avoid cracks in the pavement, not trip over them !
Gul - still thinking of your slowdown; from a nutrition perspective I believe it's important to carb load pre-race - eg here I made sure from Thursday meals were skewed towards carb content, so; thu muesli am, pasta pm, fri same am, large jkt spud pm, sat same am, risotto pm, sun am porridge. Sandwich/fruit lunch each day. Each day also SIS energy drinks (long-chain complex carbs) to complement the diet. I did 10 runs of 20 + miles in the buildup, 8 with just big mug of tea prior, but ate well prev day. Last two were a two x 10.5 laps, with hard sectors, so stashed a drink for halfway; last one was 7 x 5k loop with loops 2,4,6 harder, so had Luco after each harder bit. With the carb -load I'm confident I can stay relatively strong throughout even without sports drinks/gels on the way, but if they are available, I'll take them - eg at VLM I sip Luco at most opportunities. However, you say you started to fade at about 15, so perhaps more due to too fast a first half?
Endurance-wise, how many long runs? I like to do as many as I can, partly so I have the absolute knowledge during the race that my endurance is there, even when the voices start telling me to take it easy.
None of the above is suggesting you should duplicate, just throwing a few ideas around based on my own approach - if others chip in with their two-pennorth, you'll maybe have some theories to mull over ready for next time.
Cheers
x-post - double v. impressive on a night shift day !
Birch - Hope your recovery speeds up and you're back out there soon, but not too soon. I have to say reading your post to Gul, you certainly prepared as best as you could and it's no wonder you're still able to run great times. Kudos!
PMJ - Yes. It's http://www.hareandtortoiseevents.co.uk/easter-egg-marathon/4579740340
Just a bit of background info if you're interested in doing it. I know the race director, he is an ex road runner who has become interested in Ultra's etc and is a bit of a free spirit type. He has run some successful events here in the past few years that appeal to all types of runners and I admire him for doing that. The course itself is not the same as the Autumn one and when I last spoke to him we discussed the profile and it's on there if you have a look. I would be interested to hear your thoughts. I may do it myself.
Ouch Joolska - careful now
Arm very swollen, knee painful. Will decide whether to run on the day but as things stand will turn up and give it a bash, unless an accident involving a ladder or a piano intervenes
Plenty of sense talked about doubles. A long back to back (15-20m over consecutive day) is also a form of double - aimed at cutting the injury risk but also aimed at forcing one to run while tired - kind of different from doing short doubles which are often/mostly used for time management and upping weekly mileage
Leslie - it doesnt get any more glamorous than night shifts in Salford - can you beat that for a c*appy location in which to while away the dark hours
Careful now people we get enough running injuries without adding to the carnage
Poacher- cant compete with that sort of glitzy glamour no , soon be bedtime and no doubles today as I need to switch back to daytime mode again
! Id like to try back to back 20's one day but have often ran 10+ miles the day before a longun so know how tired legs feel 
Jools - very speedy reps. Can't be long to go now.
PMJ - OK, maybe not the ideal choice then.
GM - bit windy down your way then!
Leslie - good use of time to work around your shifts.
Birch - I usually eat plenty of carbs, but a bit silly not to eat a few more and do some carb-loading pre-marathon. Live and learn!
Poacher - when you say a long back to back is aimed at cutting injury risk, I presume you mean instead of running the whole lot in one go!
2 miles d&d this morning. Recovery going well.
Poacher, I'm now worrying about a truck from your local rake factory spilling its load outside your front door.
Thanks everyone for the thoughts on doubles.
Club run yesterday revealed that my legs are still carrying some residual effects from Sunday's race - they did not like going up any sort of incline quickly!
What sort of mileage are you all on currently? I managed 167 for September, which is on the high side for me outside of a marathon training programme.
Last month..... 121
that did include a week recovery from an ultra at the start of the month and part of a week injured at the end
Hi Guys, good to see you're all cracking on well.
Belated congratulations on your mara the other week Birch & Gul - they're never easy! Your marathon report reminds me of my last one in Manchester Gul. Starting off fine then struggling like mad in the end. I think my biggest mistake (after probably getting the early pace wrong) was to stop. Once you stop that's it, your muscles start seizing up and it's near on impossible to get going again as usual.
On the subject of doubles, I agree with Joules that doing smaller distances is easier to do. I did a 24 team race last month which consisted of 6 miles laps. I managed 7 in the 24 hour period and running 42 miles like that was easier than running a marathon! We had roughly 3 hours inbetween each lap to get a bit of food & rest.
Poacher & Jools - steady on! Running's dangerous enough, without finding new and unusual was of getting injured. Keep yourselves in one piece for marathon time!
KR - good to see you posting again.
Last month's mileage? Approximately 6. To be followed by roughly 0 this month.
X-training continues, although with the added excitement of a round of redundancies apparently happening on Monday (we've been waiting for it for ages), I may have a lot more free time on my hands soon to go cycling in daylight!
40 mins - I managed 175 in Sept and would hope to be getting up to the 200 mile mark from now until Comrades.
Gul - have you managed to build staying in bed beyond 5am into your recovery programme?
KR - that's a good number of laps to have covered. It must be quite strange having such a lengthy interval but knowing you've got to get out and run 6 miles again. Is there any conventional wisdom on the benefit of running heptuples (is that a word?)
Abbers - hope it's not too grim on Monday. Any other irons in the fire just in case?
8 hilly miles for me this morning.
KR - good to have you back ! Impressive 42 there - another joining the burgeoning list of silly distances
40 mins - 209 in Sept, the month included start of Mable taper; 32.2 in Oct so far (none this week)
Abbers - hope you avoid the cull . . . .
September? 287. No wonder I'm bloody knackered.
40 mins - only 84 miles in sept for me
, but Id usually be hoping for around 200 which is a nice round number 
Kr - 42 miles !
Abbers - it must be time for a comeback soon ! Hows the cricket injury saga ? See Steve way is having 3 months of work too to train harder !
Lorenzo- good total.
Jools - that's excellent miles leading up to a mara .
up and straight out the door for 9 Zombie-like miles this afternoon
Got better as I went on 
Poacher, glad to hear you're feeling well enough to give it a go. Honking of deep heat...love it...
I've never done a double. Thought about it several time but then just ended up getting the full distance done in one. Guess I'm too impatient. Most of the time though would be really difficult to fit the pre- and post-run stuff in 2X in a single day. I'm too trampled as it is w/work/kids/life.
I ended up with 238 miles in September and just checked and saw my year total is hovering at 1887. My progression has gone from about 200 miles per year 2007-2010, then 1007 (2011), 1712 (2012) and 1991 (2013). Wondering how long it really takes to build an aerobic engine...got a late start so hoping I can keep getting faster but age will start digging in (I'm 41 now).
Last subLT session today in the cold wind (10m w/6 fast). Everything working and in one piece. Still a bit tired overall, but think that's how I'm supposed to feel 10 days out. Been checking the weather and feeling bipolar (yesterday's race day prediction was 70s and sunny (no!) and today it was 56 and cloudy (better!)...taper madness has begun
).