Sub 3h15

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  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Great result in the half, SBD - indicates good prospects for your marathon  . . .   
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Anyone got any advice how to run a 20 mile race during marathon training?.  I've got one planned in the middle of March, but can't decide if to run the whole thing at long run pace or do say last 12 miles at MP.  Which do you think will benefit more come marathon day?.  Thanks
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    MrSoft - I'm doing Cranleigh 21 and plan on doing at least 15 miles of it at MP. Never tried anything like this before, so it will be interesting.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Mr Soft, I did 20 milers in 2016 and 2017 campaigns and found them to be a hugely beneficial exercises. I will be doing the same again mid March. It's not just about the run, but the build up. Whilst I don't taper I use it as an opportunity to mini carb load and wear full race day kit. On the day it is a good opportunity to practice the nutrition plan also.

    People tackle them in different ways. For me I want to run them at an even pace for 20 mlies so I aim to run them around 10-15 seconds per mile slower than mp. The twice I have done this I've finished feeling like I could certainly keep that pace for another 6 and has given me the confidence for my race plan. Plus, it has not left me too tired to train the following week.

    The biggest mistake is to get caught up in the event and race it. There's no glory in a great 20 and a poor marathon 5 weeks later.

    G-Dawg- 15 miles at mp is a decent and big session. I think the biggest p & d do is 18 with 14 at mp (upto 55 schedule). If you go into the race without firm limits you will end up doing the full 21 at mp.

    Had some robust physio last night on niggly area. Pretty sore today from the pounding. Planning a 10 mile mlr tonight with a mate at very easy effort. Also a parkrun Saturday morning as conditions look close tp perfect around here. Last parkrun I did was in August when out of nowhere i smashed 35 seconds off a pb that had stood for over a year. No idea how close I could get to that right now.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    MrSoft - good effort for your MLR. Never done a 20 mile race, but I'd say build up to MP and do 15, say, like GD suggested.
    GM - tasty reps especially given the headwind.
    RunningGas - nice recovery run.
    SBD - good action shot.
    Lorenzo - enjoy the warm weather and running along the prom.
    GD - very nicely done.
    DT19 - hope the pounding was worth it!
    I was hoping to do a long run today as the rest of the family are on holiday, but I overslept again :( So just time for 10 miles with 6 x 0.5 mile efforts (2:59, 2:59, 2:59, 3:04, 3:03, 3:03) - still struggling to find that little extra bit of speed.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Any of you doing London had a look at the RW pacer section that seems to have recently appeared? Looking at my number I'm on green start so this is my pacer if I decide to have a go at sub 3-

    http://www.runbritainrankings.com/runners/profile.aspx?athleteid=77050

    https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/pacing/pace-team

    It looks like he has paced sub 3 in last 3 London's, however he doesn't seem to have raced a marathon since 2014.

    Good effort Gul. My family are on holiday Sunday to Friday next week. Planning a lot of training!

  • DT19, Lee has run sub-3 most years. Look at his po10 profile:

    http://powerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=77050 

    He was one of the 2012 Asics 26.2 team the same year Knight Rider got on the team.

    https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/game-on-asics-target-26.2-team-progress-check

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Interesting read, PMJ and looking at his 2012 mara it clearly made a huge difference for him.

    I think my point in noting the last 3 years was that he has run it at 2.58.xx each of the last 3 years and this is some way off his best so my assumption was that he has been on sub 3 pacing duties the last 3 years.

    Tried to find him on strava but doesn't appear to come up on a search.

  • Promising visit with the physio today; all things weighed up I'll be OK to run Brighton and most likely London as long as it continues how it is. Despite some pain and discomfort when I first run and soreness after; as long as I keep working on the excercises etc I won't make it worse.

    So hoping for a good, consistent run at Brighton now and gauge that for expectations at London.

    Good run @Gul Darr - putting those efforts in during what I'd still consider a lengthy run is impressive

    @MrSoft - the best 20+ miler I did in training last year was using a half marathon as part of it - I was in London so took a tube to Richmond, ran along the river to Hampton Court and did the Palace half at a faster pace - timed it nicely so I didn't have to wait around at the start and the morning run on the Thames was delightful. Obviously this technique is not always possible but it was an enjoyable morning. If there's no 20ish races available it's a good way of pushing the speed in the latter miles; if that makes sense.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Nicko - Sounds positive on the physio visit.  I like Brighton HM - you just have to book early!

    DT19 - Sub 3 pacer off the green start is a good combination.

    That's not a bad turn of speed in those reps Gul.  Have you found a race to target yet?

    At least the vest has changed OO!

    Never quite managed to enter a 20 mile event - I'm not sure I would want to do more than 14 miles at MP.

    9 easy miles today, just managed to squeeze them in before it turned dark.

    VO2max intervals scheduled for tomorrow - should be fun!

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    10 cold, dark, undulating, wet and windy miles tonight. Was going to play with the speed but my pal needed to change start venue and course straight from work so we just settled on a steady session. 7.20 pace and miles collected.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    SBD, i ran off the green start last year, having previously run off blue and red. Really hated the green start. Way too many people for the number of toilets and size of the start.

    Similar for me, 10 miles at 8.10mm. Nice and easy. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Mr Soft I've always run a 20 miler in March but usually go flat out and try for a PB- so a bit faster than marathon pace. Most wisdom says this is a bad idea. This year I'm running Barca marathon in March at a much slower pace, pacing a friend on his 1st marathon. Will be interesting to see what difference it makes come the main event.

    I'm having a cut back week. It's the North-East Vets road race champs this Saturday and my team are defending their gold medal. We have a good team of V50s+ which includes our star- the V55 mile world record holder, Guy Bracken. Basically he carries the rest of us.   

  • DT19 said:

    Tried to find him on strava but doesn't appear to come up on a search.

    Maybe https://www.strava.com/athletes/27199798

    20 mile training run 6:49 average, spot on 3 hour pace.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1391883708


  • DT19 - nice easy run. Are your family going away on holiday?
    nick - good to hear it's looking promising for you. I have to do a good warm-up before any speedwork, so those sessions are usually at least 9 miles.
    SBD - enjoy the VO2 Max. I actually saw daylight at the end of my run yesterday as I had the luxury of finishing late (7am).
    GD - good pace for a steady run.
    OO - enjoy the cut-back and have a good race this Saturday.
    8 mile recovery this morning (8:44m/m).
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Daylight at the end of the run is tough Gul - good recovery miles.

    Has anyone run New York?  Tomorrow is the deadline for claiming a qualifying place direct.  The alternative being to go through the international tour operator.

    I know Birch and Poacher have done Boston.   Did you just organise yourselves and what are your thoughts on how far in advance of race day to arrive?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    pmj- I looked at this profile but the pb list was way off, plus this guy looks younger with more hair.

    Gul, yes they are flying out to spain sunday afternoon to meet up with my in-laws as they have a place out there. Nice recovery running.

    For me, I would say night time at the start of a morning run would be tough!

    Gym day for me today, so bodypump then tri club spin session double tonight.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    SBD - I did Boston last year. Took the whole tribe with me and we had a week in New York first before getting the train up to Boston. By then the jet lag had gone and getting up for the early race start was tough (I'm rubbish at mornings).

    In October I'm doing Chicago, just me and the wife going this time. We're going just 2 days before the race. Chicago start is at 07.30, so I should still be nicely jet lagged with that time of the morning feeling easy for me, no need to acclimatise. 

    Didn't do either trip with a travel company, we like to source our own flights and hotels, all part of the fun and adventure.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    pmj- Actually digging further it is the right guy as ive been able to match up a couple of races. He is racing about 10 seconds a mile faster than I would expect to.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    SBD - flew to Boston on the Friday , arriving around teatime there. Race Monday, so had Sat/Sun to adjust, which felt ok, though probably not "optimum" .  Arranged our own hotel/flights  . . .   
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Saw this just and thought it was slightly interesting/relevant.

    https://www.fetcheveryone.com/marathonprediction

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the feedback Birch and G-D - I seem to have accidently entered New Year and will start planning the logistics once the application is accepted.  This could be a busy 18 months!

    I'm beginning to get bored with these windy conditions.  A track session this afternoon in the wind and rain - 14K in total with 6 sets of 800m - reps coming out at 3:03 - 3:09 - so clearly some work to do! 

  • That predictor seems to err on the slow side for half marathon to marathon compared to others I've looked at.

    Looking at 1:31 half it predicts a marathon of 3:23:09 

    Runners World one, without any other data predicts 3:09:44
    Running Training Plan predicts 3:11:40
    Running foundation predicts approx 3:12

    All the faster ones seem more like what people have been saying on here about conversions and also what I experienced last year (1:31 half to 3:12 full)

    I don't actually know what my point is, just bored while I sit here with my feet in an ice bucket.

    4.5 miler last night felt like sub 7 minute miles; turned out to be averaging 7:45 :-1:

    Late evening treadmill session slightly better 3 mile, 1 min rest, 2 mile, 1 min rest, 1 mile - all at 6:40. Didn't intend to have the 1 minute rests but felt it was necessary. Still getting the pain at the start of the runs, but at least making it through and keeping to the physio advice. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nicko, it's based on a load of actual data stored in the fetch system, but yes I'd agree it's not near as pleasing on the eye as most other predictors. It's probably more accurate than mcmillan though which is unduly positive.

    planning an mp run again tomorrow. Wind forecast doesn't look helpful. 
  • @DT19 ah I see - to be honest, I didn't fully read the article and can only base conversion times on myself and people I know.

    Interesting that if that's based off actual data, most of the other pace calculators are very optimistic!
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    My current conversion is 1.26 to 3.09 - double plus 17 mins (Surrey and Abingdon).

    Previous ones were:

    (2016) 1.27 to 3.11 - double plus 17 mins (Surrey and London)
    (2016) 1.27 to 3.09 - double plus 15 mins (Surrey and Berlin)
    (2015) 1.29 to 3.13 - double plus 15 mins (Surrey and Brighton)
    (2014) 1.31 to 3.19 - double plus 17 mins (Surrey and Brighton)

    So the old rule of thumb of double it and add 20 seems to ring fairly true for me.
    I will say that windy weather conditions at Abingdon cost me a few mins.
    Have not included Boston (3.19) last year as the heat made that event brutal and turned it into just a matter of survival.
  • Lorenzo - That sounds great. We should defo meet up. OO, cool, I'm flying out early Sat am and back Sunday afternoon.
  • SBD - normally it's no daylight at the beginning or end. On a calm and dry day, those reps would be quicker I imagine.
    nick - that marathon predictor gives me a time somewhere in the region of what I think I am capable of, but I've never got anywhere near it other than in training. Double plus 37 for me! Or unofficially double plus 20 which sounds more like it.
    Rest of the family still off work/school and I managed to get up on time today, so finally did my long run. 18 miles with 3 warm-up and 15 @ 7:44. And another daylight finish.


  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Has anyone had experience of groin pain while running?. I think I may have strained something in my groin as been experiencing pain when running for last 4 runs.  I have decided to rest up for at least a week so I think I will need to readjust my target time.  
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    The Fetch predictor is interesting but I wonder if it errs towards a more "typical male" conversion rate and so comes across as more conservative?  McMillan is quite accurate for me.

    On the topic of 20 milers, I haven't included any in my marathon build ups but would have thought how you tackle them is a function of: (a) how many weeks you have to D-Day (b) how well you recover from hard efforts on LRs (c) whether you need to develop mental resilience from these LR race efforts (d) whether you lack confidence in MRP ability and (e) if your training schedule looks like it might be compromised by racing it.  What DT said nails it though: nothing to be gained by racing it hard and fluffing up the main event.
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