Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Sub 3h15
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Mennania- as far as PD is concerned I am struggling to find anything negative to say about as it ' did what it said on the tin' for me. I refused to do the doubles which are aimed at the more elite types I think and I didn't do any race tune ups but did some extra tempo/ vo2 max type runs for these. I also did an extra 22 miler on a 20 day as I was not satisfied with my first attempt at 22. I trained at sub 3 paces throughout. On the long MP run i did 14 mikes at av 6.45 so was on the money fitness wise, but ran a 3.10/11 strategy on the day which delivered a 3.13. This was planned once I discovered how difficult the course was and the added strength of training faster really helped on the hills on the day. Realistically knowing what I know now I could have maybe broken 3.10 but ran conservatively. Positive split but not too bad considering the course. 1.35 plays 1.38. Im going to use PD again for up and coming spring campaign. I don't think I am qualified or experienced enough to add more than this. Hope that helps a bit?
He's targeting a spring marathon of sub 4.15. Willing to train 5/6 days a week upto 50 miles. Coming off a base mileage of 30 a week for 12 months or so. Did a half recently in 1.46 so his target is very conservative but he is a big guy 17 stone.
Dylan - It helps quite a bit - thanks. I struggle through work to have a rigid approach to training, as I regularly dont get home as planned so doubles are just not an option for me. Might need to rearrange the P&D order a bit too.
Brilliant report BikeIT - well written.
OO - yes Manchester is 28th April, a week after London I think. I was thinking I might do an 18 week campaign and start around Xmas time.
10 tough miles last night. The longest I have run in 2 weeks of inactivity and slightly more beer drinking than normal. Interetsing chat about plans etc. I'm feeling more comfortable running 5 - 6 times a week now it feels normal even not in mara training mode. The last 2 weeks felt strange not going out as much, but I think well needed. I think we all need to take a step back every now and again to recharge.
Congrats Mini, sounds a tough race, what was the prize?
It's far too early to start thinking about VLM plans for me, I won't start specific mileage for that until end of Jan or Feb time. I will be doing lots of long runs in the mean time but slowly, hilly, and watchless! Based on the fell running success in the run up to Amsterdam, I have found the perfect tune up race 1 month before VLM, the Edale Skyline, 21miles with 4500ft of ascent
Jools - I reckon we could get a sub 3 female train going at VLM, as long as you guys don't tell me paces or splits!
Great report, BikeIt! It took me right back to my last marathon which was Abo and how I messed up the pacing completely! You did awesome (Californian speak).
Delighted for Minni on the podium finish! Photos please?
Still no running here. In midst of course of oral steroids to try to combat this ongoing inflammation in my Achilles. If this doesn't work there was mention of injection of blood plasma which sounds all rather scary in light of recent revelations about those dodgy TdF cyclists!
Have a good week all. Hallowe'en here which is A Big Thing in America. Am bracing myself...
Belated congratulations to Sal.
SJ Very well toughed out. You seem to be taking it in the right spirit.
Jools Nice time. How is the foot today?
Minni Very well done, Great time on a tough course, plus a podium finish.
BikeIt Great report. Very well done fighting the head demons.
MsE Hope the achilles sorts itself out. If you suddenly run a 2:30 mara we will know why.
I believe I may have been as drunk as Minni yesterday. Drinking in the house all day and swearing heavily didn't impress the wife for some reason.
No running since my fall last Tuesday. The shoulder hurts when I lift things, so just a slight strain. My logic is better to miss a week now rather than later.
As a sign of guilt, I went out and bought a new shiney pair of K-Swiss running shoes today. All ready for the hills later this week.
Congrats Bike it. Not only for the PB but a 9 minute improvement on an already good time is quite exceptional.
Scooby you are bad dog.
Minni - true marathon racer - you know how to celebrate properly !
BikeIt - congratulations on a fine PB - and a brilliant report - shows how decision making and mental toughness is important in later stages - "21st mile I get overtaken – it’s the first time since the early miles and I just go with the guy" - illustrates you were racing, not just solo time trialling.
Fancy your wife disapproving of that classic display of British weekend behaviour scooby. Very unreasonable.....
Haha - well he can eat his words Fraser!
The deal was I hadn't marathon trained and only done 3* 20 miles in the run up. It was going to be run at an easy pace and I managed to twist his arm and get him to agree to 3:30 pace. But the truth was I felt quite confident. I know the course well and I really like it. It really suits me, possible could be classed as more of a xc course yesterday, with the laps and the hills. Remember I said a couple of weeks ago that I found Peterborough a bit too flat?
So, I decided that I would set off at around 3:20 pace and see what happened.
I stuck to my game plan of running around 7:40 and didn't allow myself to be dragged off too fast. 7:40; 7:38; 7:35; 7:41; 7:34; 7:35. Nice first lap. I felt completely relaxed and not phased at all.
Lap 2: 7:44, 7:27, 7:48, 7:21, 7:40. By this stage I was starting to catch up with some of the ladies ahead. The lady in first position was aiming for 3:02 so she was well and truly out of the picture. I was probably in about 6th place during this lap.
Lap 3: 7:49, 7:47, 8:07, 7:16, 7:38. By the end of this lap I was in third place and ran on my own from here on. Not ideal but I felt totally in the zone and wasn't bothered at all.
Lap 4: 7:50, 7:48, 7:58, 7:58, 7:46. By the end of this lap knew that I wouldn't catch second lady because she was about a minute ahead of me and was running strong. But, I also knew that fourth place wouldn't catch me unless something went really wrong, and I didn't feel it was going to. It was a lovely position to be in and I starting thinking ahead to the afternoon and evening of drinking ahead and realised I didn't have to kill myself on the last lap. I was going to finish with a good time and in a great position so slack off a bit and enjoy.
Lap 5: 7:58, 8:24, 8:11, 8:27 (even stopped at this water station and thanked the volunteers!), 7:46, 7:54 (0.3) and through the finish line.
I am questioning my sanity because it was cold and windy with long stretches of mud and water, the headwind was strong going across the moor, and I ran about half of it completely on my own with the next runner a minute or so ahead, and yet I loved every minute of it. I was even a bit disappointed when I reached the last lap and knew it was going to be over.
3rd Lady, 1st V40, 19th overall in 3:25:17.
I yes Birch, I celebrated properly moving from beer to wine to shots by 11pm!
I agree. Beer, wine and then spirits - very impressive recovery drinking
Great report Bikeit and well done on resetting goals mid race to bring home a 3.10.xx.
Sub 3 beckons for another two sub 3.15ers!
Does this instructor charge you money to teach you how to run 'properly' by any chance? I looked at this a while back. The runners on youtube look great running, very fluid, upright and a lovely style. I am sure it is better than 'normal' running. But....What is the problem you are trying to fix?
In order to becme a POSE runner you need to go right back to basics and lean to run 'properly' all over again. This will take a couple of years to do properly. It is a bit like typing. I can type reasonably well with 3 fingers. Not beautiful, not terribly efficient, but god enough. If I wanted to type properly I am going to have to totally relearn and spend a couple of years retraining myself. Is it really worth the effort?
Look at your cover of P&D. I think the photo was taken at a marathon world champs or Olympics.
Check out the Mongolian guy. I am not saying Mongolian's are world class runners, but that is one hell of a heel strike. Yet he is in a world championship level event. RJ is another heel striker, yet obviously not slow.
Sure, there are little things we can focus on to improve our form slightly. This winter I am following these tips and am currently trying to stand up straighter, hold my hands higher (a constant issue for me) and take smaller quicker strides. But these are just things I am thinking about occassionally. I am not trying to relearn everything (and paying someone for the privilage).
Like all these running fads - barefoot, POSE etc I think it is a great alternative if you are having problems. Barefoot Ted tried everything possible before he finally found that running barefoot solved all his woes. However even someone as enthuastic as he is, says that unless you are suffering from repeated injuries, don't try to fix a non-existant problem.
Big respect to you Minni on your post marathon result - making your way from beer and wine for a final sprint of spirits. Hope you didn't leave anything on the course!
Bike it- great report, its a fantastic feeling when you break tough time barriers. Next hurdle sub3 then?
Keir- thanks for the links you've posted recently. I read through the Hadd article and it makes a lot of sense (or maybe I'm just gullible). It's kind of what I was planning to do up until the new year, lots of slow running. I ran 14 miles on Sunday keeping my heart rate below 75% max, legs felt surprisingly heavy.
Just had a look at a few of those youtube vids, the one with lance Armstrong winning Hawaii half IM in a very impressive time of sub 4 hours! Shame he's such a f***ing cheat.
For me, there is a problem. I get an injury every single campaign and even if a form change doesn't directly make me quicker then a reduced injury rate will give me a much higher consistency which will make me quicker anyway. I've been trying some of the things he advocates for the past few months and I'm sure it has helped but it is a) difficult to break out of bad habits and b) not easy to spot your own bad habits - which is where I think another set of eyes might help. I think I'm going to give it a go since I spend plenty of money on physiotherapy so a portion of that budget should be spent on preventative measures
Minni!! Rockin' photo there girl - nice one
Makes sense in your case then SJ. Was it a competitor radio interview with PJ? I heard it over the summer and it got me thinking about form. I am generally a slouched shoulder person and my arms hang low when running (think Orangatan with longer legs, and not as ginger). Now every easy run I do I concentrate of keeping my arms at belly button height. It gives me something to think about.
That's better Bike It! Great report.
Minni - loved your report too. Quite how you can enjoy that hideous course is beyond me though! First lady was the girl that Sal and I ran most of VLM with this year. Who was second?
I appear to be coming down with something, which is bloody typical as I go on holiday on Wednesday. Temperature, sore throat.....
Excellent progression....through the drinks selection Minni. Sounds like an enjoyable race, wish I'd done it now.
My legs are killing me today - stairs are not my friend
Just delurking for a mo...I was at the Town Moor with Minni and can confirm the wine was flowing and the shots were revolting...but also that Minni finished the night on coffee and hot chocolate
Actually I didn't see that (I'd gone to bed by then - lightweight!) but was told on good authority!
Speedy - I'm with you on the TM course - even without any mud or wind I'd have found that hard going, just because of all the twists and turns. There were a few places with really sharp turns that just take all the rhythm out of your running. But as an event I thought it was great - the marshals were brilliant all the way round and a good atmosphere. Certainly different from the VLM
Oh, and 2nd place lady was Andrea Dennison (a Bingley runner I think) - she came through the field like a train after a couple of laps which I think was deliberate (starting slowly).
I think yesterday's race was at least 5 minutes slower than a fast, flat, windless course, probably closer to 10 really. So Minni's result was exceptional, especially as she hadn't really trained for it! I'm not sure 3.15 is within my ability yet (I snuck under 3.30 by 7 seconds), but will train for 3.20 at the VLM and see what happens.
Minni Great report and photo. Well deserved drink afterwards as well.
BikeIt Just re scanned your report. It seems you ran the first half in exactly the same time as the second half. Even more impressive.
Keir Just had a look at that first video. On my long runs I use a Skins A200 top and as soon as I put it on it seems to correct my naturally slouchy posture. I definately feel like I am running upright. I bought another one yesterday in prep for my mid week medium runs.
At last time to catch up...
SJ - I'm really sorry I completely missed your race! Sounds
. You like to make it hard for yourself! 
Another one ticked off though, so well done.
Speedy is binging!
I like it!
Glad the GSR went well after the foot injury Jools. Sounds like you're in a good place. Imagine its almost a year since you did your epic 'Running Home for Christmas'. Is London your marathon?
Great to see Kier back and love the new pic!
Lorenzo - I did the beetroot juice again this time. Stepped it up a gear and took it for 6 days. Devil that I am!
I do all the faster stuff on my own and find the garmin is enough to push me. I have joined another club as second claim though and hope to make the odd track session with them, although its a long journey.
Knight Rider - you're a great advert for the Asics competition. Are you tempted to get coaching again for your next marathon?
Great report Bike it. And congrats on the time. Well and truly under 3:15.
P&D I followed it in 2011 and it worked for me and finally got me under 3:30. However, I knew if I followed it again I wouldn't improve much more, which is why I then decided to go for coaching.
MsE - can't believe your injury is still going on. Such bad luck for you. Fingers crossed it'll soon be healed and you can get back to mixing with the US elite.
Scooby - hope the hangover's gone!
Speedy - She was a V45 and very much looked the part. I'd stalked before and after the race and she's run some very good times. Marathon: 2:55, half 79:53. Andrea Dennison. We ran the end of the third lap together and she offered me some of her gel. She must have thought I needed it! One of the marshals had my gels so I didn't need to carry anything. She pulled away from me at the start of the 4th when I stopped to tie my lace. I chatted to her afterwards and she said the marathon is being used as one of the Championship races next year (missed which one) and that was why she'd come to do it this year - suss out the course.
Freemers - great to see you posting on here. If that course is worth 5 or 10 minutes then you ran the equivalent of 3:20 - 25, so 3:15 is well within your reach too.
What Freemers has fail to say if she has been out for months (exactly how many Freemers?) with injury and just came back in time to do a 16 week build up to this marathon, so to run 3:29 is much more impressive that my efforts on Sunday.
Minni - thanks but I wouldn't say that...I did do that HM in May don't forget, although I'd rather not remember the time I finished
. I guess it was really from the week after VLM 2011 through to about end January 2012 that I did virtually no running apart from those few attempts when I ended up crying at how much my knee was hurting 
. I suppose when I analyse it (and as I told you) - I didn't do enough longer tempo-paced runs this time around, and didn't build enough MP into any of my long runs. So although I knew I had the distance in my legs I did have that nagging doubt my speed endurance would be lacking. I know that's the main thing I need to do differently for next time. That and maybe less wine...or is that taking things too far? 
BTW, my first thought when the V45 zoomed past me was "I wish I could look like that in short shorts from behind"
. She had a great running style, and it's no wonder she has that 2.55 to her name.
I'll try and post a bit more on here. I do lurk because it is great to see how the faster runners are doing things and see how I can get faster. I lurk on the sub 3 too, but mainly because my brother is on there so I'm just stalking him really
...but they are all so super quick it's sometimes more difficult to translate their training into mine!
Well done Freemers and welcome to the thread- lots of speedy ladies on here. Also several of us aiming for VLM next year.
Freemers, you'll do well to keep posting on here - lots of good advice & people.
Having a coach for another marathon campaign would be awesome Minni! Although I dont think I could enter the competition again. I'll probably lurk and try and some info.
I've just managed to have a big catch up on at the goings on on this forum after a weeks holiday.
In no particular order (as I can't actually remember the order)
Minni - great run there on a tough sounding course. Nice to get some metalware too
Jools - very impressive time for 10m
Sal - absolutely brilliant performance
SJ - a good half marathon - impressed you started actually and give it a good go.
JD3 - excellent first marathon and thanks for your write up. More to come from you I think
Regarding POSE (and Chi Running) they are basically the same as running with good form, i.e. running in the style of David Rhudisa. I've tried to improve my running form over the last 1.5 years as I just would run quite hunched up and bended at the hips. It takes a long time to improve - my limit was and still is a lack of functional strength mainly in the lower back and hamstrings, limited core stability and limited flexibility. I found the first thing to do it to check your cadence - it needs to be around 180 and I was at 160 when I started. I ran a lot with a metronome program on my startphone to increase it to 180. The next thing is to find where you need to improve your functional strength and core stability. Here a pro does help - but I would actually think your physio would be the best person to advise on that.
Anyway, my physio tells me he has a lot of people come to him seeking repair after they suddenly start Chi/POSE running - the strength needs to be there and then you can slowly transition to a good form.
Now I am at a level where sub3 would seem attainable so probably I would go for it. My focus until June next year will be Comrades. Then I would probably try a fast autumn marathon and again in spring 2014.
For November and December, my focus will be on strength and speed. With that in mind I went and ran a flat-out mile to get a baseline. Managed 5:37 which compares with 5:45 I did in March on a course with a 30m downhill. Progress
I've just been looking the TM up on the Runbritain site Freemers and the SSS (SSS is a measure of the speed of the course and conditions on the day and is used to adjust the basic handicap scores so times on slow, average and fast courses can be directly compared. The lower the value, the faster the course on the day) is 3.8 compared to 0.4 at GER a couple of weeks earlier. Perhaps we're closer to sub 3 that we think!
KR Change your name and go in drag?