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Sub 3h15
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Gul - if it was running by feel i'd take it as a good sign
How's the shoulder Scooby?
Gul - You seem to be running well and injury free. What's that's the long term plan?
SJ - Listen carefully to your body during the race. It is easy to mistake niggles with injuries when the adrenaline is flowing.
Squeezed in a not very sensible 17m after work and before the tri club core session yesterday. All between 7.45 - 8m/m - controlled by upper limit of 75% of max HR. Tired and thirsty today.
Gul Dar- my race report was riddled with typos and grammatical errors. Sorry! I was typing with one hand on a tablet and working on the laptop with the other though and during working hours. I assume I am excused?
2 x 6 mile recovers for me since Sundays marathon. Ridiculous pace though (9.30) my quads are so sore! Plan to do a similar run everyday this week and a leisurely 10 on Sunday. I really would like to do a spring marathon but don't think my wife is going to be impressed if I launch into another 18 week PD schedule with all the time and commitment that takes!
Gul I would count the 7 as a good sign
SJ Good luck for the weekend.
My shoulder is fine, but still get pain when I lift it, so I have decided not to run today. Spent this afternoon lying under the sink changing a tap, which did not help. Back away at work next week, so if I don't run before I don't. Just frustrating as I was really starting to enjoy it again.
x post
Keir Nicely squeezed in
AR I would think resting/recovery is more important than running this week.
Standard P&D or the modified 3:15 thread version with a few extra long runs? Looks like you are starting out string with a 17 in mid October. I am struggling with 13/14 miles at the top at the moment.
Anyone else listen to the marathon talk podcast with Jocelyn Payne in it? Cracked out a 2:53:30 at Berlin to give her #1 U23 ranking by 17 minutes and 38th overall. She did 5 weeks with 100+ miles and was running a long run of over 20 miles plus cool up and down plus extra in the day so she was doign over 26 a day. Long runs were 14 easy and 8@MP. Seems none of this MP+20% MP+10%, it was all MP+40% (9 or 10 minutes a mile) or MP. Coached by Greg Hull who must know what he is doing, but it seems a lot to hit a 78% WAVA.
Dipping back into the thread to see some fantastic results last weekend, well done all.
I have been spending the summer away from the roads, ignoring the watch, doing fell races and a 60 mile ultra which I loved. I ignored all conventional plans and 8 weeks after the ultra I was able to get a massive marathon pb of 3.02.02 in Amsterdam last weekend. My longest run post ultra was the hardest 21 mile fell race I have ever done (the Redbull Steeple Chase) and that was 2 weeks before Amsterdam! I think I probably averaged about 60miles/week but interestingly following on from PMJ's post most long runs were done 9-10mm pace and all involved some walking on the steep hills, with a weekly 10 mile run at ~7mm. I went into Amsterdam thinking there was no way I would get a PB so ignored my watch and ran to feel, the pressure off and relaxed running really worked in my favour, I will be doing it watchless again! Oh, and no gels either, I just carried a bottle of lucozade and that was all I needed.
Cheers Poacher, I was delighted and will do more Ultra's if they get me the endurance base I seem to have aquired!
excellent stuff Sal - was it you that was turboing injured ?
running to feel, it'll never catch on !
Keir - PnD as a whole is good and doesnt need the long runs lengthening if you follow the whole plan, theres long runs Sun, Weds and Fri and some of the long runs have big chunks of MP in them. Marigold and SL have run 2:3X off that plan.
Having said that I will be following the PD 50-75 schedule again for London, just need to sort out the cramping issues I've had in my last two attempts.
DM and JD3 did you follow the full (full on) P&D taper?
TR - I was doing lots on the turbo in Jan/Feb due to a stress fracture. I swapped that for cycling outside 1/2 x weekly post VLM. I did manage to get a fairly consistent 15mile TT to work and back once a week too, my record back was 46mins, not bad for the Peaks!
Blimey Sal that fastastic. Well done!
SJ - good news on the foot; hope the improvement accelerates rapidly.
AR - generally, yes, but never quite sure if I was just over doing it. I must save up for a HRM one of these days!
Keir - I'm currently focussing on endurance and still plugging away at parkrun once a month and looking for that elusive sub 19. Next year, I'd like to have a crack at a sub 40 10k and a sub 90 HM. Hopefully by the end of next year I should have built up my weekly mileage enough to consider a mara in 2014. Very nice LSR you squeezed in there.
DM - OK, I'll let you off. Please try harder next time! Conversely, don't try too hard with those recovery runs. Hope the quads return to normal soon.
SD - take care of that shoulder.
PMJ - yes, I heard that interview. Incredible tempo sessions by the sound of it.
Sal - fantastic! Congrats on the PB in Amsterdam; that was some going. You must be over the proverbial moon.
3 mile recovery run for me this morning.
Thank you all for your kind comments about last weekend, and in some cases for your concern about my pilay habit!
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to target a strong HM PB in the spring rather than another marathon, I think that the full distance can wait until I'm confident I'll be a chunk faster- I enjoyd it, but I enjoyed the achievement more than the process.
I haven't run a single step since the marathon, and am quite glad of it, on Monday and a bit on Tuesday I had to hold onto things when I tried sitting down and I had to pull myself up stairs by the bannister. I had a sore area on my foot (a tendon perhaps) just below my ankle on the outside, and I'm hoping that a few days will let that recover- it seems to have done. Might go for a 5mile jog later today.
Planning to do base building from now until mid december, and then have a proper 12 week run up at a half- any tips on base building? High volume, low intensity, never push too hard, and listen to body? Does that sound right?
DM - enjoyd your report, sounds like a very tough marathon done very well. We ddi get similar times (although you beat me on the xx!), but they're not similar performances- my course was not at all hilly, I'm sure that next time around with a more favourable course 2.5x is going to be well on the cards for you.
AR - thoughts on P+D: To be jhonest I barely feel qualified to give much of an opion, given that it's the only marathon plan I've followed. But for what it s worth I thought it was very good. Being who I am I liked having a plan to follow, so there was no confufusion as to what to do that day, and no chance of bargining with myself saying 'well maybe I could just do 11 not the 15 I had planned', but on the other hand I think that I wasn't brave enough/sensible enough once or twice just to say 'I'm tired, a rest day/easier day would be more benfitial.' I think that if you can straddle that line between religiously folowwing the plan and listening to your body then that's great. It also made me a bit reluctant to do a flat out HM, which I'm sure would have been of benefit, but because the plan doesn't say so...
If you could deigest the princeiples of the plan and follow it as closely as your life allows, but chosing sensible ooptions aroung HMs, deadlines, illness, family then I think thats the best. I thikn that with this, as with many things foloowing it too closely can be too much of a bad thing. Next time I do a marathon I'll follow the plan again, but hopefully I can heed my own advice.
Moof - I did follow the taper for the first two weeks, and they were my favorite two we4eks, I felt strong, fast and my HR was falling but my speed was getting faster. On the week of the marathon I had a hint of a cold taht I wanted to get rid of so sat out two of the days. Looking through my training for the mrathon some of the sessions that I was most plesaed with came at the end of heavy weeks so I don't know if the taper was too much. I think Id have got cabin fever sitting around too much in the run up to the mrathon.
(sorry spelling and grammer have gone towards the end- got to be somewhere at 9)
Fantastic running in Amsterdam Sal. That is a great result and just shows what running consistently can do. Are you able to recall what times you did for each split or any way of finding out (were there pace mats). I am interested to see how running to feel worked out pace wise for you over the whole event.
JD3 – For base building, you’ve pretty much said it there. Long, regular and slow. This helps to explain why. Also use the time do develop core / stretching etc.
PMJ – I am not planning to do any extra LSRs. I think I have pretty good endurance as it is and although I have run 7 – 8 20+milers before, I think more mid-week MLRs would be a better iuse of my time. That said, I do have an over distance run planned for feb.
To answer your earlier point TR regarding time restrictions as a family man, I think maybe I should have been a bit clearer when I happened to mention to my wife that I was considering going in for the Ballbuster in November!
So from the post marathon reports this past week, I have discovered the following:
Sal's successful method is the essence of Arthur Lydiard - get the slow miles in and forget about speed till later. It's a proven strategy.
Incidentally must say something nice about Garmin - I sent the dead 305 back for the 50 quid replacement service but they had run out, so came up with a brand new 310XT wirh HRM which is over 200 smackers even on Amazon. Nice.
Minni good luck on Sunday!
I have the splits here Keir, the 23 min first 5k is due to twice being brought to a standstill in the first couple of miles.
5 km 23:30 (23:30), 10 km 44:25 (20:55), 15 km 1:05:13 (20:48), 20 km 1:26:23 (21:10), 21,1 km 1:31:14, 25 km 1:47:47 (21:24), 30 km 2:09:22 (21:35), 35 km 2:31:13 (21:51), 40 km 2:52:43 (21:30), Net time 3:02:02, Gros time 3:04:01, Speed 13,908 Km/Hour
Very consistent splits there Sal. Impressive to see despite running purely on feel that the difference between the slowest and fastest 5k was only 1 minute.
Obviously standing still is not ideal, but do you think the slower start helped, or did it make you run the a bit faster to try to make the time back?
It didn't help at all as it was a complete stop for a good 30 or so secs! I did run a bit faster once we got going only to stop again at the entrance to a park so then decided it was pointless putting a spurt on, instead get back to relaxed running. Fortunately, after that first 1-1.5 miles there was little congestion. One of the coaches to the elite guy who won said the wind cost him 40-50secs. That was definately more noticable in the second half but it was generally more of a cross wind than a head wind. I'm not sure how much it slowed me or how much was the legs starting to fatigue.
Nice Garmin result Poacher
Good Luck Minni!!
Hows the foot looking for the weekend SJ. Good luck to you and everyone else racing this weekend.
First 3 miles run yesterday for the week, and a few miles of cross training on the rower. Injuries starting to heal, so hope to start on general core strength work and some easy running next week. I'm quite excited about not running a marathon this weekend.
Well run, Sal - beautifully paced. And very jealous of your shiny new pb. Hopefully you, Speedy and I can form a sub 3 ladies' train in April
Foot is improving AR thanks, not 100% and no idea whether it will last for the full race. Also not sure how 4 whole weeks off with not much cross training is going to affect performance so combined with a windy and lumpy course I've no idea how to tackle pacing. I might use the recently vaunted "run to feel" approach.
Goals: 1. Get round 2. Get round without injury 3. Respectable time
Had fish and chips for tea last night and a pie at lunch - I don't think that counts as carb loading.
Nice result with the watch Poacher. I emailed a bike light company for details of where to buy a spare handle bar mount bracket last week and they sent me a free one. Not quite the same as a watch upgrade but still a pleasant surprise. Moon x500 btw, great front light.
I seem to have developed a pain down the outside of my left thigh, so popped into sweatshop today to buy a foam roller. 40 and 60 quid! No chance I'm paying that. Can anyone recommend a decent one from t'internet.