RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • DD, enjoy the party ... crikey 16  7 year-olds sounds like a tough prospect. Hope they only demolish cake and not the house!

    kiwi: at least you stuck it out - next time will be better.

    Ant: braving the elements - bet you feel great now its done.

    Minni: that's a typical runners dilemma, isn't it. Deep down you really want to do the race but at the same time you can't let your friends down. I would go with DDs advice - just live a little. Where's the fun in all this when you can't have a night on the tiles even once...

    aca: welcome, o speedy one image

    AA: my brain tends to get muddled up on long hard runs and in races when even simple additions are no longer possible.

    Feeling lots better, thanks for asking. I am going to be sensible though and won't run for another 2 days. Winter is back with a vengeance and icy winds and a chest infection are not a good combination. Was planning on testing the legs/lungs on Friday to assess what to do about Sunday's half.

  • DD - managed 34 lengths- all front crawl - could have gone on but pool got crouded and I'm trying to master turning my head each way rather than just to the left each time - any tips?? Fantastic amount of lengths well done you! Have you done or are you training for an Iron Man?

    Minnni - agree - go out with the girls and don't feel guilty. You are putting in some excellent training.

    Chick - glad you're feeling better. Where about in the country are you getting battered again??

  • AA - I moved to Germany and we've been having a total b*tch of a winter. It started in November with a bit of a breather in mid-Jan which was ok but I am totally fed up with it now.

    Sorry can't help with the swimming - I swim like a lump of lead image
  • Oops, sorry, think I posted this in the wrong thread.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Good swimming effort AA. 

    Germany sounds grimmer than the North of England!

    KMJ welcome aboard!  This Will be my 8th marathon too.  I'm running about 50 mpw at the moment, although this is a recovery week and only need to do 43 image.  What does your weekly plan look like.

    Right, stop distracting me... I've knocked off early to get this 8m run in and must go NOW. 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    was it something I said... image
  • Thanks Minni. Cool, I'm similar to you then, doing around 55 miles per week at the moment (though this week will be a bit more because I stupidly entered two races this weekend). Think Monday will be a much needed rest day!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Are you following the P & D?  What distance are the two races?

  • Sorry to sound stupid but what's P&D? I tend to do my own training plans, don't really follow any, though I've compared my training with the Runner's World plan and my long runs are similar (in distance and frequency) to that. I usually do one speed session, one long run, one medium run, one tempo run or race per week and the rest is made up of hilly 5-8 mile runs. One race is the National cross country champs (about 5 miles - will be near the back of the field) and the other is an 8 mile fell race.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I am following the P&D Advanced Marathoning schedule which goes up to 55 miles per week but unfortunately there's no link online for me to share it with you.  Your plan sounds similar anyway and it sounds like you're well on your way.  What have you changed this time around to try to knock those minutes off your pb?  For me, its more faster running (generally), with stints of half marathon pace, marathon pace during runs, and the introduction of the dreaded speed session.    Fell race image .... sounds like you've got a fun filled weekend ahead.  Do you have a GFA entry into London? 

  • Ah right, glad it's similar image I have done pretty much the same as you - I've started doing regular speed sessions (and actually making an effort during them, whereas before I was a bit lazy), have upped the mileage and have generally been doing my training runs and races faster than before and have been including more hills than I used to. Yeah, I always find fell races hard! Think I'll take it easy though. I could have got a GFA entry, but I already had a deferred ballot place from the year before so I'm using that (thought it would be easier than worrying about whether my GFA would get there on time with the post).

     Right I'd better stop procrastinating for a bit and practice my driving theory. Got my theory test in the morning, eep.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Good luck with the theory test!  Back in my day the theory test was simply a couple of questions at the end of the driving test!  I'd hate to do it now.  Keep us posted!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Yeah!  That's another 8 in the bank.  Off road so no great pace - 9.34 and it felt hard, I'm so tired this week, but of course feel full of life now its done!

    DD Good luck with the party tomorrow.  My tip would be to have a large glass of wine and a take a deep breath as it starts....

    I have just searched the RAK half marathon and I see we can watch the finish live (what time will that be here..?) it all looks very posh! 

  • About to head out for 8 miles GA.

    Schedule says 5 miles for tomorrow, to fit it in i'd have to get out of bed ultra early, as I'm then heading away for an overnight retreat with my year 8s. Already feeling tired + considering ditching the 5, but will be too late Friday night to fit it in. Thinking listen to the body as it's tired but then thinking i can't fit the 5 in elsewhere this week.... Any thoughts?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Kiwi - the 5 tomorrow is a recovery so I would just miss it.  I don't think it will make any difference on marathon day.   The schedule doesn't say tired this week and yet that's what we're all feeling!

    Edit to add:

    I've just realised I will also miss the 5 tomorrow image
  • Funnily enough I'm due to do 5 miles tomorrow too. I will be up early to do it, it will hopefully get my brain in gear ready for the theory test. I got up at 4:30am this morning for my long run, will probably do the same tomorrow as my theory is at 9am and have to get the train there. Thanks for the good luck Minni!
  • Yes, best wishes KMJ + wow that you get up at 4:30am to go running!! 5am runs leave me struggling on my feet all day + easily grumpy with the kids, guess i just don't get to bed early enough.

    A comfortable 8 miles at 9.08 tonight, have decided to can tmrw's 5 miles, still on target for 41 miles this week.

    Off to Kintbury for a retreat tmrw, 2 days of reflection + relaxing, what a great way to end a busy half term image
  • I'm always grumpy with the kids. Their fault not mine lol.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Enjoy your relaxation Kiwi.  Sounds lovely.

    lol @ Spoons!

    4.30am!  That is dedication KMJ.  I thought I did good to get out at 6. 

  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭
    AA - great work getting in the pool! I'm not sure what your swimming background is, but a good general rule is that until you can do 1km in 19mins your focus in training should be on technique rather than distance.
    Now exactly what that means working on for you I dont know, but thanks to the tri boom, and the fact that most people dont come to it from a swimming background, there are a lot of good resources out there to help. The 'total immersion' method seems to be the generally accepted bible for swimming technique - you'll find lots of books on this. There are also lots of coaches who offer intensive days/weekends of coaching, with video analysis etc - it may be worth treating yourself to one of these to kick start you, and to make sure you focus on the right stuff in your subsequent training. Bear in mind though, cos this is tri, nothing comes as cheap as running...
    Another option is to see if theres a masters swim club near you or a tri club that does swim sessions - similar to running clubs you'll find a range of abilities, and people with similar goals to yourself.
    Also, bear in mind that the swim is the shortest part of the tri, and at a minimum you just need to get through it comfortably, so you can burn your way through the field with your marathon endurance in the bike and run!
  • kfc - thanks. I spent my Summers as a kid in a open air pool and ended up a strong swimmer - just haven't done much for 20 years but I'm lucky enought to have an indoor pool in our village. I'm not too worried about the swim - more swimming in a lake!! But the lake opens in April down the road and its the tri-lake so I'm lucky and will have to just bite the bullet and get down there! Just gotta work on technique with my front crawl. Is it ok to turn your head the same way in front crawl all the time? As I can do that without a problem.

    4/5 miles slow for me this morning is the plan.

    Feel like I've got a bit of Planter Facialitis coming on....ouch! image

  • Morning

    KMJ: Like your style, I also am no fan of set schedules to generic for me and as you so rightly say include the correct elements of tempo / speed/ recovery / LSD and they look after themselves. I also often run at stupid o'clock a) to be at the heat c) only time available

    Minni: Rak is plush because there is quite big money at stake, there will be 20 very thin Kenyans / Ethiopians at the front quite a few of whom will go sub 60 mins. There is also quite a lot of money fro UAE residents this has lead to cheating in the relay, disputes about whether a runner is on a residence visa or a visit visa etc etc, the authorities have now solved this problem by flying in a whole load of Ethiopians, giving them a new religion, name and most importantly passport so viola the UAE win all events, so simple. You see money can buy you success. Pretty sure you don't want to watch live it starts 0300 UK time!

    AA: Try breathing everything 3rd stroke to get used to breathing each side. Its fine to breath every second stroke on the same side as well, just watch the pro tri-athletes they all do this. I have taught myself to breath on both sides as in OW sea swimming you sometimes have to contend with waves coming from one direction and breaking in your face. I swim with a masters club makes it a bit more fun. I hadn't swum more than 50 metres at a stretch in 30 years until last summer, initially 1.5K took me 40+ mins now I'm down around the 31 minute mark, it comes slowly but it comes.

    Kfc: Your right there is nothing cheap about tri, its good fun though and as you say i just try to get through the swim midpack and pull them all back on the bike and run, in fact I rarely get overtaken on the bike or the run.

    Have a great day out there, sounds as if most of you are either resting or on 5 easy today, I have had a hour in the pool doing intervals and drills, saving my legs for tomorrow.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭ image
  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭

    AA - I too swam a lot when younger, and now find that before a tri as long as I do a couple of sessions to get the swimming muscles working again (the first session I always find it a struggle to do more than 2 lengths without getting tired) I'll be in the middle of the pack - sounds like you'll be fine. 

    Lots of people advise to breathe both sides, and its useful to do so, but I'm way more comfortable breathing every 4 to my right, so thats the way I race.  A sueful thing to get used to is sighting - taking a look forward before you breathe.  You'll need to do this every now and again to check you are on the right course in the opwn water.

    ps.  9 miles before work - hoping to manage another 10 after!

  • Minni - body sounds like its saying rest required??

    DD - good luck tomorrow

    kfc - enjoy your 2nd run later!

    5 miles easy done and dusted now massaging til 730pm image

  • Thanks DD/minni/kfc for the advice,

    I will resist the urge to run faster on my long runs and do as you suggest and try to do just the last half at 8mm pace.

    At the moment each week I currently do one speed session day (usually 4-5 * 1 mile repeats at 7mm), one longer threshold run 8-10m @ 7:20ish, then a recovery run and my long run at the weekend, does this seem enough for 3:30 to be realistic? apologies for the question bombardment!

    I've ordered the advanced marathoning wife will be ecstatic as I already bore the cr@p out of her detailing my split times after pretty much each run!


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    ha ha aca, its the same in my house.  I can go one better...  have the most fantastic spreadsheet that links into the P&D schedule.  I can email it to you if you like...!   SteveC on the 3.15 thread made it and its nothing short of brilliant.  Then, not only can you read the book, you can also sit for hours on end staring at the computer screen reporting everything back to your OH, who, unknown to you, left the room hours ago!
  • Hey Dubai Dave - I'm glad we think alike. image 

    My run this morning must have worked with getting my brain in gear - I passed my theory test, managed to get full marks on the multiple choice part too. Yay.

    P.S. I get up early to run but I do go to bed around 8pm, he he.

  • Minni - can you email me the spreadsheet?

    I am the stats king and any more info can only aid me in being the most boring man in the world.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Yes Mr Spoons.  Its on my computer at home so I'll do it later.

    KMJ  well done on passing the theory! 

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