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wannabe ultra runner?
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Debra - I hope you copied and pasted that lot !
So, I'm after some advice. Is there a recommendation about how many back to back medium/long runs to do as part of a training plan ? I did my first last weekend and plan to do 3 more, every 2 weeks, until I need to start tapering.
This is the RFP Relentless Forward Progress 50m plan. You can see how often they have them in here.
Every 2 weeks sounds high is that with 1 week gap between them, or two full weekends between them.
Actually looking at the ultraladies plans they most weeks running back to backs
so I guess it's whatever your body can cope with without breaking down.
carterusm: No, those are just what I could list easily with a few minutes to think!
Ultraladies (http://www.trailrunevents.com/ul/schedule-50m.asp) has a drop-down week every third week - so two weeks with long back-to-back runs then an easier one (can't get the table to copy-and-paste properly, but I've provided the link).
I more-or-less followed that schedule for my first 50-miler.
Thanks both. I think the key thing for me is to listen to my body and make sure I don't overdo it or my dodgy knee will make an appearance again. I've just had 2 'big' weeks, for me, and right now I feel pretty good but am resisting the temptation to go long this weekend. So, I think 2 big weeks followed by an easy week seems to be the way forward and then a 3 week taper
I find 2 big weeks, then an easy week works well for me as well. It keeps you mentally fresh as well as giving your body a chance to recover.
I don't do many back to backs, although I do generally end up doing about 6 miles orienteering the day after a long run just because orienteering events are normally on a Sunday! These are normally at a fairly high effort level so probably a similar impact. The only time I do "proper" back to backs is if I am recceing, when I will do 2 or 3 consecutive long days on the course, but at a very relaxed pace and I find these have massive training benefit in every regard.
A lot of the top runners seem to have moved away from back to backs and instead will do something like a shortish tempo the day before their long run.
Qualified for Comrades yesterday with 3:49 at Dymchurch Marathon, which gets me into pen D. My race report is at https://runningape.wordpress.com/
Now the real training begins - this week I'll take it easy, then my mileage needs to increase from c. 50 miles a week to about 70/week (not all in one go!).
Congratulations Debra. Great to hear you are back on top form.
A reminder to those looking at run / walk, slow n steady really does get there if you can keep going...
https://ultrathon.wordpress.com/ultrarunning-runwalk-calculator-2/
Interesting to see the paces you need to achieve X distance in y time.
LNandB: thanks!
Interesting calculator but it only has an option for minute(s) walking. I made a spread sheet myself but I never use it anymore
Good luck everyone
While training for longer distances, take a look at Maffetone and training on heart rate too. I did that for the last 18 months and with great results.
That's what i'm trying to do now RunningMax. Been trying to stick with it since late in October... Managed my most miles in 15 months last month... Just hoping to get another consistent couple of months in then will use April as a 4 week speed block, to try and get a bit of speed as well, and then back to MAF until end of August.
Hiya! That sounds good but.... I am now even capable of doing interval training within MAF. Do you run continuously on MAF? I always ran with RWR and found that my HR as too high. I started running continously again with the low heart rate. Later I started varying. RWR on low heart rate would make it possible to run faster etc. So I varied with distances ec but kept my heart rate low. I would never add a 4 week speed block since you would only ruin your aerobic endurance build up. Don't worry, I now know that I am really faster without having done speedwork (let alone 4 weeks). Give it time and don't be afraid you loose speed. You won't On the contrary. It is just in your head
Did 33 miles yesterday. Slow and easy. Did not want to stop at all. Will go out again today. That is what is running al about
Be good for your body 
Due to my change of diet to low carb high fat I have also been doing some zone 2 training, based on perceived effort rather than using an actual heart rate monitor. Walking in deep mud, up steep hills though has forced me out of zone 2 though and it's not been possible to go any slower and lower my heart rate ! After a few weeks of low energy levels I'm now starting to feel the benefits of it though. My long run last weekend was fasted and I didn't need to take on any fuel until mile 15. I managed 58 miles last week and that's pretty good for me.
BT - only 6 weeks to HM55, how is your training going ?
@ carterusm: ofcourse a steep hill or mud makes a difference you can allow some more heart beats. But it WILL get better but think in a year training minimal and now weeks or months. I did not eat anything during my 33 miles yesterday. I am an efficient fatburner now too with the proper training and food guidelines
caretusm: Well..... not brilliant my MCL is still screwed, My Doctor has written to my local hospital who has a knee team, and asked them if they will do an MRI of my knee. so fingers crossed i'm getting somewhere.
I'm doing as much MAF training as my knee will allow it's low mileage for most ultra runners, but for me it's pretty good. Managed 50km each week this year, which for me is good. Last two weekends in Feb i'm going to do long back to back walks and runs.
Then just wing it and see what happens on the day. Half an hour ahead of the cut off at the end of the day would do me fine
RunningMax: Cheers for the advice. I think i'll go with that, basically i've got London Marathon and Milton Keynes marathon the week after, which I guess are my two short / fast events for the year
I was kidding myself about trying to put in a slightly respectable performance for at least one of the two
but i think you are right and i'll just stick with MAF and maybe treat myself to going over / slightly harder just for these events but not in training for them.
Sorry to hear that your knee is still causing you problems booktrunk. It sounds as though you have managed some good training for January though - hope you manage to keep that going.
I did one of the Rab Mini Mountain Marathon events yesterday and had a great time. 4 hours to find as many controls as possible, orienteering around the Peak District. A quiet week this week, followed by 2 hard weeks and then I shall be into tapering for Hardmoors 55...
I don't feel I am getting my diet quite right at the moment. I am consistently training at quite high mileage (for me, I realise not for many!) and while I am getting the fuelling right for my runs, I don't think I am getting it quite right the rest of the time as I am having patches of running out of energy and having afternoon slumps when I start craving sugary things... I have to be quite strict with myself about how much I eat as sadly I am one of those well adapted long distance runners who still puts weight on easily despite lots of running! Any suggestions for good things to eat for lunch/foods that help with energy and feeling full without being likely to lead to weight gain? I realise there is no simple answer here, but any tips or suggestions would be much appreciated.
RunningMax - I managed a 21 mile run at the weekend that had 2,600ft of elevation; it's the Grindleford Gallop route but I'm not running it this year as it's a week before HM55. I was fasted and didn't take on board any food at all during the run. On the final climb, I was also able to run some of the less steep sections, which are still steep, so that was quite pleasing. The final couple of miles were also run at a high effort, so I think my fat adapting is improving each week.
BT - hopefully your knee will keep improving so you can have a good run at HM55.
LNandB - I changed my diet to low carb high fat at the beginning of the year and started to do fasted runs. I've lost 10lbs so far and this would have been more if I didn't fall off the wagon a couple of times and start eating every bit of sugar in the house. The meals I eat these days are both more varied and filling than my previous diet, so much so that I will have my evening meal no later than 19:00 and then wont eat again until about 13:00 the next day after I have been for a run. LCHF is a long process to adapt to but it has certainly helped me with my weight, something I have struggled with for years despite running quite a bit. One thing I'm not sure about yet though is how I will fuel before and during HM55. So that's 3 of us from this thread in that race then !
My second consecutive week of 58 miles which is as much as I've ever run in a week. Saturday's long ron was very enjoyable despite the crap weather and tricky underfoot conditions. I averaged just under 12:00 min miles which is pretty good for me, my target for HM55 is to get under 12:00 hours which is about a 13:00 min mile pace. I also have found that on my diet I am recovering from my long runs quicker than previously. I felt that good that I went out yesterday and did a couple of miles with Mrs C before doing another 9 hilly miles on my own in gale force winds and torrential rain. This week is a cut back week before I have 2 more big weeks of training before I start to taper for HM55
That's some good running carterusm and will hopefully stand you in good stead for HM55.
Although I don't want to go down the LCHF route with my diet, I do think that I need to get some more protein and good fats into my diet and less simple carbohydrate. I'm starting to play around a bit with some different things for lunch and so far that seems to be helping.
I'm really looking forward to HM55 now. No time target for me - I'm using it for Lakeland 100 training so am hoping to run comfortably and finish with something in reserve. Still haven't quite got my head round the idea of using a 55 mile ultra as training though!
i know we shouldn't compare ourselves to others but I do and feel very underwhelmed with my efforts. *gulp*
but last year was aweful and I've already run 275km this year as opposed to 270km in the first three months of last year
I've been over 50km each week, which is really good for me getting that many consistent weeks in, hoping to do mid 50s again this week, to make it six in a row, and then do two weeks with 65-70km and then another 50+ then I think two weeks where I can do a bit less before HM55.
LNandB - What is it about LCHF that is putting you off ? A great place to be where you are using a 55 mile race as a training run !
BT - Absolutely no need to compare your training against anyone else's, we all know it's a personal thing and there will be completing HM55 who have done 25 miles per week training and some who have done 80. As long as you get the job done it doesn't matter.
I'm having an easy week this week and have only ran once so far. It was hill repeats (on the roads
) one lunchtime where I did 10 x 55 metres with an average incline of about 5%. The legs certainly felt it as I did all 7 miles with a mid-foot strike, something I've been dabbling with recently. No ill effects so far and the plan is to switch between heel and mid-foot striking until I have fully adapted.
I've added the HM55 route to my watch and have spent plenty of time pouring over the Harvey's map and google maps, what could possibly go wrong !
........ Looking at the course..... Darn knew there was something I should do
no, thst would probably just scare me.
Love my fenix3 a nice chap had posted the GPX On the hardmoors forum, just clicked on the course in Garmin connect and downloaded it to my watch via wifi
The course is muddy, hilly and muddy with some hills and mud....
Oh well... That's my whole year planned out. Nice little 108m jaunt in January booked. So now I know I cannot back off anytime this year now.
Spine Challenger ?
Next year is a bad weather year as well.....
Nahh dreaming about -3 no wind a nice even dusting of snow...
aww hell who am I kidding
After a cutback week I have now started my last 2 big weeks of training before tapering for HM55. The legs are starting to feel really good now and my change to a low carb high fat diet is paying dividends; in addition to losing a stone this year I've now managed a 21 mile fasted run and it felt pretty good. I'm almost down to my target weight for this race which should hopefully help as well. I've got a couple of little niggles at the moment but hopefully that's all they are. I've been transitioning to a midfoot strike and I've been getting a bit of discomfort just to the side of my knee but not quite to the outside where I have had ITB issues in the past. My thoughts are now turning to the logistics including trying to make sure I can fit all the mandatory kit into my race vest. Hotel booked as is the bus to the start line. I just need to get myself to the start line injury free