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As I am quite proud of my session yesterday I am happy to repost it with alternative wording.
I did my 16 with 12 at MP yesterday - except that I ran them at an average of 6:45mm which is 7 secs per mile faster than my MP (although that calculation itself is a little bit out of date based on other race times).
I also successfully consumed an Energy Gel and an Iso Gel at 5 and 10 miles and whilst I felt a bit like I could have stopped behind a hedge a few miles after each one that feeling passed so I'm counting that as a success - it is also quite strange running with a taste in your mouth, apple then orange in this case.
I also had a near Garmin disaster at the start of the run. I always put my garmin on top of the car in the drive so it has found the satellite while I lace up my trainers but yesterday I had a bit of a chat too and said bye to one of my daughters who went out to walk the dog.
When I went outside I had a bit of a shock horror moment when I realised she had driven off with the dog in the car with my garmin watch still on top of the car. So I jogged the route to the park searching along the side of the road for where my garmin might have fallen off or been crushed on the road by another car but there was no sign of it. Anyway after jogging the 0.8 miles to the car there it was still sitting on top of the car - I was amazed (and pleased!).
Skinny, would you like us all to repost the 'well done's too? I am happy to oblige. Well done. How did MP feel? I took a gel with me for my 16 with 12 but in the event I didn't dare try to get it into my mouth.
Some top notch PB action over the weekend. Marvellous effort from Muddy (turn up and PB) Funster as usual, but despite his hilly 5m course, Madbee and Charlie take the honours for the massive chunks they took off their 10 mile / 5k bests respectively. Sounds like a very good result for Lit too given, like me, your lack of fondness for XC...though I think I may have turned a corner on that one on Saturday, had a real blast at the Nationals.
Monumental MP missions from McF, Marrows and the alliteratively disappointing Skinny.
Very decent outings from Lou and Tommy too - glad you both appear to be firmly on the mend, though it's a shame about Dat London, Tom.
Is the mileage increase with anything in particular in mind or just to build the base, Mr V?
Tommy - Rushcliffe 10k next Sunday? (Would need a pleading e-mail again though.) Lincoln 10k on 22nd?
So - the Nationals. What an eye opener. I now realise that all previous XC races have been little more than a pale imitation of the real thing. A large proportion of the course was shin deep mud and slop with not yards, but probably miles of it resembling the very boggy section that Lit will remember (and I moaned about) at Wollaton Park for the equivalent race last year - it just went on and on and on...! Once I got my head round it though, I got stuck in and found that I was really enjoying it.
The plan had been to take it relatively comfortably on Lap 1, and pick it up on Lap 2 if I fancied it. First part of that was not optional, as having ascended most of the opening hill at a fairly decent clip (not as bad as everyone makes out) we ground to a halt and spent most of the rest of the first mile walking due to the sheer volume of numbers, brought to a complete standstill on at least 3 more occasions. In fact, it wasn't until the end of Mile 2 that it felt like we were finally able to get a sustained, proper stride in. I also got spiked on the first descent, ripping a 3 inch hole in my spikes and a half inch hole in my foot - gratuitous gory picture below in keeping with current thread trends.
Was then able to make some pretty decent progress for the best part of a couple of miles clearing a local rival and a club mate, these miles including some harder paths which were uncomfortable on the feet in 12mm spikes, but at least allowed for something that actually resembled running. However, a return to the hilly mud and slop of the narrow sections of the course again saw us down to a walk due to the numbers still trying to cram through, many of whom were really struggling by now, and plenty more giving up and dropping out.
Annoyed by the hold up, but feeling strong from a bit of a breather and now back into some of the better (less bad) sections of the course, I then picked some lines round the outside, inside or wherever I could find a gap and began making up places hand over fist. Even as we hit some boggy sections again, with a curse I continued to plough on, rapidly catching and passing another couple of local rivals who have had the better of me throughout the North Mids series including Lit's ex-club mate, Tim. I was also remembering the chat on the thread after the Mids XC Champs, so avoided 'mincing' round the edge of the worst of the boggy parts and took the shortest line through - great advice as this also helped me make up plenty of places.
Working hard now, but with the adrenaline flowing I was looking forward to a fast downhill finish where I could open the legs up even more. We crested the final ascent, and I kicked as we came down the other side...sinking literally inches into thick, oozing mud - oh FFS! So much for the final kick...perhaps fittingly it was to be a slog to the end.
I notice Charlie Hulson's winning time this year was 3:16 down on Keith Gerrard's here back in 2012, which at nearly 30 seconds per mile probably says more about the conditions than I ever could. Despite all that, and the fact that I'm still more than a bit sh*t at XC, this was a fantastic experience and day out at a superb venue with stunning views across London. I'd rate it up there in my top handful of most enjoyable races (track included) and would urge everyone to give it a bash if they get chance.
Try to avoid one of these though...bit sore!
Thanks but no. It felt like I would not need to stop or slow down unless I got injured or fatigue set in which is exactly the opposite of how I feel on the LT runs.
Funnily enough it was the first gel I had ever taken so although I was supposed to be having it at 5 miles I ran along with it in my hand for about half a mile trying to pluck up the courage.
The first time I took a gel, a very sensible person suggested taking it at home before setting off on a short run.
Adrian Royle appears to have done his usual excellent job of capturing the day in pictures. Senior Men's photos on the last few pages, though not sure even these really do justice to conditions with some of the more secluded, less accessible spots being the worst: -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/adiroyle/sets/72157650953572722
None of me in his set I don't think, but did manage to randomly sneak into a couple of pictures taken by someone snapping London Heathside's runners:
I'm ignoring you, Bob, because I thought we'd agreed we didn't post foot pictures on this thread.
Bob - sounds like you had a blast. Nasty spike injury, though. Make sure you get it properly clean.
Lit - sorry to disappoint.
Skinny - It baffles me why some people are so afraid of gels. It's just a mouthful of fruity goo.
DT - the club xc is just a bit of fun. More of a social than competitive event.
Mace - hope I don't let you down.
Lou - it is in case they shit themselves.
Bob, Lit is right and it was only 5 days ago
Foolishly we didn't define 'foot' so I think Bob gets away with it.
Sounds like a goob day out, Bob.
Skinny- Thats remarkably lucky re your watch.. Good session. I remember the first time I took a gel. It was at around the 8 mile mark of the Bristol half marathon. I thought it looked quite tasty and everyone else was tucking in. When i eventually ripped it open with my teeth and took a big mouthful I realised i had made a huge mistake as it made me gag.
I don't worry about that anymore.
I didn't agree to anything...having had to witness others' grizzly photos you can damn well suffer mine!
Lou - Yes, got the good lady on the job cleaning it up yesterday as she was away on Saturday night. She was far more ruthless at it than I was, or could ever have been, myself!
Bob - you run remarkably well considering you only have half toes!
Good effort, Bob. Sounds like a decent day out, shame I couldn't make it.
I can't make Rushcliffe 10k this year, Lincoln is a possibility. More likely is one in Derby a bit later in the year.
One of the boys from Saturday has just mailed us all round this link. The proof reading falls short in parts, but well worth a read even so.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/11429049/The-greatest-running-race-you-have-never-heard-of.html
Skinny - The toes were curled to ensure I got the spike mark's 'best angle'. Would you like another with the toes fully extended? I know Lit would.
Awesome xcing Bob. A nice foot. I actually thought it was your chin and lips at first, like you have a very recessed jaw and... well, are very weird looking. Makes sense now. Body pics are always very unsettling if you can't work them out straight away.
Pete and Tommy I might not beat anyone in my 10k. I might crash and burn, or have a cyclone to content with. Or get spiked. Erm, by some wearing "road spikes". I also think lots of PBs on the chart are soft, and any overtaking could be swiftly redressed.
As 5.6 for me this AM at 5.37.
Muddy - Can't keep up says the man who's just posted a sub 79 half
Yeah I would have been tempted by that race but its same date as GNR.
Tommy - Shame about London but could have been a lot worse. At least you can keep doing a decent amount of training which is the main thing. Yeah Gibside is super hilly. I've avoided doing the parkrun there so far despite it being close to me for that very reason!
Skinny - Its the only gold cell I'm confident of keeping hold of! Just don't let any new posters onto the table
Lit - Indeed, as the wava scores prove! I blame it on having crappy running genes. Good effort on your unfavoured cross country.
Marrows - I must sounds like an old man when I post. I'm sure someone once said they thought I was about 60 on the middle ground thread! (and no I didnt have a picture up then!)
Bob - I'm going to do Sunderland half in a couple of months so thought I'd better bag some miles. Buts its mainly just that I felt I didn't do enough miles last year. Good report and well run. Definitely an experience from the sounds of it. My gf loves cross country and even she said she might give it a miss next year.
Mr V - Just going by the sessions you are posting is all ...
Lit - The Falkirk parkrun is in Callendar Park - it was very pleasant there last autumn and they handed out chocolates afterwards.
Skinny - Ta for the table update. They had the vets categories as 40-49/50-59 etc. so I don't believe I won anything. I will also excise all mention of course, conditions and internal suffering from future reports. What the hell will be left I don't know
Mace - Maybe you missed the bit where I mentioned the everlasting downhill that has my quads aching today ?
to you too. I reckon I dwell on the uphills because I'm a lanky old git and it is possibly harder for me to get up them. Good luck in the 20 miler.
Bob - That sounds like sheer madness but glad you enjoyed it. Hope the gruesome spike wound plays nice.
Lou - I had that race already on NYE.
Charlie - 5 @ 5:37 - nice pace ! That is what you mean isn't it ? The other option that you got up that early and started running seems a bit far fetched
4m of recovery treadmilling for me earlier and a breezy 5m of mixed paces tonight as I tried to loosen up my left hand side glutes which were all tensed up after yesterdays efforts.
Haha - its not what you mention its the fact it always ends in a PB!
Your reports go something like
Pre Race - Conditions like an ice rink/blowing a gale in our faces; health been very dodgy and really don't feel up for it
During Race - Uphill, uphill, feels a long, long way, just not feeling it today
End of Race - Somehow managed a PB
7 miles 'recovery' with 6*100m strides for 'speed' this morning in driving sleet - nice.
My calves were still feeling Sunday so split it into 5 miles recovery at 9min + pace and then did the strides in the next mile and a half - slowest I've run on my own for a long time but my body was happy that the pace was fast enough.
You forgot 'not sure of official time because I forgot to stop my watch but might have somehow just scraped a PB', Skinny.
I let the 21mph westerly blow me 10 miles into work this morning.
To clarify, in case silence was taken as assent: I never agreed not to post foot pictures.
Bob, I hope that's not too sore. Funny that my first introduction to your 'good lady' is her violently scraping mud from inside your foot.
Easy double yesterday with some strides, and bumtweak evaporated. Phew. Got to do intervals later.
Then there's - couldn't really be bothered so I just jogged the first half - PB.
He's going to smash the shit out of us if we ever have a smackdown
10 + 10 yesterday
6 lunchtime + 14 this evening with a few clubmates which will hopefully keep the pace down.
That will be 89 in 6 days and i think i will have earned a very mini taper for Sunday ... now, what was V saying about being careful
We've had a smackdown already, mace.
As have Tommy and I. I think a no show counts as a loss.
Mace - You are a mileage monster. Love the way you are banging out 85-90 mile weeks and still having to hold yourself back from doing more!
Muddy - I think my sessions look quick because I'm doing them with a fast group who pull me along. If I did them on my own they would be slower I think.
Club session tonight is 50 minutes at MP followed by 10 minutes at 10k. Hope the group stick to the suggested pace or it could be a tough one. Very windy today as well so not particularly looking forward to it!
Sorry to the non marathoners - I am looking for some advice.
1) I was ill and did no running for 5 days a couple of weeks ago (Sunday to Thursday).
As the Sunday was a 20 mile run when I started again I redid the last 3 days of that week and then continued with the schedule so that last week I did 48 miles incl the 16 with 12 at MP. P&D then has a recovery week but the way I have changed the schedule I have already had the recovery week when I was ill so this week I am straight into the 7 at LT session (which I'm already only planning to try 6) and a 20 miler on Sunday plus a 12 miler and some sundry runs.
So the plan has 7 at LT tomorrow and the 12 miler on Friday - better to swap and push the LT closer to the 20 or do best I can tomorrow and maximise the gap between the LT and the 20?
I could really do with the 20 being a better experience than the last one.
2) A week on Saturday is the first of 3 scheduled tune up races. All are scheduled with a total of 9 - 13 miles including the warm up and cool down. I plan to run the final one as a parkrun but the other two I don't plan on doing.
So do I just run 9 - 13 miles on Saturday and then the Long Run on the Sunday or does the Saturday effort have to be slightly harder for me to have tired legs for the Sunday long run?
Or would I be better just doing an 8 on one of the Saturdays and increasing one of the 17 milers to a 20 to add that little extra endurance which is my main worry about the training plan and last year's inactivity? The plan only has three 20 milers which sounds light.
As always I guess its about balancing injury risk but the schedule thinks I can race a 10k on Saturday and run 17 miles on Sunday so maybe a normal run and a 20 miler would not be unreasonable?
I am planning on 'racing' a 12 miler on the 18 with 14 at MP day but due to random distance no point in going flat out. Furthest I've raced since October 2013 is 10 miles so quite a big jump to a marathon so felt I needed one longer race outing.
1) move the LT run; P&D would not schedule an LT run two days after 12 miles @ MP.
2) just do a normal run. No point getting hung up on 'tune-up' races if there is nothing happening that you want to race.
Thanks!
re 2) what about increasing one of the Long Runs so I've done four 20s or am I just pissing with the schedule for no good reason?