Base Training

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  • oops i WASN'T
  • That does seem to be the case hilly. perhaps you could just identify the quietest three months of the year and leave it till then? As you've sussed there will be some sacrifice in terms of not doing the races (well, not at race-pace anyway) but still the longer term gain. Alternativey a laboratory test may reveal you're already super-efficient, your LT is a v.high %age of your VO2 and you don't stand to gain anything! [don't think it would for me :-( ]
  • if you want to push up your LT then base training definitely ISNT for you.... speed work and intervals is
  • LT measured in HR, as it usually is, of course

    not speed
  • I'll continue to race over the next 3 months, hilly. As Chaos suggests, these tend to be the quietest months and the races, whilst being club championship, are not the ones I particularly want to peak for.

    It probably means I won't progress as quickly as someone with the solitary goal of a quick marathon next spring who foregoes all anaerobic running, but I think it will stop me getting stale with more of the same that I've done for the last 3 years.

    Andy, I hate change when it is wrongly seen as progress (e.g. government education reforms), but welcome it when I think it can improve things (e.g. base training in my running).
  • i hate change when it weighs my pocket down or spills out over the bedroom floor, but welcome it when i wish to use a vending machine!
  • Quote:

    "if you want to push up your LT then base training definitely ISNT for you.... speed work and intervals is"

    On the contrary Andy - if you have read the Hadd article (and subscribe to what it is preaching of course) it is exactly this sort of training that pushes up the LT. The link below explains the thinking behind this:

    http://www.lactate.com/pilact3.html

    If you accept your LT is at a particular percentage of max HR (which may differ according to conditions etc) it makes sense to maximise your pace at this level (and base training is a way of approaching this) rather than trying to maximise your LT to suit whatever pace you think you should be running.

    In my opinion, a period of base training is all about patience and having belief in what you are doing and, more importantly, why you are doing it. If you do not expect to see any benefits by doing it then by all means continue to train as you wish.

    However, if I can hold PM up as an example (hope you don't mind PM) - 7min miles at 145bpm (no lactate production at all) should surely serve as some sort of proof of the value of base training?
  • Er, that would be 6:40 now, Davros... ;-)
  • Need I say more.....
  • Having read that, PM, I can't wait to begin my base training.

    My current race pace is about 8 mins/mile or just over for a 10K and a bit under for a 5K. If I can get to 7 min miles at 150 bpm that will be a serious improvement!
  • Bet you do... :-)
  • i said in terms of hr
  • you cant really assume where your LT is anyway, since a lot of it is genetic and it can be elevated by speedwork (eg I wouldn't be surprised if BR's wasn't at some enormously high level)

    if you want to train at aerobic levels you should get tested reasonably frequently
  • Hi all,

    I read all of this thread last night, and I think it's brilliant! This is definitely the way for me to go at the moment, as my training is so inconsistent. I have no races planned in the forseeable future either, so no race goals to achieve. I also have no HRM, so I suppose I can't get very technical with it all, but then again, I think that working up to an hour per run is a good enough goal in itself, without all of the technical stuff.

    Thanks for the inspiration,
    Hildy

    p.s. cos I need inspiration!! Work is getting me down. :(
  • HRMs are dead cheap though, when you think what you can get out of having one.
    Definitely the best sports-type purchase I have made (other than my running shoes and Ibuprofen).
  • Wasn't having a go Andy - just expressing an opinion and adding to the debate (hopefully!)
  • i've seen hrms for £20 - dont need anything fancy
  • Perhaps after I move back to the UK next summer - here in Norway everything is at least twice the price, and so I always feel that I'm getting completely ripped off.
  • buy it online from Spain or somewhere else cheap!
  • but yeah if you can't do an hour per run at the moment then gradually working up to that will keep you going!
  • I decided to start with half hour runs - it's a little chilly here. But it was a good run, so I'm looking forward to doing another one tomorrow.
  • My max HR is 199, min is 44. I reckon on doing LT runs between 166-174 bpm. Are you saying this range can change with training?

    I'd assumed my LT would always be in this range and the only thing that would change would be how fast I was going due to training.
  • I have also puzzled about this BR - I know that training affects how fast you are going before you hit the LT range - but I also seem to find that threshold runs affect the amount of time you can run tolerably in the LT zone - Does this make sense theoretically or is it complete garbage?

  • What I mean is - once upon a time (ie about 2 yrs ago), when my heart rate reached 160, I would really be feeling a bit rough. Gasping a bit. Counting down the yards to the finish.

    Now? When my hr reaches 160, I know that I can "cruise" at this level of moderately high effort for a good 20 minutes. What has happened? Maybe I'm just a bit less nesh than I used to be and it's all psychological, or is it physiological?

  • LynneW is right - LT will increase as fitness progresses. Up to in excess of 90% of MHR in some elite, I believe... (but don't quote me on that!)
  • Surely the LT should be a long way off in the beginning because, if I read it correctly, lactate production inhibits 'slow twitch' muscle fibre/ capilliary and mitochondria production?

    I have a very simple plan, I have HR set between 132-142 (roughly 180-38(age)) also MaxHR(184) -50) then try to run 1-1.5hrs/day on 4-5days/ week and 2-2.5hrs on Sunday. Currently that is about 10min/mile cf target Half Mara pace of 8m/m so means somewhere between 40 and 60 miles. I'll keep this up for at least 3 months with minimal racing - Couple of XC and a Half each in Nov and Dec. Do I need to complicate it more than that at this stage??

    Bod
  • This is precisely why I am trying this approach. I have been training pretty hard for about 2 years now, and have seen some pretty good gains in my fitness.
    In my last 5k race my average HR was 191 which I reckon must be nearing 90%, and I can do a 10k at 185bpm.
    Unfortunately this doesn't make me particularly fit (5k pb is 25mins), it just means that I have a high LT.

    So I am happy to spend a few months trying this 'base training' lark. If all goes well I will be able to get my LT back up pretty quickly, and get some good improvements in speed.
    The worst case scenario (as far as I can see) is that my fitness will stay at the same level, but I get 3 months of easy training :-)
  • As far as I could make out from the reading I've done on this, you should train at or below your aerobic max until you can run about 10 miles consistently at constant pace and constant heart rate (and feel at the end like you could do the whole lot again). Then you can up the HR by 5 bpm, and start the whole process again ...
  • BTW, how do you know what your LT is?
  • to test your LT you need to go to a sports lab - involves lots of unpleasant fingertip blood samples

    LT, in terms of hr, moves with training

    base training pushes it up, but not that efficiently

    LT training (such as 3 minute hard intervals/3 minute recovery) pushes it up much more efficiently

    -but aerobic and LT training do interfere with each other, hence periodisation (work on one, then the other)

    but bear in mind that periodisation is used extensively by ironman triathletes/tour cyclists etc who aim for one or two peaks

    if you want to compete all year it might not be for you
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