Base Training



  • Phew, I've finally read through the whole of the thread. It's very interesting especially reading the Hadd article.

    Once I've run Windsor 1/2M on Sunday I'm going to give this a go. I've probably got a good aerobic base but some of that is unspecific as it is derived from C2 Rowing and cycling.

    What I've lacked in the past is the discipline to run slowly, as my legs are quite strong I get carried away and sooner or later get injured.

    It might be a good time to try and get the hang of this Pose stuff too.
  • might have missed it, but i think (?) serpies are having a pose clinic some time around now
  • Andy,

    It's been and gone, I think it was received quite well. I'm a member of the Serpies but was away at the time.
  • Now i went on the treadmill today at the gym and i want to know if what i did was right or wrong

    I used a heartrate program on the treddie put in my age weight etc. it told me my target rate was 129bpm. so i ran for 35 minutes at around 6.7 km per hour.
    It had a hill incline so when i exceeded 129 bpm it would go down and vice-versa it felt so slow even though i sweated very slightly

    I didn't run much more or worked harder just the bike and the treddie today as i have a race coming up sunday week and have started to cut back on my distances

    I am so slow anyway but have decided to give the base training ago after my race

    I do want to get faster and run a decent time
  • Hi all

    I am seriously thinking of giving this a try. I only have the brighton 10K lined up and if necesary will do it at base rate.

    I have done the Allen calculation and my max heart rate would be 138. This seems extremely low as I ran the flora light 5K at 190+ and peaked at 200. I was a little tired but had no real ill effects.

    My normal long run slow pace is usually at 155 160 bmp

    Any advice /comments would be welcome.
  • Josie,
    The HR seems somewhat low - if you are hitting 200bpm in a marathon the it seems as if your HR is higher than average. It would be intersting to see how you applied the formula to get that figure. Do remember that is a guide and not gospel. I would recommended 145 bpm initially and perhaps as much as 150 depending on the application of the formula.

    The problem with such a program on these machines is twofold:
    1) The formula is over simplified and very unreliable - use the 180 formula (link earlier on this thread) and see if the machine will let you set that HR manually - if not fake your details to get that figure!
    2) This program takes no account of cardiac drift. If I am running for 1hr and want to stay below 145bpm and want to run at a constant pace, then I will probably hit 1/2hr at 135bpm. You are far better, IMHO, running at a set pace (following a gradual build up to warm up) which will bring your HR to the desired level at the ned of the run despite running at a constant pace. Educated guesses and trial & error is the only way to get it right...
  • Thanks pantman, i think on the machine you can actualy change your target heartrate so will do that next time
  • PM -I had a conversation with Hosie last night in the pub (plus with several others). Her calculation of target heartrate is based on the 180-age and then subtract five as not exercising that many times per week.

    As Lindi pointed out - surely things like RHR have to come into the calculation somewhere? People can be so different it seems odd to have something based just on age and frequency of exercising.

    ANy comments, better versions of the formula?
  • Pant man

    You have come up with exactly the heart rate I was going to use :-)

    I do have quite a high rate but I really want to build my core strength up.

    Base training starts today :-)
  • WWWFR - I hav efound the 180 formula to be better in practice than the standard one involving RHR.

    Josie, I would ideally start aiming for 145 so that you don't go too slow and then as fitness improves allow some to go up to 150 and keep others below 140.

    And I have a sin to confess - went over my designated 145 for a few minutes last night... Why? Well, I was running up a long hill and saw a bike ahead and I could swear it was getting closer - opportunities such as this rarely raise their head so I upped it a bit... Anyway as we crested the top of the hill I cruised (really, I was feeling so smooth and strong) past the poor cyclist who'd being struggling up the climb on his outside (i.e. on the road) - just to make it abundantly clear to all what had occurred. The look on his face was worth a million...
    Also, I now know that 155bpm is still below LT...
  • Pantman - has the experience tempted you into racing soon ?
  • Er, I AM looking to race soon too...
    BUT I will be staying aerobic t/out races.
    Trent Park 10K Oct 25th; Chelmsford 10K Nov 23rd and Witham 5 Dec 26th are my first 3 monthly outings, God willing...
    So no real change of plan - just an opportunity that couldn't be ignored...
  • You'll have to be very strict with yourself to stay aerobic in a race environment (I didn't manage it). Glad it is all still going well for you.

    Those races are not in my plans for this year, but it would be good to meet up next year for a battle of the base-building ex-lardies!

  • NAUGHTY! Pantman.

    - bet it was sweet, though...

  • I'm all for meeting up at a race and supporting each other, but you have a sub 50min 10 mile PB and I'm gonna be aerobically faster than EVER before by Christmas at this rate. That's not a battle - it's annihilation!

    But I will cheer the loudest when you break 2:20 at London..!
  • MinksMinks ✭✭✭
    Pantman, did I hear you say a 10K at Trent Park on 25th October? Haven't seen this listed ... but I live down the road from there so am tempted to do this. Did the Trent Park Running Club's 'Triffic Trail' in June and loved it; great course (a bit hilly!) and good atmosphere.
  • See you there then, Minks...
  • MinksMinks ✭✭✭
    Is it the Run London Ragged 10K? Just found it on a search of the 'Events' section on here ...
  • I am teaching a course on Friday nights down the road from there too, so I may be going for runs in the park on Fri afternoons soon too. I sounds like a great place to run...
  • Yep - same one!
  • MinksMinks ✭✭✭
    PM, it's a really nice place to run. I ran there a lot during the summer - lots of different surfaces (road, grass, trail, stony path) and nice open space. As I run in the evenings I won't be going there for much longer I guess - too dark and as the running surface isn't always even I don't want to risk a sprained ankle (not to mention the safety factor, which sadly us lone females must take into account).

    If I enter this race I'll see you there!
  • MinksMinks ✭✭✭
    BTW, where are you teaching?
  • Wichmore Hill, I think - is that close to trent park?
  • Can I just ask what is *so* bad about going over the 180 - age figure? Surely you still get the benefit from all the time spent below the correct level - or does it all vanish if you spend two minutes above it or do the occasional speed session?

    My questions will probably stop once I get the books through, but until then I'm keen to know as I'm a theory junkie!
  • MinksMinks ✭✭✭
    Yes, Winchmore Hill is quite close to Trent Park (and where I live). I usually run Friday evenings (about 6:30pm) - depending on what time you're teaching we could meet for a run?

    Email me if you like so as to avoid sabotaging the thread!
  • I need to be getting ready at 7:00pm as class starts at 7:30pm - was thinking of running mid-afternoon so I can maintain it even when clocks go back...

    WWWFR, Not a HUGE difference, agreed, as long as it is still aerobic - once you go anaerobic there is a significant physiological shift. Heck, even I went over night, but still aerobic.
    I guess you just have to watch it - if 147 is close enough to 145, what about 148? 150? And before you know it you are up to 155bpm. Fine for two minutes in a month to overtake a cyclist, but if becomes acceptable to you every other run, you are changing the structure of what you are doing.
  • RE base(aerobic) training
    What is it that one is training? If its heart and lungs, only then swimming is just as good as slow running? Sounds daft, but I find running slowly is really tough on the knees, and going faster is more comfortable. But this is no good for base training, as HR goes up.
    So real Q is, can you base train for running, by swimming?
  • Nope. You will still train your heart and Lungs but the key limiting factor in aerobic training is what is going on in the muscles - capillaries, mitochondria et al. Thus the specificity of training.

  • I am about three weeks into base training and am finding it very difficult to stay in my range - 180-32=148, I find it hard to stay under 160 really. Obviously this is because I am really unfit and a little overweight but what do I do? I feel like I am going backwards by walking most of my 'runs' whereas my earlier goals were to just keep running. Not sure what to do?

  • May be worth looking at your breathing pattern and upper body tension. One way to ensure your breathing is not too shallow is to force yourself to only breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth for several paces at a time. Think about "belly-breathing" using the diaphragm. Also things like relaxing the shoulders by tensing them and then letting them drop can help. Another thing to try whilst running is to hold your arms straight out in front of your (hands clasped together) for a few paces. If this is really awkward it will very quickly reveal if your over-rotating the upper body/swaying too much/etc. Repeat with your hands held behind you as high as possible.

    I can usually get my HR down a few beats just by focussing on relaxing and eliminating unnecessary upper body movements.

    hth, Mark.
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