P + D training for VLM 2013

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  • Al: don't beat yourself up. I always find those LT sessions goddamn hard. High mileage knocks off a lot of speed, at least for me (and I'm not particularly fast to start with). Give it time. Those sessions should feel easier as the schedule goes on. From memory just when I hit the paces ok and started to love the LT sesh it got replaced by intervals image

    Tried beetroot - didn't do anything for me other than cause pink wee image and it tastes imageimageimage. I think you are supposed to drink half a litre a day for the 4 days leading up to your race (or something like that). Not for me, thanks ...

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭

    Wow, this is a very busy thread - dare to blink and you miss 2 pages!

    Massive kudos to everyone that made it out in the quite spectacularly miserable weather this weekend, a true sign of commitment to the cause.

    A rest day from running for me, lunchtime circuits class instead. Not my favourite activity but just glad to be out of the wind and rain and sleet etc..

    No Pain - what plan are you following?

    As for the LT discussion, i think it's perfectly understandable to be struggling to hit pace at this stage. Your body is still trying to adjust to the increased mileage and hard sessions. I always think you should be setting your threshold pace on your current fitness, not your target fitness and then it will improve as the programme goes on.

  • Al - I think it's normal to have days where we struggle. It's just tiredness from all the hard training.

    I wouldn't worry about it too much,



    It was me that bought the beet root juice, I actually bought the little concentrated shots from holland and barratts. Haven't had chance to try them yet because my race was cancelled last week.



    Rest day for me today, legs were tired this morning but nothing too major.

    The only complaint I've got at the moment is my toes are feeling painful after my long runs, I think I could do with my shoes being half a size bigger but I like a snug fit.



    Easy swim this afternoon and an early night before another tough run tomorrow!
  • Al runs never thanked you properly for starting this thread off; think lots of us now getting motivation from it. Keep going for the sub 3, it will be after the next cycle and well into the third before you can know if its on.

    The beet juice thing is now only 1 of the beet it shots for 3 days before race day, not during the race at all. The ideas is that this builds up nitrate levels which increase O2 uptake efficiency in muscles therefore improving performance. I've tried it twice and suppose its difficult to say if it worked (no control test) but am convinced by the science. Prolonge increased nitrate not good though so is not something to be doing over a longer period of time.

    Just off for 5 miles easy now

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Stutyr well done on the 18 mile run, I know what you mean about the first half running into the wind and that's a nice 50 miles for the week. image

    Chick well done on your 5 easy.

    Al-runs 15 seconds off 6:20 don't fret 6:35 is still a LT run and on legs with lots of miles in them, some days you will hit the pace others you will be a bit out we still have 11 and a bit weeks to go and some people are only just starting a marathon plan for London also it's still 22 seconds a mile faster than MPimage well done.

    Chris 77 Chick is right your supposed to drink it for 4 or 5 days before and yes I have done it and it turns your pee pink lol.

    Alan-B I'm on 70 to 90 my mileage for the past few weeks is: 84, 76 and 79 and should be 84 again this week. It's got me 2:58 so I know it works for me I also feel a lot stronger this time round image



    54x25m front crawl and 4 miles easy with 8 lots of strides tonight image (Rest day)
  • Having returned from tonights party for my daughter and her firends aged 5 to 7, I now know the true meaning of the word "exhaustion" image.  P&D is a doddle in comparison.

  • Tenjiso wrote (see)

    Having returned from tonights party for my daughter and her firends aged 5 to 7, I now know the true meaning of the word "exhaustion" image.  P&D is a doddle in comparison.

    Ah Bless ..image I remember those days...now I have grand kids to exhaust me, but actually I didn't feel as bad as I thought I was going to today it is the first time I have stayed up to look after the little one after a night shift and expected to feel like pooh..I always , always go to bed and never stay up after a shift !!!.but I managed to get a nap the same time as him after lunch and felt refreshed enough for a 5 miler tonight.

    Dreading tomorrows LT session..it my most hated sessions EVER !! I would rather run 21 miles and to make it worse the forecast is s**t

     

  • After last weeks recovery week I felt fairly fresh so didn't want to wait until tomorrow to do my 10m with 5 @ LT. However due to the wind I decided to do the 5 @ LT on a treadmill.

    I did the 1st 5 miles were ran on the streets close to my gym at an avg of 7.45 m/m with an avg HR of 78% of max. The avg pace and the perceived effort for each of the miles varied hugely depending on whether I was running with or against the wind.

    The 5 miles on the treadmill averaged 6.45mm with an avg HR of 86% of max. TBH it seemed harder maintaining that pace indoors than it usually does on the roads but I'm quite pleased with the workout.

    Re Beetroot Juice - I'm a big fan of beetroot juice. Well let me rephrase that, I think beetroot juice is fairly disgusting but am convinced that the benefits make drinking it worthwhile. I have consumed 500ml 2 or 3 hours before a few 5ks and thought that it made a noticeable difference to my performance.

    An abstract of an interesting study by the University of Exeter can be found here however it might not be the best idea for people with a delicate stomach. I think I'll get some of the Beet Shots to try in the future. 

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Morning all...like a lot of you I also have a LT run today. 10 mi w/ 5 @LT pace. For last LT workout I did the 5mi bit on a trail loop near my work, 6 times round was just about 5 mi, so I'll probably do that again. Think I'll be running it in the rain though. Hope all your LT runs go well. Ziggy I have done a fair amount of LT runs on treadmills, the biggest difference is not having to worry about sticking to the pace as treadmill takes care of that, and getting very hot and sweaty on the treadmill.

    I have tried a beetshot but only in a marathon expo thingy; didn't think tasted too bad...I keep thinking of stocking up then taking in the days leading up to a race but haven't yet. May do this time.

  • Legs are feeling almost refreshed after last week, so I'm actually not dreading tonight's LT run as much as usual. Also got a couple of new pairs of trainers to try out so am sadly looking forward to giving them a go. One things for sure it's going to be wet tonight! Good luck everyone.

    15w may try the same with the beetroot before London. Worth a shot during taper week.
  • Morning everyone, good luck to all those LT running today. 

    Beet it shots...I'm convinced enough to give them a try now so have ordered a batch, will try before Silverstone HM. 

    I've decided to try a hybrid week this week combining elements of the under 55 and up to 70 schedules. Will be a 60 mile week which I haven't done for a few months but should be within my limits. 11M MLR today then.

  • Morning all and thanks to Al Runs from me, the thread is compelling, full of information and interest from some very experienced runners and it has a way of making sure you don't slack, very inspiring.
    I don't take beetroot juice but I do normally eat a couple of baby beetroots a day in my salad box at work, not sure if it has any effect on my running and don't know how it measures up against juice.  I just love the taste of them.
    NP that is a rest day, with some strides, or all out sprints in your case?
    Ten, at least you have a scheduled rest day after the party.
    Ziggy, good combo for the LT run. I am never certain about the accuracy of the speed on treadmills compared to the GPS of a Garmin, so often use heart rate to set the speed.
    Because I shuffled my recovery week last week and rested on Sunday I decided to shuffle again this week and ran my 10 mile LT last night.  Driving rain and high winds aside, plus running much of it on long uphill drags it looked just about right from an average heart rate pov, it certainly felt tough on the quick miles. It is the first morning I have had sore leg muscles since starting the programme though some of it may be the uphill effort?  Gives me a rest day today though and apart from some strides later in the week the rest of the running is all at GA, recovery or LSR pace.

     

  • JF50 -- apparently eating beetroot isn't as good because of nitrates lost in the cooking process. But I don't see why some raw grated beetroot in a delicious vinaigrette wouldn't be as good. Then again, I am the kind of weirdo that would probably quite enjoy the taste of the juice.

    Good luck to everyone doing their LT runs today (and well done to all those who've heroically already done them). I attempted a gentle run today (not the scheduled LT run though, on a dodgy achilles, as I'm not a total idiot) but unfortunately gave up on it as I don't think I'm quite recovered yet. I'm going to keep resting and then reassess the situation (in terms of training time left/missed) when it's better.

  • Trying to psyche myself to run today, woke up feeling really tired this morning. Head is feeling a bit fuzzy so I hope I'm not getting a cold.



    Just wondering if the LT run is a good idea or whether I should just keep it nice and easy?
  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Hi Mark, I think your following the sub-55m schedule. If you are, could you swap the 10m with 5@ LT for Thursday's 11m Med-Long run?  

    I'm finding the LT sessions to be the hardest, so I'd rather do them when I'm feeling right as I really struggled with the previous one in the plan mainly due to my head not being with it that particular day, whereas when I ran the 10m with 5@ LT last week it felt a lot better (even if I was still a bit off-pace!).   

  • literatin: sorry to hear the achilles is still playing up image

    mark1981: see how you feel tonight. If you feel worse, ditch the run and just do a few easy miles - that might knock the cold on the head. The LT sesh will take too much out of you and leave you very likely unhappy coz it didn't go well and may even cause the cold to turn nasty.

    Tenjiso wrote (see)

    Having returned from tonights party for my daughter and her firends aged 5 to 7, I now know the true meaning of the word "exhaustion" image.  P&D is a doddle in comparison.

    image sounds like the kids a lots of fun image


    ZiggyTheSpider wrote (see)

    After last weeks recovery week I felt fairly fresh so didn't want to wait until tomorrow to do my 10m with 5 @ LT. However due to the wind I decided to do the 5 @ LT on a treadmill.

    I did the 1st 5 miles were ran on the streets close to my gym at an avg of 7.45 m/m with an avg HR of 78% of max. The avg pace and the perceived effort for each of the miles varied hugely depending on whether I was running with or against the wind.

    The 5 miles on the treadmill averaged 6.45mm with an avg HR of 86% of max. TBH it seemed harder maintaining that pace indoors than it usually does on the roads but I'm quite pleased with the workout.

    image - great run, Ziggy. Huge kudos for treadmill running - I just can't do it image

    I bit the bullet yesterday and made it a double. Forecast for this morning was horrendous. Forecast was right, coz I did a 6 mile recovery run and got completely soaked and blown around ...

    So I did my LT run last night. It was windy but bearable. And not wet. Surprised myself with 7:10 pace feeling easy. Had to step on the brakes a few times as I was closer to 10k than tempo pace image. Go figure. I bet it was a one off. Recovery run this morning felt dreadful. Heavy, lethargic, tired image.

  • Stu I'm doing the 55-70 plan so this week looks like this-



    Tues- 10 (5@lt)

    Wed - 14 MLR

    Thurs - 5 rec

    Fri - 11 MLR

    Sat - 7 strides

    Sun - 21 LR



    Chickadee - I might just go out this afternoon and see how it goes when I'm out.

    Don't really feel ill, just don't want to bring anything on as it looks likes tough week.
  • Mark - I have totally switched my run to accommodate busy work and Rugby weekendsimage so am doing 11 tonight and flipped my LT to Thursday and will do it as an extension to my club session, I am also looking to go long on Saturday Am as I wont be fit for much more than a recovery run on Sundayimage.  I would personally push your LT to tomorrow and do your 11 (or 14 depending on how you feel) today with the final MLR on Friday.

    Good work on the Doubles Chickadee. LT comfortable on week one of mesocycle 2 is a good sign.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    JF50 Well done on your 10 mile with 5 @LT. Sounds like it was a hard one.

    Lit hope your dodgy achilles is on the mend.

    Mark change Tue for Friimage.

    Chick nice running with a little change of plan thrown inimage

    Mennania enjoy your 11miles tonight.

    10 miles with 5@ LT for me today, as soon as I stepped out the door the heavens openedimage running in shorts the legs felt a little on the cool side but there was little to no windimage splits for the total run:7:52, 6:09, 6:31, 7:19, 7:02, 7:06, 6:02, 6:10, 6:36, 8:07, I split the 5 miles at Tempo up and kept the pace steady in between, very happy at this stage of my trainingimage easy running for the rest of the week as I have a trail 10k race on Saturdayimage and will use that as a Tempo run.

     

     

     

     

     

  • Thanks for the advice everyone, I think ill put the LT run off until later in the week, I just don't really want to do a LT run, strides then long run 3 days in a row but I might change the strides for an easy run if need be.



    Nice run NP it'll feel easy running London after all these hills you are training on!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    LT run done at lunchtime. Went ok - wish I hadn't worn two layers though, I was a bit hot and sweaty at end. Splits: 8.17 (stopped to sort out shoe laces), 7.48, 7.56. 6.3, 6.19, 6.14, 6.2, 6.18, 7.17, 7.25. Actually started LT pace at 3.1 miles when got on loop of trail....errr..so 1st LT mile actually a bit quicker than 6.3.

    Nice running everyone else, hope cold doesn't turn for the worse mark. If gets into the chest best to take a few days off altogether.

  • Well when I got up the weather looked ok...but as usual by the time I actually sorted myself out and got out the door the rain was coming down and the wind was picking up , neither a head wind or tail wind..more of a side battering wind....always a shock these session..aiming for sub 7.40s seem to take a while for legs to get the message...2.5 miles easyish either side
    LT bit.. 7.50...7.45...7.33...7.32...7.35 
    AVE HR 84.5% 

    Mark yes leave it definitely they are the hardest sessions to deal with at the best of times

    NP shorts !! my god thats macho in this weather !! nice pace and lucky you no wind to contend with

    Chick super pace, looking good welldone you

    JF50 sounds a tough run, enjoy the well earned rest day

    15w  great splits , even most of the ones either side of the LT section are faster than my LT...phew !!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    Night Nurse wrote (see)

    NP shorts !! my god thats macho in this weather !! nice pace and lucky you no wind to contend with

    I thought it was pretty mild today. Maybe Manchester is in it's own little microclimate. Also...I've been running in shorts all winter, but then I am very macho.

  • What order do people do their fast miles? I usually do 4 slow, 5 fast then 1 slow. Wonder i should start the fast miles earlier before I get too tired?
  • 2,5 fast, then 3 for me. I like to get them over and done with early on, but think its an individual thing. Really not looking forward to a tempo in this Gail! I had better pick the right direction to go in!
  • Much more macho than me then 15west.

    Not only have I been wearing running tights but I also wear compression socks just to make sure I don't get a draft around about my delicate little ankles.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    That's probably best way to do them SR...you need some time to warm up, and probably a shorter amount of time to cool down. Today I did 3 slow, 5 fast and 2 slow; just because on my running route it was easier that way.

  • I wore compression tights most of last week but will be wearing shorts tonight as its a balmy 13degres. Have chaffing issues with tights....
  • 15West wrote (see)

    I thought it was pretty mild today. Maybe Manchester is in it's own little microclimate. Also...I've been running in shorts all winter, but then I am very macho.

    I am a sountern sofie 15w..I did wear 3/4s though not full length..image

    SR I do 2.5 easy then 5 LT then 2.5 easy I don't think it makes much difference

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Lol at the Southern Softieimage

    15West well done on the Lt run, I mixed it up but kept the overall pace up a bit, just depends what mood I'm in I also tend to go off a bit fast at the tar image

    NN great running well done but no macho men hereimage

    LOL at Ziggy.



    4 recovery miles done now for my cold bathimage
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