P + D training for VLM 2013



  • 15West wrote (see)
    I thought it was pretty mild today. Maybe Manchester is in it's own little microclimate. Also...I've been running in shorts all winter, but then I am very macho.

    Warm and sunny here todayimage

  • Afternoon all

    I did the dreaded 10 miles with 5 LT last night into the same strong wind.  I essentially ran a square and on 3 of 4 sides there was a headwind - how does that work.

    Chris - I have all sorts of problems with toenails - currently missing 3 and 4 hanging on for dear life.  It can take ages for them to come off.  I dropped a drawer on my big toe in August and it is just hanging on.  I also have a new toe problem with resulted in a blood bath in my sock last night. Absolutely no idea what happened and I can't see any break in the skin. image I've also tried bigger shoes which did not help - I just totally rubbed the soles and heels out of my socks so went back to the smaller ones which don't seem to make the problem worse.  I might try those socks tho'.

    It is still incredibly windy here today so my recovery miles will be very slow I think and in the dark which is a pity as it is lovely out at the moment.

    NP - the only cold bath I do is a wander into the sea when I've finished running when on holiday so pleasantly cool, not icy cold.image

  • Good LT Fiona, agree tough out there.  In a previous job I used to work on airfields which generally have a roundish perimeter track.  They are all open and windy and the wind never changes direction, it's always in your face.

    Any guys who have played football will know that feeling when you push your foot into a sock before a match and think "what's that sharp bit sticking in my foot" pull the sock off to reveal somebody's toenail from a previous matchimage  At least it's been launderedimage

  • Just finished 14 tough, windy miles. I'm still feeling a bit fatigued from the long run on Sunday I think.

    I'm someone else suffering with my feet, I've got black toe nails and blisters on the tips of my toes.

    Don't know if anybody watched the tennis on Sunday, it showed Andy Murrays feet when he took his shoes off and they looked a mess, he had all his toes individually taped up, I'm wondering if it would be worth trying this.
  • Well, I'm still not training but at least I can contribute to the toe discussion! Fiona, it sounds like you got a blood blister under your toenail which burst during the run from the same pressure and that'd be where the blood was from. Not a problem but whichever toenail it was will probably fall off eventually. Nick, if the black toenails are uncomfortable you might try draining out the fluid -- NN would know...

    Meanwhile I am cross-training and have just been to my first x-biking class. The actual sweatiest thing I've ever done, I think. I have not been taking cold baths.

  • Arghh I cannot keep up with you lot!  Well done everyone keeping on keeping on, very inspirational - well except for the shrivelled bollocks part... image

    Literatin - hows the achilles?  

    Chickadee - brilliant time to be aiming for!  I often wonder whether I will reach the sub 3:30 one day - hopefully I will. 

    Re feet - mine are a mess.  My right big toe has no toenail at all and is always blistering because of the lack of protection.  Might get a small Durex on it. 

    My training back on track - yee ha.  I have done my 10 mile general aerobic (well it was 9.2 miles 1200ft climb of bloody tough trails), 5 mile recovery run (which was 520ft of climb....) and today's LT session was in horrendous wind and could only do 4 miles of it, the 5th mile was effort of running my fastest mile ever but Garmin was telling me 8:30m/m!  Oh well, they always say LT should be on effort not pace (I pray I didn't see anyone I knew, I thought they would ring an ambulance, I would have looked desperate).  LT was all between 7:49 and 7:27.  9 miles average pace was 8:19m/m.  Rest tomorrow then big 18 on Friday.  Longest run since Chester Marathon.  I didn't do the 18 on Sunday like I said, it would have been suicide after being ill.

    15 - yep, I agree re weather today similar to Manchester marathon but the rain was not being quite as big a bastard.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    HeOw - good to have you and your potty mouth back.

  • Lit - generally I would agree with you but all the likely culprits are missing nails currently.

    HeOw - what you need is a silicone toe protector tube. Morrisons is the only place that I can find that sell them. Look with the foot creams and stuff. They are fantastic. I use them on every run as I stick my big toes in the air si it stops the trauma. They feel a little odd at first but work a treat.

    Mark 1981 - I did see andy Murray and my OH commented that his feet looked as bad as mine.
  • 15W, we aren't quite at the Chester thread levels of foulness yet.  Give it time though, give it time... image

    Fiona, will give those tubes a try, thanks!

  • Glad to hear everyone's feet are suffering. We must be doing the training right and have the scars to show for it!

    14 MLR done and dusted for another tick off the chart. 14 miles in 1h 41m (ave 7.14). Started nice and easy at around 7.45 pace as I was feeling last nights effort, but felt good at the end and even managed a few final miles sub 7.00 ( I know I shouldn't but it felt ok). Looking forward to a very easy recovery 5 miles tomorrow now.

    Hope everyone is still going strong.
  • HeOw, it great to hear you sounding so positive!!

    I currently have 7 toe nails but I'm optimistic that I might achieve 8 if I look after my feet.

    My wife wears toe protectors whilst running. I just don't like the idea of them.

    I've moved this week's sessions forward one day so that I can just cross train on  Thursday & Friday before doing parkrun on Saturday. So tonight was my 11m MLR. Started off at 8m/m pace and increased it a little until the last few were about 7.15m/m. 

    My Avg HR at 80% of max was maybe a little higher than I would have liked but I really enjoyed it and was tempted to go on a bit further, which I think is a really good sign.

  • 14 miles done tonight.  Felt easy after yesterday's efforts. Did it in 1.44.

  • Evening,
    well looks like everyone is running well despite the ruddy wind.
    Fiona..well done on the LT and I know what you mean about the headwind..how comes it hardly ever becomes a tailwind ?
    My run tonight was a side wind and a head wind..
    Chick super progressive MLR
    NP seems like the cold bath worked..nice pace for your 14..I wont be trying the cold baths myself though
    I find bigger shoes dont help  either and always have black toenails..nice..
    Mark I couldn't believe the state of Murray's feet either, you would think him of all people would have top notch treatment/trainers to prevent that...yuk !! mind you mine arent much better

    Literatin..sorry to hear you still arent running..yes you are right stick a nice hot needle into the offending nail..see the blood spurt out but boy does it relieve the pressure...hope you are back on the road soon
    Heow..yipeeee you are better now, good to see a positive post from you  honey,,
    Chris weldone on the ah hem !! EASY pace 14

    And ziggy..even faster
    My 14 tonight went like
    managed to run progressive despite wind..which was more of a side wind than anything else..but really strong..

    2 hours 5 mins

    ave hr 75.9% pleased with that..

  • Another great day running it seems for P&D'rs, the commitment being show by people  really is impressive and will be rewarded on race day.

    I did Saturdays 7 with strides tonight as doing the LT on Sat. Ended up doing a 4,8,12,1600m pyramid instead of the strides.

    Hope everyone not feeling too tired and keeping well hydrated, I noticed my pee been a darker colour last week so been trying to increase water intake.

    Keep on keeping on image

  • Great running SR, NN and Mark. NN - Mananging good progressive like that in the wind is really good going.

    And Mark, I know what you mean about the hydration (or lack of). I really don't drink enough and need to make a concerted effort to increase my fluid intake through the day. I don't drink while running so need to make sure I'm increasing the water through the rest of the day - the trouble is though its so easy to forget! Might have to set an alarm on my phone or something.

  • Chris, I never drink whilst running either. On a couple of long runs so far have really felt thirsty in the last couple of miles. What do others do? I been thinking of looping back home when doing 22 and duration runs in the next few weeks.

  • I'm the same Mark. I am generally o.k without fluid (but taking gels) on runs up to 18 miles (my longest so far). I don't really like carrying bottles, but am pretty aware that for the longer runs I should be drinking more. So I think for this Sunday's long run (20 miles) I will pre-stash a few bottles along my route the night before. I'll make sure that I put them in remote (ish) places so that no Saturday night revellers fill them on their way out of the pubs! Its one thing having dark pee myself, but I don't want to be drinking it too!

  • Mark & Chris, I never normally drink while running, but thought I'd better learn if I was going to do a marathon, so I got a bottle belt and used it for my last couple of long runs. A few sips every now and then later in the run seemed enough, though, and I didn't fill the bottle up all the way. Just wanted to get used to drinking while on the move. Re. drinking during the day, I drink loads of water but not all at once; try just keeping water on your desk (if you work at a desk) and sipping, then it'll get to be a habit and not a chore that you have to set an alarm for.

    HeOw - really glad to hear you're back on the road. I'm resting my achilles as it feels fine EXCEPT when attempting to run, but will be planning an amazing comeback (hopefully) in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping to be able to do the marathon even if it's not the fastest time I'd ordinarily be able to do: first one will still be a PB anyway...

  • hEow - Welcome back off the bench!

    Chris J77 -  Slow down! You wont get there if you keep on running MLRs or lsrs at pmp. You have your LT on friday I think? - burn it up then! You know it makes senseimage You will go sub 3 in April  if you can pace your training.

    8 with 3 at LT tonight coz it was a flat bit  - 6.20 (into wind) 6.05 (halfsy halfsy) 5.55 (proper wind assisted).


  • Lit you are showing great patience with the achilles. Even if it is a couple more weeks, you'll still have plenty of time, I know now it must feel like missing out but it really isn't and you could even just take a shorter taper if you felt you needed to make up the miles.

    I'm in the lab most of the day with no drinks allowed so at least have an excuse but I must try harder. 

    In mp long runs I'll take a gel but otherwise not.

    Chris I've thought about pre-stashing but worried bout some dog or other animal peeing on the bottle, but yeah they'd need to be out of view of someone peeing inside them image

  • Ha Mennania. The LT was done last night, so all steady or easy now for the rest of the week. I had my burn up last night and took tonight out steady and just gradually increased at the end - was suprised with the pace after last night, but it felt pretty steady so its all encouraging. I take the point though and know that I need to slow the runs down, but I tend to have a 'groove' that most runs end up at. I will definately be doing tomorrows recovery run well slower than 8min miling though - more towards 9 ti freshen up.

    Good going on the LT run too by the way.

  • I think we all make the mistake of not drinking enough when running especially during cooler winter months..its my job to push fluids down patients and chart it, but when it comes to myself I know I don't drink nearly enough clear fluid, eg tonight 14 miles, no water or gels..

    Mennania....love the wind assisted pace..the into the wind was pretty damn quick too.!!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I don't take water with me on long runs unless it's hot, and then I will take with me but keep stashing different places as prefer not too carry. I do drink a lot of water rest of the time though - I tend to drink hot water a lot. I fill up a big flask of it and have almost constantly got a cup of hot water with me, I've become a bit addicted/obsessed with it. Means having to get up in the night for a pee-pee a few times though....But - I rarely feel dehydrated on any of my long runs etc, I drink quite a lot of tea too.

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭

    Chris - I'd strongly recommend taking water/fluids on the longer runs as it's what you'll be doing on race day and it's good practice taking a few gulps every few miles so that your body can adapt to it. I usually take a water belt for the 20+ milers.


    5 mile recovery for me yesterday and 9 w/ 5 mile tempo tonight. I was planning to join the club session but not sure now as the injured thigh muscle is still playing up. Considering just running it on my own on the grass instead... Grim image


  • There has been a discussion on the sub 3.15 thread re running lsrs without fuel or water. - I think the suggestion is if you get used to running 20+ without it will be significantly easier when you race 20+ with. I tend not to carry anything in this weather other than a tenner incase I get unstuck and whizz into a local shop. Some weigh themselves before the LSR and after to determine what fluid they have lost and need to replace.

    Chris got you confused with Mark!!image I always tend to feel pacy the day after tempo/LT/vo2max runs as 8mm feels too pedestrian. It does take a couple of dyas for the effect of the session to filter through to the legs though.

    NN - london will be easy as long as I have a 25mph wind behind me all the wayimage

    Alan - Hope the thigh settles down.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I have definately got better at running long runs without fuel and water...I think it's something your body gets used to. It's a good idea to practice taking on any sports drink or gel that you will be consuming on race day though.

  • Mennania - I am with you on carrying the tenner. I always like to know that I can get something if I absolutely need to. Just thought there is a water fountain on the coast where I sometimes stop on the longer runs for a quick catch up - so maybe I haven't been doing them too dehydrated after all.

    I have heard about the weighing yourself method, but that sounds a bit too techy and hard work for my liking. Plus, I only weigh 9 stone soaking wet, so I woould probably need a seriously good (expensive) set of scales to note the difference in weight as its likely to be very marginal. I do take lots of gels mind. On an 18 miler I'll take on 3. And was planning to have maybe 6 for the marathon - was thinking one every 30 mins. Maybe a 7th as back up. The only ones I have found I can stomach are the SIS ones (without caffeine - the caffeine ones are rank!).

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Wow some reading back image

    HeOw nice to see you back on plan well done.

    Chris77 well done on the 14 yesterday.

    Ziggy well done on the 11 miles.

    Surrey nice 14 miles for you.

    NN well done on your 14 miles.

    Marks nice change round, with regards to the fluids I have a belt with small bottles and tend to sip every 3 miles normally just water on long runs of 20 and 22 miles I have used two gels come marathon day this would be a total of 6 gels.

    Mennania nice LT even in the wind.

    Alan B enjoy your run tonight.

    7 miles recovery this morning in gale force winds worse so far this year out again later for more image
  • I agree, I can do 18-20 in the winter with no fuel and minimal water BUT in the summer, it is the opposite. 

    Literatin - I am gutted for you that you are having to truly bench yourself - do you think with a bit of a rest you could maybe restart the sub 55 mile plan?  Better to be a tad undertrained than overtrained and all that?  For your first marathon, I definitely would have the mentality just to finish as well as you can.  I find only now, on my third, can I truly begin to "race" it.  It is a tricky distance to master.

    Great run NN - I haven't used my heart rate monitor for ages. 

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