P + D training for VLM 2013

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  • heOw - Not ready for wrexham remotely - was gunning for sub 1.24 but my current steady state runs point to something completely different. Gonna just turn up after a mini taper and see how I feel on the day. Would be nice to pb it but may just turn into a pmp effort, that said I intended to run it in 1,33 last year and finished in 1.28.xx off less trainingimage

  • I'm BACK!!! Just an experimental 4.5-mile run today to see if I was recovered, and no achilles pain at all, not even the tiniest twinge to let me know it had ever been playing up at all. Turns out the massage therapist was right about everything. Needless to say, I did some really serious stretching when I got back! It was just so lovely to be outside though after the week of inadequate gym classes and extra push-ups. Can't wait to get back to some longer runs.

  • Well done Lit!
  • Good running Lit, what a relief to get back to normal training.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Lots of good running going on.

    Literatin, thats really good news that you're back.

    Completed the "10 weeks to go" week from the sub 55 plan and I think its the hardest running I've ever done.  Started the 20 miler yesterday with tired legs, even after taking the previous days 5m recovery at a very leisurely pace, and struggled a little probably due to going without breakfast (my normal routine, but doesn't help on the long runs).  I had a couple of SIS gels with me that got me through it - as NP mentioned these are thinner than most others, so I found these much easier to stomach.

    If you're starting that week of the plan tomorrow with the 7m recovery (with strides), my advice would be to stick to your recovery pace as you'll need to store your energy for the friday & sunday runs.

     

  • Thanks stutyr, that's good advice. I haven't decided which plan to try and slot myself back into yet (had been doing 55-70 but now missed a week) but in any case I'll take it easy for a couple of days until my legs get used to it again. Both plans (sub 55 and 55-70) look pretty similar this week anyway, so I might just skip the strides and maybe miss out a recovery run somewhere (to make up for today not being a rest day) and decide about the MLR mileage when I get to it. Right now I'm just feeling bouncy, though!

  • stutyr I am starting that week but because I can't run on Sunday next weekend bringing it all forward, so 7 miles tonight.  Had planned anyway to run the first 5 at recovery to get yesterday's 18 miles out of my legs, then put the strides in and just round off to 7 at recovery

  • I need a bit of advice, I'm thinking about doing a half marathon on the 24th of this month but this will probably mean ill either have to miss a marathon paced long run or a 20+ mile run out of my schedule.



    What would be the best session to miss or is a race a bad idea and should I stick to the plan?
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Literatin - good news, welcome back!

    stutyr - good advice about those recovery runs - keep them slow (or even miss them out altogther). Also, I find for runs of 18 miles above a breakfast is a good idea - just means waiting for an hour or so after eating before setting off.

    mark - your call really. Half marathon tune up races are recommended as good preparation for a marathon. You could either go all out and race it - or practice your marathon pace under race condtions. With choosing which session you miss that depends on which session you need the most. Do you think you need more practice getting accustomed to your marathon pace, or do you think you need to work on your pure endurance?   I think you should do a bit of both, so a 20+ miler starting slow but increasing the pace throughout and ending with the last few miles at mp.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Hi JF50, I don't think that will be a problem - it may be the cumulative effect of the two weeks running, but I found the "10 weeks to go" much harder than the previous week (even though the step up in mileage isn't huge).  The combo of the three consecutive days - LT, recovery and Long Run - at the end of the week is the tough bit as there's no rest day on Friday (or Thursday in your case).

     

  • Literatin - that is great news!  Fingers crossed all goes well this week.

    Mennania - I too have no idea re Wrexham what to expect after having a dreadful January training wise.  I will just rock up on the day, start at my last HMRP (7:56m/m) and see if I can do better.  Hopefully I can.  I am sure you will do better than you think.

    I am switching my recovery weeks around and doing week 11 this week and week 12 next (recovery), I have had a few easier weeks anyway because of illness so shouldn't make much difference. That means I can do Wrexham HM on a weekend where a 12 miler is my longest run and off the back of an easier week mileage wise.  Makes sense really. 

    Mark - only advice I can give is as a fellow runner, you sometimes have to do things for fun too otherwise, 18 weeks of following a plan to the letter can be hard work.  You could maybe do a couple of miles either side of the HM to make it up to an 18?  Or do 2 mile warm up, 13.1 mile race then do a 3 mile very very easy recovery run in the evening making your tally for that day 18 miles and skip the LT session that week and keep every other run very very easy paced/recovery. 

    stutyr - good advice, I was looking through the next few weeks of the sub 55 plan and thanking my lucky stars I had decided to drop the 55-70 as the sub 55 looks hard enough. It is easy to say at the start before you begin the training "oh that doesn't look so bad".  6 weeks in and reality has hit.  

    JF50 - could you do a HM in a few weeks to gauge fitness and maybe aim for HMRP plus 30-35 secs as your guide?  

  • Literatin brilliant news to have you back off the bench, take it easy for a couple of days, I bet the legs are feeling really fresh and raring to go image

    Mark I am glad you asked that question about the half marathon, I have a 10 mile race on the 17th ( end of 9 wtg )which should be MP 12/15  and a half on the 3rd ( end of 7 wtg )which should be LR 22...the last time I followed this schedule I did a 10 mile and a half  and PB'd on both and Pb'd on the marathon, I followed the plan to letter upto and including the Wednesday session which is 15 MLR then had 3 easy recovery days, a bit nervous at doing that again though after reading everyone's trepidation on here about racing and swapping/missing sessions.

    I tend to race races and find it hard to use them as planned MP sessions, the only  MP session I have planned for the actual day it is scheduled, is end of 5wtg I am doing the Gloucester 20, with 14@MP (may differ if you have the 2nd edition plan))

    Heow I hope you find the up to 55 plan easier to manage, when is Wrexham ?

    As for breakfast I cant get out the door without eating what ever the distance .

     

  • Mark - why dont you do a LSR on the 17th instead, bin the 4 +12 at pmp and replace that with a 1 wu + 13 hmp + 2 wd on the 24th? you can always fit a few pmp miles in on a mlr or lsr if needed and there is also another one mid march too. As previously commented - the 24th can always become a pmp training session rather than a hmp race if you are struggling.

  • Mark, I'm interested to know what you decide as I'm doing a half on the 24th too -- though I'm not deciding how to approach it till I'm back into training properly. Having just missed a week though I'm slightly over the whole 'what if I miss a session' question, so might just go with my original plan if I'm up to it (mini-taper and race it), and fall back on pmp if I find it hard to get back on schedule in the next couple of weeks.

  • Thanks for the replys, Mennania your idea was pretty much what I was thinking of doing.



    HeOw I agree with you about doing a race for a bit of run, I usually get a bit bored after a few weeks of training and I think a race is good as a little target to aim for and a mental break from the training.



    I think ill do a LSR the week before and then try and tag a few miles onto the end of the race. Ill probably drop the MP-LR and tag some more marathon paced miles onto some other runs later in the plan.



    I'm just hope I can recover pretty quick from the race, it's usually about a 4/5 day recovery from a race for me.



    Lit - You probably don't need to be told this but I'd just ease your way back into the more intense runs at first and see how you feel in a week or so.



    Edit just re-read your post and that's pretty much what you are saying anyway!
  • week 6 went well, slight achilles tightness after run yesterday, but seems to be holding up today.

    Week ahead looks like:

    rest / 10 / 4 / 11 / rest / 7 / 18

    I've got nights out with friends on both Fri and Saturday so i'll have to be the annoying mate who's not drinking.

     

  • Hi all, back from a lovely pampering weekend and long walks in the snow. Just skimmed through the weekend exploits but there was so much going on!

    HeOw: you seem to be back running - great stuff!

    Ziggy: awesome parkrunning. Bummer they altered the course image

    NP: fantastic trail race and a podium place to finish image.

    literatin: great news about your pain free run! Long may it continue image


    just added myself to the list image  - now my goal has become real!!

    Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24 
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain - VLM - Sub 2.55 
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM -Sub 3.00 
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15 
    April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25
    April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)

  • Thought I was on there, must be a different list somewhere?

    Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain -VLM - Sub 2.55
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM-Sub 3.00
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15
    April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25
    April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
    April 21 - JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)

  • Can i add my name to this list?

    Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain -VLM - Sub 2.55
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM-Sub 3.00
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15
    April 21 - chick - Hamburg mara - Sub 3:25
    April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
    April 21 - JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)
    April 28 - Agent Ginger - Manchester Mara - Sub 03:57:06

     
  • the P&D plan has a few 10k tune-up races in the last few weeks. Does anyone know of a list of cheap (or free) 10k races that I could find for mid March to mid April?

    The RW Events page seems a bit thin on the ground with Saturday 10k races in London in spring. If there aren't any i guess I could just run round the park a few times.

  • Yeah, it seems that most races in the uk are on Sundays, whereas the book calls for Saturday races. I guess it's a U.S thing with races on Saturdays there? Think I'll just move things around to suit at the time. Maybe long run on the Friday and race Sunday. Just out of interest is anyone else planning to ditch the morning double easy run? I am not a morning person and don't think I can be arsed to get out of bed for an easy few miles before work. I much prefer night. Any harm in just doing the longer 6 mile easy on double day and not doing the 4 in the morn?
  • I think you just have to do what you have time for. I can run morning or evening but  might struggle to fit in both around work and other things. My job's reasonably flexible about when I start and finish most days, but not usually at both ends! (and yes, I could get up earlier like some of the more hardcore people on here, but I really like sleeping).

  • I will take each week  it as it comes, can manage to do the 2 runs tomorrow as I am off work now till Fri night, its then that my problem starts, when to get the 20 miler done ? as I am working Fri, Sat , Sun night, do I do it Fri instead of the 11 LT or Monday ? I dont mind running 13/14 between night shifts but not a 20.

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Stutyr- I'm not sure why the schedule has been swapped around like that on wk10. I think I'm going to do the LT on Tues, recovery on Wed and ML run on Thurs as per usual as I won't have time to do 10 miles on Fri. Next week looks quite a lot easier in comparison, even though it is not the official recovery week.



    As for tune-up races I think they break up training a bit and give a good indicator of progress. On some Sundays the runs are shorter so a race could replace one of those maybe. I don't think we'll find many Saturday races in the UK, apart from parkruns of course.
  • So nice training and advice on here today, training for me to day was 54x25 m front crawl then after a look at my training records its just over 3 weeks since my last no run day so I took today as a rest day from running. Will spend 40 later stretching and on the foam roller. image normal service tomorrow. image
  • AgentGinger - Would it be possible to do your long runs on a Monday?

    Then you could basically just move your schedule a day, so doing a race on a Sunday then LR on a Monday.

    I cant see how ill be able to race on a Sat and then do a long run the day after. It usually takes me days to get over a race, even if i race my way round a parkrun my legs are still sore the day after.

    Those that have followed this schedule before, did you race Sat and then Long Run Sun?

    Im on nights tonight so ill be running home in the morning then back here tomorrow night so that'll be my 10 miles covered.

    I did an easy swim today, feeling nice and refreshed ready to go again tomorrow. image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Agent Ginger

    Sat, 23rd Mar, 2013  Richmond Spring Riverside 10k Run 2013  www.thefixevents.com

    Sat March 30, 2013  Run Richmond Park 10k Race 3 2013  http://www.thefixevents.com/content/run-richmond-park-5k-and-10k-race-3-2013

    Sat April 6, 2013  Bolt Round the Holt 10k  www.boltholt.co.uk

    Sat April 6, 2013 Victoria Park Open 5m  (Hackney)  http://www.vphthac.org.uk/open5

    Sat, 6th Apr, 2013 The Tough 5k 10k 15k Greenwich Park 2013  http://www.thefixevents.com/content/the-tough5-10-15-greenwich-park-2013

    From the Fetch race look-up page – I have nothing to do with thefixevents!! No excuse now...image

     

  • Mark good luck with the run home after a night shift, I couldnt do that, I have to get my sleep before I  run.

  • NN - I have Garmin HRM - which one do you have?  I will get new battery for it as well I think.  

    After fighting demons all day re going out in gales tonight to do my 10 mile LT run, I did it and I am chuffed I did as weather was not quite as bad as I thought (although still bloody windy) and I felt so strong, I seem to be back to full fitness! (tempo always a gauge for me how well I am re asthma etc).  I did an extra LT mile by accident too!  So 10 miles at 8m/m average 9:11; 8:51; 7:46; 7:41; 7:31; 7:31; 7:25; 7:38; 8:28; 8:45.   When I consider my last flat HM back in Sept was 7:58m/m and today was no real huge effort (even on the tempo), I am hoping this is a good sign for Wrexham as obviously, I only did 18 miles on Saturday too.  Feeling positive again now!  

  • HeOw, sounds like an amazing run! Especially the 'accidental' LT mile...

    I had the same thing with the wind this morning; was howling outside my window but just felt refreshing when outside.

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