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Thanks PS.
Sean - if it was a training run I would have told her exactly what I thought of her too ! My water strategy went completely out the window at the race, in fact it didn't even start. During my training, I have been sipping on water every couple of minutes, whether I felt thirsty or night. On the 20 milers I was using my Camelback which made it easy to do. At the race yesterday, I only had a water bottle belt. My plan was to ignore the first water station (about 2.5 miles) and just use my bottle until the second station (about 5 miles) and refill my bottle. As it turned out I didn't use my water bottle once. I started taking 1 water pouch at the second station but would probably only drink half of it (not sure how much each pouch contained). As each mile went by I wanted more water so by half way I reckon I was drinking all of a pouch. Then it was warming up so I started to pick up 2 pouches, one to drink one to pour over my head. I then started drinking more and more and fortunately the water stations were very frequent towards the end, I would say every 1.5 miles. So, in answer to your question I would say I drank at least twice as much on the second half compared to the first, if not more. To be honest, I felt like I could have drunk even more as well. I think you should check out the frequency of water stations for your marathon and also how you will get the water e.g. cup, bottle, pouch. Next time up, I don't think I will be carrying a water bottle belt and just use the the water stations.
Regarding the water strategy I think I got it pretty right for me yesterday after getting it quite wrong on both previous marathons. First marathon I think I took on too much, made me feel heavy and bloated, second marathon I thought about it much more and planned to take on water every other mile but not too much, by mile 18 I think I was gasping for the next station each mile and had serious issues with the heat. Yesterday I decided to pretty much play it on how I felt but stuck to my rough plan to take it most times offered drink what I needed, pour a little over my neck if required which meant I rarely had more than half of each pouch even after some going over my head. I also made use of the carb drinks available on 3-4 occasions (can't remember how many now!) but a would carry these with me for a number of miles to sip (I find them too sickly to drink quickly but think you need at least half the bottle to get the benefits) ofter I would take a water have a couple of sips but keep going with a carb drink in my other hand.
Like you Carter, I'm now thinking about where next, I am sure a sub 3.40 is well within my ability but right now I can't wait to get back to 10k and half mara races. As amazing as yesterday was, I've simply not been able to enjoy my training this year, combinations of having two kids, more responsibility at work taking up much more time, and if I'm honest I think the wrong training plan have all taken their toll on me this year. Originally I had planned to run Abingdon mara in oct but now I've promised the wife I won't train for another mara until summer next year. Tiny bit tempted to enter Milton Keynes in four weeks but to be honest it would simply be for the sake of having another marathon under my belt. Not sure right now I want to put myself through that, don't know if I'd have the mental strength to keep going without a specific target.
Andrew - I don't know about you but I don't think I would be able to give it my all in a marathon in 4 weeks time. I pushed to the limit yesterday and that's how I race so I think I will need a few weeks easy running again before I think about giving it another shot. But, this was my first marathon so I don't know how I'm going to react in the next few weeks, all part of the learning process I guess.
And don't worry about your race report, it's more to do with me having plenty to say for myself !!!
Its just running past members of the 100 marathon club in brighton gives me silly ideas. Incidentally I did speak to one of these guys and asked if he really had ran over 100 to which he replied 'oh yes, and they don't get any bloody easier!'
HI Carter, Well done, really pleased for you on the Marathon and good time! We expected an epic report as it has been an epic journey
Enjoy the rest now!
Hi Andrew, Great to hear from you again and well done on the marathon and good time! Really pleased for you matie
Another marathon in 4 weeks? Maybe review how the body is at the end of a weeks or so eh?
Ali, For God's sake don't forget to charge your watch before the marathon
I ran an easier one yesterday, the Tay Ten. It was a pretty flat course. There were two points which slowed me down. 1. was 5th and 6th mile, when we were running on track and it was pretty muddy. 2. was mile 9 and 10 when coming back there was a pretty strong side wind.
The course left Perth Grammar school running track and the across through the park onto the path/trail that runs along the Tay. Mile 7&8 was onto the road looping back on to the path ending back on the running track.
Splits: 6:27,6:41,6:39,6:42,6:58,7:06,6:44,6:46,6:56,0:37?
Official Time: 1:08:39
Felt a bit tired from the week, as discussed earlier I think I went a bit too hard in the week schedules (I think it was the Wed session). Ran the 10 and then planned to run a few after, ditched this in the end and just went back to the sports centre where my daughter was at a gymnastics competition. Just rested today and then back to the hill reps tomorrow.
Well done on the 10k Sean, looking forward to hearing your report next week
I have a good idea what you would have said to Carters woman friend!
Wow - come on here for a quick catch up and I have a few epic novels to read.
Back later when I have read everything.
My preparations for London continued today with a sports massage after work. I never thought a massage could hurt so bleedin' much. Apart from some tightness in my left calf and left hamstring and inside right thigh above my knee, she found some other interesting places to poke and knead that had me wondering why I thought this was a good idea. But she did say that overall I was in pretty good order and seemed to be in good shape. Recommended that I have a hot bath tonight to ease the tender areas.
Great reports Andrew & Carter.
Carter an absolute text book run - a 5 min neg split eh? Impressive & inspirational stuff sir - well & truly nailed. Delighted for you after all your trials & tribulations over the last 15 months or so.
Fast 10 there Nell - good stuff!
Sean great 10k time on what was a tough sounding XCesque course - you will smash VLM on Sunday I have no doubt!
Sorry confusing splits: Splits: 6:27,6:41,6:39,6:42,6:58,7:06,6:44,6:46,6:56,6:56,0:37?
Sounding good Carl, hot bath...interesting. More bearable than a cold one!
Well guys epic writing here. So enjoyable!
First off Carter a huge well done. Loved reading your report. Nearly brought tears to my eyes. OK I'll admit it it DID bring tears to my eyes. I just love that marathon finish feeling. You can now see why they become addictive. Why after my disastrous time at London last year I was immediately planning Loch Ness to right the wrongs. There is something magical and transforming about a marathon that goes to plan. And yours did. Epic. Oh but I'll tell you what. Anyone like that lady who picks a petty fight with me on a marathon day will get a not so quiet 'f**k off'. Fancy being that far into a life changing race and choosing that time to pick a squabble over thin air. Get a life.
Andrew- really FANTASTIC result for you too and a huge PB for you! So chuffed for you and you really did everything right. Wisely and well played, and don't make that decision yet about the marathon in four weeks time... take a few days down time first.
Sean- nice 10k report and I was very glad to hear of your chafed nethers- NOT. Thanks
And last but not least Nell another stormer of a race proving you are the speed demon of the thread.
This is a really exciting time for our wee thread.
Well my legs today felt knackered after 42.5 miles last week which was one of my biggest weeks in a long long time and I know some of you guys do more regularly but that's pretty epic for me. So today a well deserved rest and chill out, and my partner is away visiting family so I have the house to myself which gives me a bit of peace and quiet.
Morning all, thanks for all the kind words.
I'm feeling ok this morning, not much aching but feeling generally tired (probably due to the amount of food and drink I've consumed the last couple of days). No real problems going up and down stairs either. I would be tempted to go for a little trot this evening if it wasn't for the fact I'm off to watch Forest. Will see how I feel tomorrow and may try and get out then. Now looking forward to a few weeks of just going out to run with no set goal for the session.
All thoughts turn to London.....
Similar to you today Carter, feelong a little bloated and tired after all the food consumed, but planing a gentle 3-4 mile this evening to loosen the muscles that are still a little tight. I've been very lucky so far, 3marathons and my recovery has always been very straight foreward in terms of muscles hurting. Unlike my poor brother and sister in law who ran London A number of years back and if I remember rightly they had to go up and down stairs on their bums for a couple of days!
Carter, I assume after Sunday that you would reccomend Manchester as a good marathon? I'm trying to come up with a list of 'must do' marathons and runs to put to my wife. I think she will agree to something like that much easier than a specific number.
with that in mind good people, I'm interested to know what your most recommended races are (specifically marathons or very good halfs unless they are close to Oxfordshire... I need to justify any travel) so far I have;
Abingdon, (flat, fat and 3 miles from home)
one or more of Paris, Berlin or Amsterdam
One or both of Beachyhead or Snowdonia
The French one with all the wine and excellent food (can't remember the name but begins with M I think) in fact if any fellow forum posters wanted to do a group one year for this I would be interested
oh and London again of course!
Hi PS, Missed you earlier, how is the training going, are you feeling good? I think it was London you were running?
Hi Ali, So with your partner away you can get in some more miles this week?
Hi Andrew, The marathon du medoc will be the wine marathon you are thinking of I think. It was featured in the magazine last year was it not? Not sure whether I would make it past the first stop! My wine raised her eyebrows at that marathon, being a wine lover she thought it was a great idea! Would be a good autumn one, I think it is in the autumn??
Edinburgh Andrew, pretty flat and good if the east coast wind is not up ;0)
Hi Carter, watch the ITB when coming back.
Hill reps for me this morning, 6 miles nice bright sunny morning ;0)
Andrew - Dublin for the 'craic' and I'll let you know about Berlin in 6 months from now!
Phew! - tonight was my first tempo run in anger since before Dublin last year ... had forgotten how hard work they are but how you feel great having done them!
Ran 6 miles in 45:33 with first mile warm up then 5 @ tempo - although they did creep progressively faster ... Finished off with a slow mile of jogging to flush the muscles out and make it a 7 mile session. Quite pleased with splits:
8:51 w/u , 7:36; 7:29; 7:27, 7:13, 6:52, 9:45 c/d
Good to get back into these kind of sessions
Yes Nell whilst the cat's away the mouse (me) will play... at the gym and out running! Today I actually did quite a long gym sesh. Main reason being I didn't want to do much running as I seem to have blistered my feet after Sunday's long run. Odd that- just wearing my normal trainers and they've always fitted like a glove before!!! So anyway tonight I did a little running but mostly a good strength workout and it was really enjoyable. I was there for about 1.5 hours... longer than I ever get normally so that was a treat. Tomorrow meeting a friend to go running after work. 6 miles or so.
Away at a wedding this weekend so 'lengthening' the running week to include Monday... and will be doing my next long run then! Looking forward to it given how well Sunday's went.
Andrew- the wine marathon sounds like a hoot to me. I've always fancied it and it's always around my birthday... tempting way to celebrate...
Ricky- sounds like you're getting on well now. No signs of injury?
Ali - seems to be tightness in the glutes (pain in the ar*se) that has been the source of discomfort rather than an injury as such. More running seems to be helping run the'tightness' out if that makes sense?! Riight glute was pain free for the first time in months this evening & just slight discomfort in the left - fingers crossed!
In the market for new shoes - brooks adrenaline & mizuno wave inspire that I alternate are both way over mileage. I prefer the mizunos - lighter and more cushioned however on the longer runs feel they could be more supportive. Thinking of going back to Asics Kayano (19s or 20s) or maybe try a pair of Nikes but confused at their vast range! What does everyone run in & what are your experiences of different brands etc?
So ... London's calling - how are all the VLM'rs feeling?
In terms of running shoes Ricky I used to always be a New Balance loyal but have recently also got into the Saucony Kinvara.
NB 890 is a great NB light weight shoe but still with decent cushioning and probably the comfiest shoe I've ever had.
Saucony Kinvara is similarly lightweight but with a lower drop and though that took me a while to get used to I love it now.
Had my hot bath last night and never came back online.
So where to start.
Carter - what an amazing story. You nailed it big time. You were calm the week coming into it and it showed. You had a plan. You stuck with it but when you knew you were running much stronger you pushed on and what a result for a first marathon. After all the trials and tribulations since you started your marathon journey to finish in itself would have been a great achievemnt. But you smashed it. Really proud of you and must work out how to take some inspiration from you forward to this weekend.
I would take it easy this week as most people suggest complete rest for at least a week before starting again.
Andrew - what a great run from you too. I can empathise with being busy at work. I have never been so busy and getting the training in has been a hugh effort. So to have coped with that, missed some of your training but still nailed it on the day is fantastic. Just think what you could acieve if you can dedicate a little more time to preparing for race day.
Thinking of another marathon in 4 weeks. If you do it good on you.
Sean - I don't know how you manage to keep knocking the races out this close to London. Sounds like you enjoyed the XC and looks as if you are in great shape for the weekend.
There is water every mile in London so there will be no problem getting enough. I would suggest a little every time particularly if it is going to be warm.
Nell - another sprint from you at the weekend. I don't know how you keep doing this and this with you being a tad tired too. You keep this up and you will be running super quick at Edinburgh. Well done you again.
Ali - 42.5 miles !! Great running. How many weeks left for you and have you got any more HM's planned before Edinburgh ?
Ricky - great tempo run from you. Great to see you back in the saddle. tempo runs are tough but very rewarding.
Running shoes. I have tried Nike and Addidas in the past but when I had my ankle issues last year I switched to Mizuno Wave Inspire. I am now on my second pair of these and teh third pair is in a box waiting to be called into service. These are very light and fit well and I am happy that I get enough support from them. So no plans from me to change anytime soon.
Ali - sounds like you ahev your week planned out.
So my last track session tonight. 12 x 200m at something like 5k pace.
Got this in before they turned out the lights which was nice for a change.
1 mile w/u @ 8:45 m/m and 1 mile c/d @ 9:42 m/m
Splits for 200m intervals as follows :
0:46 ; 0:45 ; 0:45 ; 0:44 ; 0:44 ; 0:44
0:45 ; 0:44 ; 0:45 ; 0:46 ; 0:43 ; 0:42
I was holding back and did not really push myself too hard as I was wary of pulling a muscle so close to the big day.
Have a 4 miler planned for tomorrow and a 3 miler on Thursday. Both of these willl be at about 9 m/m.
Will probably do 2 miles on Saturday to keep the legs ticking over and throw in some MP strides for good measure.
Ricky - re your question on how the VLM'rs feeling.
Not sure if I am perfectly honest. I am having all the doubts you can imagine. I have trained well. I am injury free. I am busy at work so am not as relaxed as I would like to be. I have an A goal which is 3:30 or a tad under. But my PB is 3:58. So this is a massive step up in real time performance as the training runs are irrelevant on race morning. I need to think through my strategy but need to have my Plan B clear in my mind if for some reason my Plan A is not working. I have a few marathons under my belt but I never thought so much about the previous ones. Can I hang on to the pace needed for 3:30. Not sure. How much of a negative split to I plan for. Is this a sensible approach. Who the hell knows.
I am hoping that when I go to the Expo on Thursday taht it will all become much clearer and that I will be able to focus on it.
Andrew - carb loading is rubbish, watch out for the wind too !! Manchester is a very flat, fast course so ideal for a PB attempt, if the weather is ok. The crowd support was amazing and the marshals were great. You are only a few minutes away from the Trafford Centre so the family could wander over there if required. I would definitely recommend it.
Nell - I haven't felt any issues whatsoever with the ITB following Sunday. Hopefully, I can continue to manage the situation. Sorry, but I've not really been registering what's happening with everyone else on here the last few days (been in my own little world), how is your training going ? How long to Edinburgh ?
Ali - I have the effect of being able to make the ladies cry..haha !! Glad to see the mileage increasing nicely for you. Any ideas of a time yet for Edinburgh ?
Ricky - it's about time you got your ar#e sorted !! You've still got plenty of speed in those legs after a long time of not running fast. Have you got anymore races planned between now and Berlin ?
Carl - you have consistently produced strong training runs since this thread started. I went into Manchester with one goal in mind, I didn't have B or C goals despite a lot of people saying I should. I think this approach might be best for you too. You sound to me like the type of bloke who would achieve one target/goal if your mind was set on it. You will be rested following your taper and you know you don't have to run for a few days after the race so why not go chasing for that 3:30. I believe you could achieve this 3:30 if you really want it and you go for it. It's back to that question that seems to get asked a lot, are you prepared to go all out to achieve your target and risk failing ? Or do you just go for a new PB of 3:40 which you would easily achieve ? Decisions, decisions eh mate. I, for one, think you will achieve whichever of those targets you go for.
So, the legs are feeling pretty good although I'm still feeling a bit tired, actually I'm feeling very tired as it was a late night last night going to watch Forest. I've got my running stuff with me today so think I will attempt a very easy,gentle couple of miles just to turn the legs over. I seemed to have recovered remarkably quickly so it does sort of leave me with a feeling of I might have had some more in the tank for a better time on Sunday ? I also need to start looking at which marathon I'm running in the Autumn....
Carl
You love a good track session you do. I've enjoyed the 2 or 3 ive done whilst training for VLM, so I will definitely make a conscious effort to keep it going after. Similar to you my previous marathon PB is 3:56 at York last year, and I too am looking to lop a good 20 - 30 minutes off this at London. I feel we have both trained hard enough for it, put in the miles, sacrificed many Sunday Mornings and have put ourselves in the best possible position to achieve our goals. If we don't do it on the day; Then hey-ho, we just dust ourselves off and plan the next race, as its all about the running, and that's what we love.
*Motivational speech out of the way
Ricky: I have recently converted to Adidas after a lifetime of Nike loyalty. First I went with Adidas Adizero and I ran fast, then I got a pair of these new fangled boosts and I ran slightly faster, then I purchased a pair of Adidas adizero boost and I run like the clappers.
Seriously though, I was quite skeptical about this boost technology, but they work and the proof is in the pudding I guess, as I managed to shave 1:20 off my 5K parkrun PB at the first time of wearing them, which is a pretty huge margin for that distance. And yes, I now own 3 pairs of adidas. Love em.
Incidentally speaking of adidas' someone at my running club was in New York over Christmas and they saw these adidas running shoes on sale that effectively had springs on the bottom. I think they were called springblades and they might to coming to a shop near you soon. I think these shoes might send the barefoot / minimilist runners into cardiac arrest and foaming. ha ha
Anyway. Did some moderate reverse squats, bar work and a bit of spinning in the gym yesterday. Going back at lunch for some core and cross training, then might go out for a 4 mile trot along the canal tomorrow.
VLM is all that i'm thinking about at the moment, but after 6 years of rejection slips i'm kinda thinking that this is the year I actually would have loved to watched it on TV. The line-up is stellar and I think there are something like 7 sub 2:05 PB runners lining up at the start line. Its sure to be a classic race and I might have a sneaky fiver on Geoffrey Mutai to win, and Mo to break Steve Jones British record. You heard it here first folks.
Hi all - sorry I haven't been on for a few days. I had a couple of days off of work, sold the Caterham, had to put a pet down and start having a clear out of "stuff" so it's been fairly eventful/tiring. Also, I'm still not running due to this injury, which is doing my head in
Carter - I know I'm late but it was great to read your marathon report. You must be over the moon with that and it looks like you paced it perfectly which is brilliant. It's hard holding back in the first few miles, but I think that is the way to go.
Andrew - I know a few people in the 100 Marathon Club and they are slightly bonkers (they tend to know and accept this
). In the height of the season they seem to think nothing of doing a marathon on one weekend followed by an ultra the weekend after. Be warned
Carl, I've ran 3 marathons so far and my times have dropped by 30mins from 1st to second and by 14mins from 2nd to 3rd. I would say it depends on how much more you feel you are capable of. Based on your training times I see no reason why you can't push for that kind of improvement to your time. I had horrific build up to my first so knew I was capable of much quicker, my second I ran slightly injured but feeling ok but missed out on sub 4 and felt with a little better prep I could break that. next time I will look for sub 3:40 so only 7.5 mins to find but with slightly more focussed training I know I can do it. 3:30? Time will tell!
Wind Carter? I don't know what you mean, I keep blaming the kids but the wife is having none of it haha
Ricky, re. Trainers, I swear by Asics, specifically the gel Nimbus range. But to be honest I've tried little else, not the sort of thing I want to experiment with when I have a brand that works for me considering the cost. Getting some new ones for my bday in a month.
3 easy miles at a very gentle 10 min miles. No niggles, no pains, no aches and everything appears to be in working order. Why am I feeling so good so soon after the race ??
Some stats from the race:
I finished 1417 overall out of 5907 finishers, that's in the top 24%.
In my age category I finished 156 out of 579, in the top 27%.
Men only I finished 1282 out of 4320, in the top 30%
The average time for all finishers was 4:10 and for my age category it was 4:05.
There was one man over 80 who finished in 5:18 and a woman in 5:34, how impressive is that ?
Hi Ali, Enjoy the freedom ;0)
Hi Ricky, I cannot see past Saucony Kinvaras at the moment, alternating two pairs at the moment and have my marathon ones ready to break in
Hi Carl, Another good session. You're training has been great and consistent even though you have to run at silly o'clock. I was telling my wife about your times of training, although she held admiration for your dedication she thinks of you as me....slightly unhinged !
Hi Big_G, Things get crazy from here on!
Hi Andrew/Carter, Glad to hear you are both doing fine after your marathons...training is going well Carter, just knocking out the sessions at the moment.
Hi Sean, Probably best to stay away from the gym now. Saying that, your training is so unconventional I don't know what advise to give you
7 miles this morning at 7:45mm, nice and windy again!