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HADD Training Method
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Txs VT
I try to run with just the HR on view, I try to guess what it is before peeking and usually almost spot on so am getting a feel for effort. Right now your paces would look ok for me if they were k's not miles
5 miles barefoot sounds hard core! Roy, 10k was the total barefoot distance, it was 11 runs not 1 but am up to a mile now. I've tried most surfaces bur have the biggest problem with those ickle sharp stones on trails and the main road. Oh, and today did a mile lapping the field in front of the house, it's full if those pesky thistle shoots!
Hi - I am jumping back into this thread, having visited it about 2 years ago, for a spell. I have run about 9 marathons, and a few ultras, recently the Glas Edin- I'm not fast, best ever marathon just scraped under 4hrs, and more recently they tend to be 4:15.
I am a 49yr old female. I just bought a MIO Link HR monitor ( wrist, not chest strap)
Ran 5k PB st park run yesterday- 24:06, max HR 188.(I will take that as my Max HR for now)
Did a 10 mile run today to see whether there is much drift at 137, which is about 73% MHR for me.
THe results
1) 0.62m - 6:15(10:04/m) 137/144bpm 62cal
2) 0.62m - 6:28(10:26/m) 135/138bpm 61cal
3) 0.62m - 6:39(10:43/m) 136/141bpm 62cal
4) 0.62m - 6:51(11:02/m) 135/139bpm 62cal
5) 0.62m - 6:50(11:01/m) 135/138bpm 62cal
6) 0.62m - 6:53(11:07/m) 135/140bpm 63cal
7) 0.62m - 6:41(10:46/m) 136/140bpm 62cal
8) 0.62m - 7:07(11:28/m) 136/141bpm 62cal
9) 0.62m - 7:08(11:31/m) 136/139bpm 62cal
10) 0.62m - 7:08(11:30/m) 135/138bpm 62cal
11) 0.62m - 6:44(10:51/m) 136/140bpm 63cal
12) 0.62m - 6:43(10:50/m) 137/140bpm 62cal
13) 0.62m - 6:48(10:57/m) 136/142bpm 62cal
14) 0.62m - 6:49(11:00/m) 136/140bpm 62cal
15) 0.62m - 6:51(11:02/m) 137/140bpm 62cal
I am happy enough with that. It exactly tallie with 5k pace + 3 mins too, and the lack of drift meand that my recent ultra trainig has given me a reasonable base, so I think I can include some ILTR runs as well.
Would you start adding 80% MHR runs at this stagae, and how much?
I suppose the above question is easier to answer if you know more about my current training- I have never managed to stick to a plan, I have dabbled with P&D recently, but can't do even the lowest mileage plan- it wrecks me.
For my ultra ( a month ago) I did : weekend long run building up to 20 miles, very slow- run/ walknig at ave about 9kph. Max 1 faster session per week- usually treadmill- based intervals of about 800m at approx 13klph ( I have no idea what my HR was at that pace, but I can bet it is not pretty!).
1 Spin session per week where I all - but kill myself ( must take HRM to next week's- could be interesting!).
A couple of 11mile slow runs some week mid- week home from work in the evening, returning to work the next day ( I can leave car at work this way). OTherwise, just a 2 hour run 1 moring, and a tready session- at recovery pace, for however long I can stad ( not very long due to boredom).
It's a bit random, mileage never very high. I hope thaht if I go with a HADD approach, I can at least know what pace the different runs should be at, as there is a tendency to do them all at the same sort of pace.
My next target race is a 42- mile ultra in Sept, but I'd like to put in a decent showing at Strathearn marathon in july.
20 miler done and nothing fell off!
I've never completed a full training plan without losing major time to injury. Knock on wood I survive next week's 10K w/out a twisted ankle, etc.
Stats for today's run are below. I tried to keep it from being a killer. My paces were pretty good today for low effort. I tried to gradually build effort from 10 - 20 and did fairly well until last two miles but felt good so figured I'd go a bit.
Roy, not exactly sure about my pacing/effort. In my last marathon I stuck to 78% effort miles 1-6, 80-81% miles 7-14, 82-84% miles 15-19, 85-86% 20-24, and 88-93% final miles. Based on the way things have gone lately, I may shoot to match that effort range as it worked out and I'm much more fit this time around. I'm hoping I can go out at around 7:15/m and see how that feels. There are about 5 good hills in the first 15 miles, then it's flat/down to the finish. So if I can keep a lid on things until mile 16, could be poised to make a shift in pace to end if lots of gas left in the tank. Overall goal is to run 3:15 or better (need 7:26/m to do this). Biggest unknown will be the heat. We are still in very cool weather and I suspect it will be hot (just) on race day. Am sweating about my lack of opportunity to acclimate!
OH- and 1 last thing about me..........
These are the WAVA's for my PB's from 5k to marathon
5 km pb 24:06 WAVA 68.72
10 km pb 47:55 WAVA 67.33
13.1 miles1:46:19 WAVA 65.86
26.2 miles 3:55:13 WAVA 64.22
Which I guess proves that I desperately need to improve my aerobic engine!
Hope the formatting works.
Tricialitt. I suspect your aerobic base /running economy is not Your weak point. I actually wonder whether your basic conditioning and power might be out of kilter versus the mileage and impact stresses that you want to step up to.
I'm only basing that on the absence of any (for example) hill work or circuit/weight training.
im not saying you need to become a soviet era shot putter you understand.
You might be right- I tried running up a hill 2 weeks ago and it nearly killed me! I was training for a very flat ultra until recently, so did almost all my running along the canal. I am going to add a bit of hill work, but presumably that has to be incorporated into the sub- LT sessions, as the slightest incline will put me immediately over the 73%, and into walking mode!
Any advice re: hill sessions?
I've tended towards weights rather than hills myself - it's a matter of personal preference though. Both try to address the same issue. If you have more raw power in you legs, ypud expect them to combine better with your cardio system to give you the speed you want.
the strength and conditioning aspect also puts you in a better place to deal with the increased stresses on your body due to higher speed and bigger mileage.
Tricia I'd give the hills a miss until you've done a fair few weeks of 75%/5k +3. What you'll find is your HR will drop, allowing you to incorporate an undulating course without spiking too much over 75%. There is no mention of hill reps etc. in Hadd - it's all about getting your HR down and staying down - although, as SPBM says, weights, squats, plyometric jumps etc. are always helpful.
I think, given your Ultra training, you can throw in a subLT fairly quickly - I posted a suggested build-up on the last page, from the can.milesplit link on Dr Dan's OP.
VT I've been following your subLT progression with keen interest - those, plus that last 20 miler, make me sure that a sub 3:15 is coming up, with gas to spare.
I finished my cut-back week yesterday at 6h37, 44.0m at 9:02mm av. and av. HR 70%max. SubLT tomorrow of 2 x 5m tomorrow.
Yes, thanks- I saw the guide to introducing the sub LT after I'd asked the daft question! That will teach me to read back more carefuly.
It will be interesting to see how it goes.............I don't really know if I'm properly recovered after the ultra, so might take it gently for a couple more weeks, -felt pretty wrecked this moring after my weekend of 5k PB, folowed by 10miles at easy pace.
Do you gave access to a coach or physio? Wouldn't hurt to get the view of someone in the flesh so to speak.
Strength work is something to build in well away from race prep. Sort of laying foundations.
Well my twisted ankle from a month ago has been stubborn and refused to heal fully until now (flared up again after my previous runs) but should be good to tentatively start off again tonight and will just run every other day until I am confident I won't have any more issues.
Will go at 5k + 3 for now (about 10.45) and hopefully in a few weeks this will come down a little bit and I can run to HR.
Yiddarmy sorry to hear you're suffering on both legs
Cleanshoes good luck with the ankle - keep plugging at the easy pace
Well the subLT didn't turn out very well - 2 lots of 5 miles at 80%. I've not started this low before, and was drifting up to 82% on both - paces fairly level at 8:10 and 8:16mm.
I think I need to dump the emotional attachment to being close to last October's marathon pace and just let the HR settle...so a slower run planned for Friday's subLT (7m straight).
Tek, yes, it can certainly be hard to be at max fitness and then find yourself looking up the hill again. But I think you have the right idea to just lock in on effort and don't worry about pace. You know it'll come around soon. Plus you feel more controlled during those runs. Personally, I'm about subLT'd out.
Today went out for my first taper subLT...ended up doing 9.5 miles with 6 at 6:47/m ave and HR ave of 162 (~82%). Pace was good but had to work hard to hold it. This was a harder course and lots of wind didn't help, but my legs were just not recovered from last week. Was going to do 7 at pace, but decided to be conservative. Now, lots of carbs and rest before the 10K Saturday. Maybe 8M tomorrow and 6 Thurs (at 70% or less for both), Friday off and hopefully relatively recovered come Saturday.
Cleanshoes and Yidd, hope you guys get better soon.
Random event of my day: had a moose sprint by me during my run. Right through the middle of campus. Almost as surprising as the day I saw a roadrunner spring across the road...then about 5 seconds later a coyote went barreling by in pursuit. Strange days...
We haven't had a weight roll call for a while, but last week I stepped back on the scale after ignoring weight for a while now. Surprisingly I have dropped about 6 lbs. I think I started at around 177 lbs...then got down to about 171 or so and couldn't seem to get lower. Now I've been sitting around 165 consistently. Perhaps some of my increased pace is down to weight. Anyway, nice to be slimmed down.
Hope the injuries clear up soon Cleanshoes and Yiddarmy.
Tried to do the 2.4 km at different % HR's today at the gym..............more difficult to get ( and stay) at the precise HR than I expected- It seemed more like a steady drift, rather than a stable HR for each speed- probably becuase the gym is so warm- maybe I'll try it outside next time.
Thanks for the welcome, I will be interested to see how the stats change with training.
Tek - I know all about that emotional attachment to previous training paces! Been there a few times myself. Sounds like you're doing the right thing though.
VT - I reckon you are in great shape now! And 12 lb lower than Xmas is fantastic! And talk of moose and coyote run-encounters is not something you often hear on a UK forum!
Tric - yep, gyms are not so good for stable HRs unless you can keep cool.
YIDD - good progress! One step back - two forward!
After my un-wise sub-20 5K (6 days post marathon) I felt a bit creaky, so resumed my planned 2 week rest .... and then when that was done, I went for a 6.5M run. I went a bit too fast but felt fit and strong ... but by the end my calf felt a bit tight. Tested it next day with a 1.5M run and it wasn't too good. So I've just had 9 more days of rest (apart from 6 x 5M on the bike and 800m front crawl in the pool
). Missed my 5K race but test ran yesterday (4.4M) and it seemed ok ... I will test it out again today and decide whether to run the Leeds HM on Sunday.
Oh, I can't blame P&D, it really wasn't that harsh ... it's all down to the silly 5K.
Yidd, nice running. Seems like something is working (underwear or whatever
). Looking forward to hearing about a few more steps forward in the coming weeks.
DD, I worried about that race you did!
But glad to hear that the calf is doing better. Easy does it working back up. Hopefully the rest after the 5K has helped stitch things back to good. I'm still very impressed you could put that speed together 6 days after a marathon (I'm still feeling like I have to learn how to make my legs run again at that point!).
Have slowly decreased effort the past two days (8 and 4.5 miles). Today is a rest day and tomorrow is the 10K. Honestly I still feel pretty tired. Will be interesting to see how I respond. But not sweating it as I still have a good 2 weeks to recover. The race is mainly to help make MP feel a bit less taxing and get my last fitness boost in.
Sorry I've been AWOL - plenty to catch up on here!
Welcome Tricia! I'm a bit like you as hills are not my friend either - even less a friend of HADD but persevere
(and don't read the rest of my post lol).
VT, all the best for tomorrow!!
Will try and read back to catch up on all your activities folks.
Me? well, have run out of beer tokens so had to get a part time job - Packing a Distribution of Isle of Mull Scallops (no fishy comments please).
As for HADD I'm in a quandary right now, I'm hoping it's because Lochaber is still only 5 weeks past but I'm struggling on all my runs right now. For instance, was a 7 miler today with 3 @ 80%(sublt) but gave up after the first mile as I was out of puff. I ended up trying to do 1/2 miles @80% then 1/2 getting down to 70% but it just stayed high - my fastest 1/2 was all down hill at a pace of 8:07 then back up was easy and pace was 11:16mm. Sounds good until I look at my AHR's - 80% downhill and 80% up and was 3 mins/mile slower! Admittedly my Garmin suggests the incline/decline was 200ft for the 1/2 mile but expected better.
I'm considering semi-de-camping from HADD after almost 11 months and just running for running's sake and not get overly obsessive with pace/AHR.
Andi, your next run might be the one where it all comes together, don't lose heart now, as you have said many times " it takes time ".
PR this morning best time of the year, but forgot to set my Garmin, so no info.
Afternoon spent on the rowing machine,
Looking at 18ish miles tomorrow, at 70%MHR
VT congrats on the weight loss - how did the 10k go?
Tricia like Dr Dan said - it's too hot inside a gym to get reliable HR readings
Yiddarmy nice running, hope you shake off those niggles soon
Dr Dan healing vibes for that calf
Andi it takes me at least 2 months of "shit phase" to recover from a marathon. Then I get a period of rapid improvements (back to where I was), and then it's usually a race to see if I can get much net gain before the next marathon looms!
Roy nice PR - hope the Long run went ok today.
Second subLT of the week was even worse than expected - a straight 7 miler at last October's MP+30" to stick just above 80%.
Week's stats: 58.5m in 8h40, 8:54mm avg. and avg.HR 74%max.
Teknik,
thanks 18.66 miles at ave bpm of 106 = 66% of MHR, pace of 9.33mm.
2x sub LT runs per week, means too me you are preparing for a big race ?
VT how did the 10k go ?