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Sub 3 hour London Marathon 2014 VLM
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Craig, depends really. Some sort of tempo. Generally I would do 90mins incl 70mins at ~ MP. Ends up being 12miles+ with 10miles+ at MP. Shorter versions are 7-9 miles incl 4 or 5 miles at HMP.
In base training I would do the 70min section at 80% of HRmax, this would equate to MP + 15-30s. The long tempo session is an integral part of any distance training.
It depends on the length of the run, what shift I'm working and whether the kids are at school or not.
I'm working a day shift on Sunday and have 21mi to do, so I need to be on the road for 05:30.
Just how hard you run the mid-week longish/tempo type run depends on how the rest of the training week is structured. I've previously been used to doing all, or nearly all, of my MP training during the week, and keeping the Sunday run all easy pace. Last time out, I did manage to fit in a couple of harder LRs (biggest effort being 24 incl. 7M @ MP), but still considered the Thursday run to be a big key run. Like Brian I'd mix up different length tempo runs essentially, including HM pace for 4-6 miles, but every other week through Jan / Feb / March I did a full-on MP run, starting at 10 miles and gradually building up to 13 miles (ok, 13.1 so that I had a HM time!) @ MP... plus my max MP effort which was 15M @ MP during the Finchley 20.
If you intend doing a few weekend long runs with some quality in (progressive, or solid chunks @ MP), then obviously you need to balance just how much faster running you do for the mid-week effort.
Totally agree with this. Pre-marathon schedule, I was used to getting the tempo run up to 10 miles every few weeks or so anyway, so it was easier to transition to the longer MP runs when necessary. Marathon pace is a very useful training pace for dealing with the speed endurance required for 10k/HM distance, I think.
I've been running too slow and need to pick the pace up. Last year i was running my 10/12m mid week runs at about 7:30-7:50 min miles and keeping it comfortable with a comfortable long run at the weekend and realised now that i never pushed myself. Running todays 10m at 5m 6:40 and 5m 7:20 felt hard but OK. I'm confident that after a few of these I will beat my HM time.
But will it be enough for sub 3 marathon?
It's just head down and keep getting the key sessions/paces in Wenty that's all we can do then go for it on the day.
I've been a bit slack on pace as well as have been doing more longer runs. Did a 6m faster effort today at about 6:45. Felt harder but could have easily had a conversation so probably not as bad as I think. Thames trot 50mi on 1st Feb then I really need to get training paces up.
Like everyone else it is a good sign when the average pace on the long runs starts creeping down
they have to more than creep down for me - more like nose dive!
50mi!!! is that going to help or hinder marathon training?
It will help me greatly but then I normally do a few ultras per year. I know 2-3 weeks after I will see a huge improvement in fitness and endurance. Then I can just concentrate on getting faster. A plus with doing ultras is that a marathon doesn't seem that far and the question of not making it never enters my head - just what time I'll finish in!
My fitness test before London will be the Grizzly in March, if I can get around 2:50 for that I will know sub 3 is still on (only 20mi but v hilly and muddy)
Wenty - as a guide the first time I did sub 3 my weekly average training pace was coming out at about 7:30. Actually, with my "one gear" it didn't make much difference whether that was a short or long run they generally all came out the same!!!
Just noticed that my 26.2 training run that year was bang on 7:30 pace (3:16:40) - spooky!!!
Thats Intersting to hear One Gear. Its really interesting how people are training at such differnt paces from 6:00 to almost 8:00 min miles. I would say that my confortable running pace is currently around 7:30. I have barcelona marathon in march which i am trating as a training run and may try and run this at 7:30.
Was your 26.2 training run a steady 7:30 or speed up / tail off. My plan was to run first 20 quicker and then tail off in the last 6 miles to protect myself from too much harm.
I use an Alpkit Gamma - great bit of kit.
Considering a 0345 START on Sunday to complete 2:15 before 6Am when wife goes to work. Not sure it's sensible but I could do with trying it this week before the next 11! Also poor weather planned for Sun PM so it should be win/win.
https://totriornottotri.wordpress.com
That sounds grim Toro. Fair play!
Also going all out for sub 3 at London this year, some very interesting posts so far. Planning on a relatively low mileage strategy (30 - 45 mile week range). Just don't have the time for any more with new job, new baby, etc.
Been bashing out 15 mile long runs over the last 2 weeks with mid 5 at M.P. (6.45) with quality mid week short sessions. Have Brighton half coming up, aiming for around 1:23 mark.
My main worry is getting off to a good start with all the crowds. Going off from the blue start and am hopefully in a decent pen (target time of 2:59). Anyone got any tips for getting ahead of the crowds?
Nothing to worry about really. You should be starting in pen 1, off the blue start this means you'll be into a gentle jog as you cross the line and into your running (albeit in a crowded space) within the first few hundred yards. Your first mile might be a bit slow but you'll more than make that up by 3-4 miles as you head slightly downhill into Woolwich.
Marky - I have brighton half coming up and using that as a guide for my sub 3 possibiities. Its a good half Brighton! 1:23 is impressive on such a low miles per week - but i guess its all about quality.
Hi Wenty, it was run pretty much at a steady speed in the range 7:20 to 7:40. It is a relatively undulating/hilly route so the odd mile outside that was due to the hills.
Finished off pretty much as I started with last miles in the 7:20 to 7:30 range.
Barcelona seems a bit close to London for my liking - bear in mind how early London is this year. My 26.2 is done in early Feb - at least 2 months before London.
Even if you do manage to run it as a training run - (which I doubt) I believe you will be at risk of compromising your London performace doing it that close.
What Phil said, but I'd add that if you're aiming for 6:45 average then a 'good start' is 6:50, not 6:30. The worst thing you can do is worry about getting ahead of the crowds at the start and go too fast as soon as youget a bit of clear space. Use the crowds to control your early pace and you'll reap the benefits later in the race.
One gear - I dont intend to race barcelona. Plan was to treat it as a 20-22 mile training run and jog home last 4-6 miles. Did Rome last year 4 weeks before Brighton and while it was not ideal, i dont think it hindered too much.
If I was forced to run a marathon four weeks before the one that I had my heart set on running Sub3, I'd be inclined to jog the first 4-6 rather than the last .
Hmm thats a good point actually Andrews - I had not thought of it that way round.
so wednesday is midweek MP session. I didn't really have the motivation today, but a couple of espresso shots and I tried this. A bit of a variation on straight mara pace. I have a half next month with a plan to run at 6:10miling, so i thought i'd alternate between mara pace for 1mile then half MP for 1mile. It felt comfortably tough so i'll be interested to see if i can hold 6:10 for a complete half, won't be easy!
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/434073579#
hope you guys are getting some good running in
Bit of motivation dip for me too. Been getting the long runs in and now putting more pace into it So feeling a bit tired. 10 with 6 at MP today and a 6 recovery run tonight. will have a little cut back soon I think.
The marathon 4 weeks before I think I would probably have a slower start and probably do close to MP the last 10 or so. But we are all different and it depends on how quick you recover. After I would start to taper of long run distance but up to 2 weeks before London I would want to be getting the tempo and LT runs in.
As is frequently said, we are all different. I am unusual in the fact that London is the only marathon I have done - 7 times in the last 8 years. The other difference is that I am (very!), old so maybe you can do it without compromising London provided you have the self discipline to run it at training pace.
haha, how old is very old then One Gear? i'm no spring chicken myself creeping into the mid 40's this year. At least i can use age as an excuse if i get a crap result
I am afraid you can't use age as an excuse David. I am 58! I started running at 49 and did my first sub3 at 54
Holy crap one gear - that is impressive! I thought i was struggling as i am in my 40s!
David, interesting point re 1 mile at 6:10 and then 1mile at MP. I say this because my training plan had me do 10 miles with 5 at half MP pace, and i thought would it count if i did 1 one fast and one slower? I presumed not as it was a LT run and the idea is to get the body to get the lactate threshold lower, hence why you need 5 miles straight off.
I guess it depends if you were doing a VO2 or LT run. Any ideas?
Any ideas?
Great going one gear! At 46 I still have time/hope which is reassuring.
wenty I would hope that HM pace is not close to lactate threshold. I always understood that doing intervals etc were to increase LT and faster paced HMP or even 10k was VO2. Maybe I don't push hard enough but I don't feel I get near LT until 3k pace or doing say 15x400
Jeremy, I dont really know personally, but the P&D book has LT runs based on 15k-half marathon pace (with faster runners using half marathon pace).
Might be different for marathon training - not sure? - Anyone else?
David, I played football at local district level into my mid 40s but, as after most games I spent more time in the pub than on the football pitch, I am not sure the overall effect was positive from a fitness point of view!!!
When I was 48 I went to live and work in the States for a year and by this time had put on lots of weight. I came back to the UK at 49 and having given up football decided something had to be done. So to cut a long story short, I went from a 49 year old, overweight (12st 10lbs), non- runner to a 54 year old 9st 7lbs sub 3 marathon runner.
So you "youngsters" have plenty of time yet!
Will be watching you guys progress towards a sub 3 at London with interest.
Oi One gear - I'm 12.5 stone!!!! LOL.........
12st10 does not sound very overweight to me! how tall are you 4.5 foot?
one of my goals is to get down to 11.7 stone (I'm 5'9")