Beyond #asics262: life after Target 26.2 for sub-3:30 runner Malcolm



  • 4 x 800 in 3:23, 3:20, 3:23 and 3:30 (but got caught out when co-timer stopped well short). Pleased and relieved after my slow time trial.

  • Slowkoala yes, used to run with Steve B at Cambridge H - we had some good races back in the 80s but recall a 32 minute 10k well into his 50s.

    Re The Yasso session - it's far easier to run 8 or 10 x 800 in 3:29 than it is to run 3:29 for a marathon but it does give an idea of potential

  • I love short medium long runs! image

    27 weeks isn't focus, it's just a long time on the lead up when ur not 'really' marathon training, so the pressure is off a bit- managed to get some decent sessions in though.  Did 2 mile repeats a few weeks back as my long run at faster than MP!! My my, that was a tough session but it seems to have had big rewards.  Plus a few exploratory long runsimage

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Whoa - and I thought I was up late!

    DS2 - no problemo image

    ArrowsLou - that's awesome, nice one!

    Steve - do you think that Yasso is any better a predictor than a half marathon time?

    Angela - 2 mile repeats sound tough. Good to hear you got to explore a bit because you sure do like you're exploring! image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I love long long runs. image

    Up early to get moonlight run done before work. image

  • Really good 800m rep sessions guys....hitting the right paces already which is great image.

    I managed my progressive run yesterday - 1m w/u, then 4 @ 8.00, 7.30, 7.10, 6.50, 1m c/d. The last one was tough!

    I do pretty much all my interval and tempo sessions on the treadmill - it's because I have to do them at lunchtimes and working in London means it's impossible to run a quality session outside - too many traffic light stops and tourists to dodge. I used to try but gave up years ago. So I am a TM junkie and not ashamed to say it image
  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    I don't mind the TM for interval work Freemers! easier to be even paced. The track I use is horrendously windy because it's near the river estuary and it's like running into a wall in the back Straight but right behind in the home. Great progressive run - also one of my favourites.

    I will probably mix it up but really enjoyed last nights session.

    great stuff Arrows Lou!

    Minni - you are just mad!!!image

  • 3miles easy before work. These early morning runs aren't so bad once you get through the door. I don't know what I've been so afraid of.
  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    What's the plan today then Malcs?

    I couldn't be arsed to read back. presumably a shortish recovery run. Will probably do around 4 nice and easy myself. Legs can feel that I ran a bit faster yesterday but not too bad. Considering I haven't run faster than 7:45mm on any run since April until yesterday I would have expected more of a reaction.

    How are the legs of everyone else doing?

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    When does Ruth start getting involved Malcs/Steve? I intend to pay more attention this year to nutrition - perhaps a New Years resolution!image

    Is she not going to bother with Xmas around the corner? Let you all have one final blow out and then hit you hard in January!image

  • DS2 - what was your injury? Sounds like you are picking things up nicely though, and I agree with Steve you can always move things up a notch a bit later down the line if you think 3.15 is achievable.

    I'm scheduled for 5 easy today - my legs feel fine but you never really know until you start running!
  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Runners knee Freemersimage Taken a lot longer to recover than I had hoped. I ran through it a bit towards the end of my marathon training for Halstead in May. I knew it was potentially an issue but it came on about 5 weeks before and although I eased back a bit I had trained all winter for a GFA time and didn't want to waste it. So I carried on and ..........................!!!

    Does seem a lot better now and stood up well to the faster running last night. I will follow Steve's advice. Seems very sensible to me.

    I know what you are saying about the legs when you start running. Do you find that the TM causes less lactic build up than on the track? I'm sure that is the case for me, enabling me to recover quicker. 5 easy is one of my most unenjoyable sessions!!! So slow and it takes forever to get anywhere. Sadly, I'm at work in South London and it's not very picturesque. At least when I run at home I can take in the downs!

    How long does your commute take? I thought you were from Norfolk way???

  • tum te tum....

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭


    Week1 - Wednesday


    4M steady (approx 8:30 miles in 34 mins)

    Should be nice and easy after the injection of pace yesterday. 

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    DS2 - not sure when Ruth comes in to tear our diets to pieces. Last year I think it was the beginning of Jan. I think you're right, there's not much point in her trying to get involved over Christmas.

    Good to hear the legs are good today!

    PD - well done on the early one. I know what you mean - I struggle to get out early (and as a consequence I rarely do) but those sessions are great once you've done them. 

    Freemers - great progressive run! I used to be able to run on a treadmill but seem to have built up a fear of them over the past few years. At the gait analysis I had to keep chanting to myself "don't fall off, please God don't fall off" (in my head, not out loud of course - I'm only slightly mad not a complete nut job) image

    Angela - you ok? image

  • DS2 - I'm not sure if the TM makes the recovery easier....I've never thought about it in that way, but you could be right! And I hate the easy runs too - just have to suck it up and get on with it. But at least I can do those outside.

    My door-to-door commute is a tad over 2 hours, each way (I'm on the Suffolk/Norfolk border - well remembered!). It's 1hr40 on the train more or less and the rest in the car. So I do my sessions either at lunchtimes or sometimes I do them as soon as I get into London, depending on what my day looks like. I Very rarely after work as I am too knackered by the time I get home! I do work at home on Fridays which makes things a lot easier, as I can get a slightly longer run in usually - on other days I'm restricted to around 6 max, often less.
  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Just depressed myself by looking at my training diary from 1993/4. Never look back!!image


  • Congrats Malcs for getting through and winning your category! I know, I know, I'm majorly behind the times but better late than never image

    I'm being lazy, is your plan for the first few weeks on a page somewhere? Not that I'm likely to be getting 3:30 on a marathon anytime soon but I quite fancy the sound of some of these interval sessions! I tend to do all my interval training on the dreadmill, getting to a track round here is tricky and I'm yet to find the perfect stretch of road.

  • I m fine guys, just accidentally reposted a post I had already posted, so edited it to mindless mumbling as I couldn't think of anything better to say image

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Had us worried for a moment there!image

    Freemers - oh yes, Working at home on Fridays. need I say more? wink winkimage

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Angela - glad to know you've not lost (any more of) your marblesimage

    DS2 - you made the fatal mistake of running when you were alot younger! A terrible error my friend. I had the foresight to see how depressing it would be to look back at my 2:30 marathon time and long for the good old days so I deliberately waited until my late thirties to strap on the trainers. What can I say? I'm just a gifted natural forward thinkerimage

    LadyBee - many thanks indeed! No apologies here please image

    Here's my first 3 weeks. I'll re-post the week ahead each Monday so you know what's coming. Monday is a rest day so you'll have time to plan ahead if you're following the schedule to the letter.

    WEEK ONE Dec 16-22 (approx 27M)
    Mon 3M easy (approx 9:00 miles in 27 mins)
    Tue 5M of 1M jog, then 4 x 800m at approx 10km pace (3:30) with 400m jog in three minutes , then 1M jog
    Wed 4M steady (approx 8:30 miles in 34 mins)
    Thu 4M with middle 2M at marathon pace (sub 8s –rest 9s) approx 34 mins
    Fri Rest
    Sat 8M easy (approx 9:00 miles in 72 mins) 
    Sun 3M inc hill session or circuit

    WEEK TWO Dec 23-29 (approx 30M)
    Mon Rest
    Tue 4M of 1M jog, then 12 x 200m at mile/5km speed (approx 45-50 secs) with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
    Wed 5M steady (approx 8:30 miles in 42 mins)
    Thu 5M of 1M jog, then 3M at half-marathon pace (22 mins) then 1M jog
    Fri Rest
    Sat Parkrun or 30 mins fartlek (approx 4M)
    Sun 12M easy (approx 9:00 miles in 1 hours 48)

    WEEK THREE Dec 30-Jan 5 (approx 35M)
    Mon Rest
    Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 3 x 1M or 1600m at 10km pace (approx 7 mins) with 400m (or 3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
    Wed 6M steady (approx 8:30 miles in 51 mins)
    Thu 6M progression run – starting at 9s and each mile faster with last two miles inside 8s.
    Fri Rest
    Sat 13M steady (approx 8:30 miles in 1:51) 
    Sun 4M inc hill session or circuit

  • Malcs - Half-marathon is a far better predictor than the Yasso session as if you have good speed then you can run fast 800s but doesn't mean you can run well for longer distances. I would say though if you can't run 3:30s for 800s then a sub 3:30 is going to be harder to achieve,

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Malcs - that made me smileimage Still, it could be worse - I bet Steve gets really depressed! Then again he's maintained brilliant performances way beyond us mere mortals!

    Having looked again, I am liking your plan and think this will get me back into things nicely without over doing matters. love to see some fartlek in there! Where I live Fartlek happens naturally - jog uphill, race downhillimage Actually, when I was looking at those diaries I ran a lot of fartlek stuff and quite a lot of shorter faster intervals. I followed the plans from RW written by Bruce Tulloh. Steve's plans look quite similar. I never really liked the P&D plans that I followed last year. Too much plodding for my liking, although great for endurance!

    Steve - do you remember those plans Bruce Tulloh wrote in the early to mid 90's? I followed the Elite plans. I thought they were really well balanced and would like to follow something similar again but, obviously, I am a lot slower nowadays and, also, not sure I would cope with the higher mileage. Your current RW plans look more like my type of plan than P&D. Do you have any thoughts?

    Also (sorry to hog your thread Malcs) I came from running fast into marathons having run for a couple of years with a blind middle distance runner. As a result, speed was there and I just needed to build endurance and speed endurance, ultimately. Nowadays I often start from scratch and little speed. Do you think it's possible to concentrate on regular faster running and then build up endurance later or is this a recipe for disaster? I'm thinking beyond the spring. I'd like to think I have another Sub 3 in there somewhere!

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Out on Xmas day, that's commitment.

    My exercise will just be taking the dog for a walk when the mother in law gets too much to bear. ( so it may be quite a few miles in the end)
  • As a slight diversion to the running your are doing Malcs (and everyone else, you seem to be inspiring people to join in. Myself included did a nice 4.25 in 35:42 which for a man built for comfort like me is quite good), I'm going to ask some really important questions.

    1. Favourite Film? 2. Roast Chicken or Roast Beef?  3. Favorite Christmas Song? 4. Road Bike or Mountain Bike? 5. Garmin or App on Phone? and 6. Apart from when traning is it acceptable to wear white socks in public?


  • Malcs wrote (see)

    SupermanRuns - have a good one! 

    Millsy - I didn't like to sayimage Thanks for another great tip!

    EastEndJogger -

    DS2 - nice speed there! It's taken me an hour to convert that all to min/mile pace equivalents. 6:48 - 6:40 pace is pretty damn good. Good to hear it's left you smiling!

    Angela - I've not done the 800s before but heard good things. I really liked this session today.

    Your 27 week programme is immense. I don't think I could stay focused for that long image

    PD - holy moly, slightly quick you say? Sure you shouldn't be hanging out on Roger's thread? image

    Minni - alright, alright, you can come back but only if you promise not to use the 'A' word!image 

    Malcs - I think sub 3 might be a bit beyond me as a first timer, but I'm hoping for the top half of the the sub 3:30 range.  Maybe if I keep expressing my admiration for Asics fantastic range of running attire, I might be in with a shout for Roger's place next year.

    SD - My previous running experience included junior xc as a kid.  My mum jokes now that I was always second last.  I'd give everything to avoid being last, but if I wasn't at the back I'd just plod along.

    Reg - Glad someone has brought up the important stuff:

    1. As a youth it would be Evil Dead 2 or maybe Tremors.  Don't watch many films these days, but Mesrine was pretty good.

    2. Beef

    3. 2000 miles by the Pretenders

    4. road bike

    5. garmin

    6. no

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    DS2 - not at all, this is great, please hog away. The thread is not just for my mindless rambling image Not that I'm suggesting that you are rambling or that it's mindless. Just want to make that clear!

    Steve - many thanks for that. All makes perfect sense.

    Millsy - ha ha image 

    Reg - excellent running sir, I tip my hat to you! Ooh - interesting questions. 

    1. Shawshank / Bladerunner - sorry, can't pick between them.

    2. Chicken - would be beef but it depends too much on the chef, chicken is harder to cock up.

    3. Wombling Merry Christmas by the Wombles (no kidding)

    4. Road - by a country mile. 

    5. Garmin - no brainer. I can't imagine how people manage to lug phones around with them.

    6. Good lord no! Absolutely not. Just never! Well, maybe if they are Asicsimage

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Today's session done. 4M in 34 mins. Splits were 8:34, 8:28, 8:27 and 8:31. Pretty happy with that.

    I found this harder than I thought it would be. First and last miles were fine but the middle two were a little bit more of a slog. Maybe I should have picked a flatter route? 

    Overall it was fine though and certainly not difficult. It'll be interesting to compare with tomorrow's 4M with middle two at MP.

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Good effort Malcs. It was partly a recovery run so as expected reallyimage

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    I'd be interested to see how you find the marathon paced runs.

    During the first few weeks of any plan they always felt really tough for me and I always doubt if I can ever do 26.2 at that pace. But it's amazing how much you improve over the 16 weeks.

    I'm running short on schoolboy errors ill have to post one later on when I've had a good think.
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