Manchester Marathon 2017



  • MrPotatoHeadMrPotatoHead ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Some great running reports over the weekend people! 

    SiC I love your optimisim how you say you felt fresh at the end of your 23miler despite losing a toenail and blisters, the marathon should be a doddle for you :smile:

    Daz I could lower the tone by making a curry and runs joke....but I am far too high brow for that! 

    OuchOuch my wife has been remarking that I look like death, so I take it I am nearly ready for the marathon start line. I have been making a particular effort to eat and sleep better for this cycle, so I am hoping its just the look and not actually my body being drained!!

    I just got out the once since last Wednesday, chalking up 23 miles in about 2:56 yesterday. Felt pretty good for the most of it, so I am happy enough!!! Still going to be touch and go if i make the GFA time (3:05) but even if my training had went better, so much will depend on the day so I am optimistic if nothing else! 
    I also spent 90mins digging the garden yesterday afternoon, so the body was in shock last night!!

    DPJ77 I will be doing something similar to you on the longish runs, 16& 12 i think is in the P&D 55, although I may slack off a bit on the 12 on the last week, I will listen to my body. Cracking time on the Bath half btw.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Cal - that's interesting about Zatopek (not that I really know much about him but have heard the name). Nice run this morning, it sounds lovely.

    Of course, the down side of me having a good run yesterday is that I'm now undecided about what my target MP should be again. My original target was sub 3:30, i.e. 8:00 pace, but my middle 10 miles of yesterday's 20 came out at 7:37 average (which equates to a 3:20 marathon), and was pretty consistent. It was getting harder for the last couple of miles at MP, and these came out about 10s/mile slower than the same miles on the previous lap, and I was happy to ease off, though in part this was because I was wary of pushing too hard and compromising my marathon. I certainly could have carried on at that pace for a bit longer, though it likely would have hurt.

    My current thinking is that at Manchester, I will aim for 7:45 pace, which would be 3:23 if I can keep it up for the whole distance. When it comes down to it, I will most likely see how I feel on the day, and may try to get to half way in 1:40 and see if I can hold on for a sub 3:20 time. I feel like if was being really ambitious then I could try and hold on to the 3:15 pacing group, which is about the limit of what I think is achievable if everything goes well on the day. But that would put me at serious risk of blowing up and not even making 3:30, which was my original target. I guess I need to decide which is more important to me.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I'm in the same boat, Nick - albeit a slower boat. I've been thinking 10:15 for MP but I've been running faster than that recently. My last 20 averaged at 10:18 on fairly hilly course and my attempt at a MP half marathon today came in under 10 min/mi pace. I'm aware of the fact that this will be only my second marathon, and the last one was a painful slog after 20, so I'm wondering if I should hang with the 4:30 pacer or try to keep up with the 4:15 pacer? Argh, I just don't know!

    Mr Potato - digging the garden after that run? All I can do after a 20 (to be fair, I'm out for nearly three and a half hours at that distance) is flop into a bath and then flop in front of the TV. Even sitting in front of the computer is too tiring for my knackered postural muscles!
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    NickW2 - I think your run yesterday shows your in good shape and maybe 3.15 to 3.23 is the A Target especially with the benefit of a few weeks of tapering rest and some quicker stuff.   I feel (without going mad in the first 5 miles) that if the training has gone well most people run too conservatively. I always feel fine seconds after a marathon finish.  
    LittleNell - Having an active pooch (2 runs a day) and largely wfh really helps.
    Marathon number 1024 - happy with that - prefer even numbers 
    Rest day today and will go for 15/12 as the last Sunday runs albeit next Sunday will be in Paris along the river as going to see Wales in the rugby.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Cal - it's my 2nd marathon also, though I didn't fare too badly in my first, I had a couple of walk breaks in the 2nd half but didn't completely explode, only a 5 min positive split for a 3:59 which I was over the moon with. The last 10 miles were pretty hard though.

    My plan has me running mainly at MP for the taper period, so I guess I will see how that feels to try and further inform my choice. I'll probably change my mind about 100 times between now and the race.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Yeah, honestly, I think I'd struggle with 4:15 pace (it's 9:40s which I can do for a good long while, but probably not 26 miles). I'm thinking 10 minute miles could be achievable, at least up to 20 miles but I expect to slow after that. I should probably go with the 4:30 group and if it goes well, try to go faster at Liverpool. We'll see I guess.

    Nell - thanks for the donation, by the way! :smiley:
  • DPJ77DPJ77 ✭✭
    Ouchouch, I totally misread your comment and thought you were saying you'd already done 1023 marathons and this was number 1024 - took me a while to clock you were talking about race numbers!
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    DPJ77 - That would be scary...this would be my 20th...although yesterday on my long run I saw an older chap I've seen running a few times, and we chatted and did 4 or so miles together and he told me he was 64, has run 106 marathons, 5 of the 6 majors at an average pace of 3.11 and aiming to run sub 4 in London. He is my new running role-model. Remarkable.
  • Si CSi C ✭✭
    Guys some great running

    Daz and Nick 20 in 2.44 and 2.37 can only dream of that pace.

    Ouch nice 21 and 78 for the week great effort.

    Nell again well done on yr 20, great pace

    Mr Potato 23 in 2.56, wowzer im sure your get the time that you want.

    Cal nice 1/2, im similar pace to you and not sure what target to aim for. Runners never satisied, i reckon. After a big ankle op in 2013 and told my running/sporting days were over. I did a 10k in 2014, 2015 & 2016 then decided over xmas to go for the big one. Initial aim was and still is, is to finish. Then aim to go for 5 hours. Within a month of training that dropped to 4.30 then 4.20 now plan to keep with the 4.15 pacer. My 22 on sunday averaged at a 9.30 pace. But woke up this morning debating whether to try sub 4. I think i need to wake up and smell the coffee and rain my timings in a bit. So have decided to stick with the 4.15 pacer. Until i change my mind again
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Si this time last year I could only dream of that pace, I remember doing a 20 miler similar sort of thing 10 miles at 9:30 then 10 at 8:30, went pretty well but couldn't hold the pace for last couple and was back over 9 min miles. It sounds like your training has gone really well, maybe see how 9 min milling feels on some of your taper runs if you think sub 4 is possible? I'm a bad influence though I always tell people to aim for the faster times lol >:)
  • Really interesting reading about everyone thinking what pace to go for.  I lost sleep over this last time!  Cal - it sounds like you can go under 4:30.  You are quicker than me and I did 4:26 last October. Obviously other things come into it - the mental side, stamina over the last few miles, how you feel on the day...  

    Well done on all those long runs. I'm doing my last long one next weekend but think that is later than most? 
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    For me at least there are 3 MPs, that I can manage (normally too fast) to half way, the pace from half-way to 20 miles (generally slower but hopefully still quick enough) and ten the real race the pace for the last 6 miles.  Don't want to complicate things.
  • FayaFaya ✭✭✭
    Dang, everyone going on about 8-10 min miles. I'm looking at 13-14 min miles! I'd have loved to have gotten under 5:40, but that's not looking realistic for me at all at this point.

    I also had to start my tapering early. Kind of killed my legs in the half with the run there and back last weekend. Hopefully my legs will recover by the 2nd :/  

  • Ouch - that sounds quite complicated to me  :D

    Faya - fingers crossed your legs recover. Still the best part of 3 weeks to go.

    Hope everyone else okay. I have trouble changing my mentality from cramming as many miles in as I can to tapering.
  • Hi everyone - thought I should probably come out after weeks of standing on the side lines and congratulate everybody on their training to date.

    It sounds like everybody is doing amazingly well and also doing many more miles than I am!! :/

    I did have the joy of running with my eldest at the Bath Half on Sunday which I have to say was a great experience. He did a 1:46 with a days notice for his 1st ever half, so needless to say he is suffering from Tuesday (and probably Wednesday) legs!

    Well done everyone - keep it going, its not long now!!
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Hi everyone.  I've not posted on this thread since the forum change...  but it's all getting closer now, so hello again.

    I guess someone's done this already, but I translated the map into Mapometer, so you can see an elevation profile  or even download to a watch if you like.  Before doing that, I'd not noticed how much the first miles of the route have changed.

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Thanks for that, Northender. When you say changed, do you mean since last year or since them moved to the cricket ground?

    Si, sounds good. I have the dubious luxury of having a second marathon at the end of May so I can play around with pacing a bit at Manchester and see how I feel. I am pretty comfortable at around 10 minute miles but I realise the 4:15 pacer is in the 9:40s so I don't think it would be smart of me to try and hang with him/her at this point. I've only been over 20 miles once (at Manchester last year) so, whilst I'm better prepared this time around, I really don't know how my body is going to handle it.

    Anyway, 10 miles done today - 1 warm-up and 9 around the 10 minute mile mark (give or take 10 seconds). Felt quite comfortable.
  • I had an impromptu weekend trip to Spain, which worked wonders on my body. Ran my last 20 miler (according to my training plan) on Saturday in 32 degree heat on sand with the sun blazing and burning my forehead. Weirdly, it clocked in at 3:23, which exactly the same as the 20 miler 2 weeks ago in the 6 degree heat in Newcastle (it was as windy as in Spain this weekend). It took me more than 24 hours to recover, which was heavily influenced by running on sand, my quadriceps were a bit sore even on monday morning.

    On Monday I went and bought myself skins running pants as the chafing from my last run was bloody awful (literally) and I needed something new, my 3 year old nike dry tights have had enough (or I've had enough of them). I wonder how many hundreds of washes it takes for running clothes to lose their abilities and hi-tech clothing and change into regular clothes?

    After that run, my training plan tells me I should start tapering now, with a 12 miler on Saturday. But I feel I'm not ready to taper yet, I need one more 20 miler under my belt to be confident and feel ready. What do you all think, is it too risky doing another one this weekend and start my tapering after that?

    My pace drops significantly after 16 miles and both times I've done a 20 miler, the last ~6 miles have been in very difficult conditions (stormy winds, or strong winds with soft sand). Although it's good training, I want to get one where I can test myself in conditions more similar to the actual race.

    But as we are getting close, the risk of injury is at the back of my mind, and as this will be my first marathon, I don't know the effect of having a 3 week vs 2 week taper. The main goal is the race, not the last long run, isn't it.

    Other than that, my terrifying fear that this is going to be extremely horrible has changed into slight excitement. I want to get to the starting line already.
  • Pete HoltPete Holt ✭✭✭

    well done everybody, nearly there now.

  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    MartinU - Questions questions.  How many 20 milers have you done this time around? What is your target for Manchester? What are your most recent marathons and times? 
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    MartinU - Sorry just noticed this will be your debut.  I don't think I would recommend you do the 20 miler especially after your Spanish sandy 20 miler but why not something like 16 miles at a relatively easy pace, which is certainly long enough and perhaps run the last few miles a little bit quicker, maybe your planned MP?
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    MartinU - Ouch Ouch is spot on, in my opinion. 16 at a relatively easy pace is the best thing to do.  Go through every (serious) training plan on the internet and I doubt you'll find any that would suggest 20 miles just 2 weeks away.  There is a reason for that! Physiologically, your body will get more harm than good from another 20 miler. Psychologically, you should have all the confidence you need from Spain and Newcastle 20 milers... well done for that. Trying not to be patronising, it is a common rookie error to try to do too much... next you'll be telling us you plan to run the first half of the marathon super fast, so you can bank some time  :p

    Cal - this year, there are some very significant changes in the first 4 miles... and a few other sections that have some notable changes... then from 19 miles, it remains the same as last year. If you're local, I'd recommend you compare the two maps.

    Even if you don't really know the streets, it's still worth checking out. Looking at the elevation profile, I now see that the fourth mile has a gradual descent in it... about 24 feet.  I know that's not lots, but in my mind, I'm thinking that I'll get the first 3 miles under my belt to warm up, then use that 'downhill' mile to get right into race pace.

    Incidentally, I see that he route map with all the SIS gel stations marked on it... I don't think that was there a few weeks ago.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Interesting, I wonder if they've changed it to minimise traffic disruption? My friend who lives there says the traffic in Manchester has increased massively and they keep building tower blocks so more peopke can move in. (He grumbles about it a lot, actually).
    And yeah, I don't remember it going past Pomona last year. I hope, as they've changed it, they've made sure they measured it properly... :worried:

    Anyway, another beautiful spring day so I headed out for a relaxed 7 miles (10:22 average). I'll do another run tomorrow and then I'll be heading out to Dubai for a 5 day holiday where I won't be running at all. Not the ideal taper, really, but I did once set a HM PB after returning from a 2 week holiday in Italy (lots of walking but I only managed 3 short runs).
  • Looks like everyone has been progressing nicely over the past couple of weeks. Haven't checked in because I've been in complete denial and out of action on the injury bench with groin/adductor issues. Training had been going so well and I was in my best form ever, but I ended up doing only 6 miles across what should have been the two final high mileage weeks of training (50-55 miles each week). So, I've gone into the 3 week taper having not really run for 2 weeks! Ouch :-(

    I'm just hoping that the two 20 milers and the 26.2 that I'd done in the weeks leading up to the injury will be enough. I'm not willing to abandon my sub3:45 GFA goal just yet, but I'm a lot more anxious about it now.

    I did manage a 5 miler at just under marathon pace without any repercussions on Tuesday evening so that's good. Now to get in some miles across the weekend...and try to make up an losses in form/speed. Have a 10 mile race on Sunday that I'll do some of, but not all, at marathon pace. I don't think I'm prepared to run any longer this weekend in case of reinjury :-(
  • Thanks for letting me know, Ouch Ouch and NorthEnder. Those are the kind of rookie mistakes I want to avoid. I'll limit myself to what the training plan says and try and make it to the finish line in good health and without injuries.

    Today was the weirdest run I've ever had. The training plan said a 4 mile tempo run. Which looked weird, as last week it was 8 miles,50 % down in a week. I though, fair enough, this should be alright. I was a bit faster than usual, I guess my mind knew the distance when setting the pace. 4 miles in 30 minutes is an okay tempo run in my mind, though just a bit more tiring than usual when running at a tempo like that. But after my shower and the hours after, my body felt like I had had a very hard run. And then, a few hours later I sent a selfie to my gf who is abroad at the moment, and she said I looked like I usually do after my very long runs, I looked like I had run 20 miles.

    My muscles aren't sore or anything, but my energy levels are near the point of there being nothing left. My diet hasn't changed, I haven't been doing anything out of the usual, I don't feel ill or anything. Could I be suffering from some kind of a nutritional deficiency? I have no idea what else it could be. And it came out of nowhere, I was feeling well and dandy before the "hard" run.

    My diet is very rich in fruit and veg and nuts and protein and should be very balanced, but I don't know, there is nothing else that comes to mind other than a lack of vitamin or mineral or ...?

    Has anyone else had days with an extreme lack of energy after a seemingly light run?
    I had an easy 6 miler yesterday and felt great all day.
  • Rachey- hope your injury clears up quickly.

    Martin - hope you get a good night's sleep and feel better tomorrow.

    Cal - sounds like your training is going well. Enjoy Dubai!

    I'm going against the grain and having a 2 week taper, as advised by some experienced marathon runners at my running club. Only time will tell if it's a mistake or not :o.  I had a two and a half week taper last time and that worked fine.  I am being careful this week though and have reduced my mileage a little.

    I was hoping my race pack would have arrived by now...
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Oh no Rachey! Hope you are better soon. I am sure you won't have lost much endurance, and make sure not to over exert yourself trying to "catch up" the missed miles.

    Aber - I'm sure it will be fine with a 2 week taper, different people respond differently. Maybe just avoid a 20+ miler this weekend? I had an email on Tuesday saying my "race pack" (which sounds an overly official name for what I understand will just be a number and chip) had been dispatched, so I would hope it will arrive today or tomorrow.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Snail - people from my club said 2 as well. Then again, they're a lot younger than I am so their recovery ought to be better.

    Rachey - good that you got through your 5 with no issues. Groins are tricky - did mine in December 15 and it put me out for a month. Definitely the most painful injury I've had. I have to be careful even now as it will twinge on occassion if I do something it doesn't like. Fortunately, since it was a gym injury, it doesn't seem to mind running.

    Race packs have gone out. I hope mine arrives tomorrow, otherwise it's going to be sitting in the communal hallway until I get back from holiday. :/

  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    RacheyD1978 - I am sure your 3 20m+ runs to date will give you the endurance you need for the marathon and good to see you back in your running.  You wouldn't have lost much fitness and the enforced break may well have done you the world of good.
    MartinU - marathon runners need a lot more iron than the average Joe, due to cell destruction/ rebuild so consider taking a daily iron/ multi-vit tablet - I certainly do.
    Aber - as NickW says avoid any very long runs now...and plenty of rest.

    In taper mode now but still doing 50 mpw which seems strange and generally twice daily 5 mile runs with the pooch, sometimes with fartlek, sometimes with a  few fast 800m or 1m reps thrown in.  The main run 15 miles along the Seine in Paris this weekend which should be good.   Looking forward to getting the number in the post now as that makes it all very real and I think I have probably trained/ thought more about this race than any other!
  • Agree with OO again Rachey.  You've banked the base endurance... and that won't fall off more than a fraction in the last 5 weeks - what takes a long time to build, takes a long time to dissipate.

    But, as you probably know, your 'top end' systems... like VO2 max, do drop off faster. The good thing is that they are much much less important to the marathon than your base endurance - but if you get chance to get back into the rhythm a bit, with perhaps one or two short sharp runs thrown in - including some fast 800m intervals, that will be great - because your VO2 max is also quick to come back.  But by far, the most important thing now is to make the start line free of injury... because fast intervals might shave a couple of minutes off your time... but exacerbating an injury will cost you much more than that!

    I'm probably on for my highest weekly total of the campaign - breaking fifty... but only because last Sunday's 20 miler had to be done on Monday evening....  so I'll have two long runs in a single calendar week.  Last week's 15 mile total looks a bit paltry though!

    Happy tapering everyone.
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