Valencia Marathon

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  • Sounds like you’re getting in some good consistent running BB. Definitely agree about the fresher weather. Four 60 mile + weeks out of the last five sounds like very solid training.

    Cal - I wear the older, non fly knit version of the Nike Zoom Flys and love them. Was tempted to the flyknit version a few weeks ago but went for the older version again as they were 60 euros cheaper and I’ve been very happy with them. Hope recovery is progressing.

    Well done Gipfel. Shows the training is paying off. If you can eek out a bit more improvement over the next few weeks, then sub 4 maybe on the cards. Do you use McMillan Pace Calculator? It’s usually been pretty accurate for me.

    Training starting to go more consistently. Did a good 18 miler on Sunday and then backed that up with 3 x 2 miles at marathon pace minus 10 seconds yesterday. Definitely felt stronger and maintained the pace all the way through.

    Hope everyone is having a good week.
  • When you say Marathon Pace minus 10 seconds, is that ten seconds slower or faster than MP? Assume faster but I’ve seen others interpretate that as 10 secs off MP i.e. ten seconds slower!

    Either way sounds like a solid session. 

    I managed an hour at MP last night bookended by a couple of 15min easy segments. 
  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Sounds like everyone is doing well! Cal, hope you'll start to feel more recovered sometime soon (and that the Achilles settles down) - at least you're managing a few runs, so I am guessing you will be maintaining the marathon fitness you've already built up. Chester does sound really good - might put it on the list of possibilities, especially as it's not so far from where I live. Oxford was flat - I remember one extremely gentle incline (couldn't call it a hill), which I only noticed at all because it went on for a while, then looped back down again in the other direction. Strangely, I just looked at my Valencia run from last year - the total elevation gains for Oxford half and Valencia full were literally identical at 190ft! The slowest bits in Oxford were the sections that narrowed/turned and therefore got a bit congested - there were a few of those - unlike Valencia, where they've made a massive effort to get rid of any sections like that on the course. 

    BB and LT, sounds as if you're both getting in some extremely solid sessions - and good that you're feeling stronger, LT. Thanks for the McMillan calculator - I hadn't used it before but of course had to try - it is another 'yes' for sub-4, so I hope that I, like you, find it accurate! It seems fair for all the other distances too, but marathon distance is such a different beast.

    My Sunday long run was 20 miles at MP + 30 secs (30 secs slower, that is!), and it felt pretty manageable. I also noticed that I'd done the same 20-mile route exactly this time last year, but much slower! So that was encouraging. My legs weren't happy to be forced into a 1200m interval session yesterday - they coped, though. The psychology of training is interesting - it seems that when sessions are officially 'on the plan', my brain thinks I can/should be able to do them so makes my legs fall into line. I'm pretty sure that if I were just making up my own training, I'd have thought I was too tired to manage a tough session yesterday and would have just done a few easy miles instead. Am doing (I hope) 10 miles at MP tomorrow - that will be a good test.

    It's getting to that point where you start to think about Valencia shoes! I'm undecided between my Mizuno Wave Sky (most comfortable shoe I've ever had over very long runs - not a hint of pain anywhere - but quite clumpy/heavy) and something else lighter (but probably less comfortable in the later miles). On balance, it will probably be the Sky, seeing as I'm hardly at a level where the extra weight will make much difference!
  • LittleTheo - yeah I have the old style Zoom Flys - I did Chester in them. When I got them I found them too hard underfoot for distance (when I wore them in The Big Half in March I felt like I'd been in stilletos all day) and only used them for parkrun and the odd 10K. But it seems either my feet hardened up or the shoes broke in and I was able to start doing longer distances. They were no issue for Chester.
    The one thing I didn't like about them was the hard achilles tab and the fact they took so long to lace up (compared to my flyknit Epic Reacts and Frees) so I was thrilled when they announced the flyknit version. I'll give them a go at a parkrun soon.
  • Big BertieBig Bertie ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Took my brand new Saucony Fastwitches out this week.

    I’ll use them for my midweek MP sessions but continue doing my long weekend runs in my Kinvaras.

    Intend to race in the Fastwitches!
  • Some good footwear chat! Cal, my experience with the Zoom Flys was very different to yours. They felt great straight from when I tried them on in the shop, which was initially just out of curiosity, to the very first run and ever since really. Sounds like they took a while for you to get used to them but glad they were fine for you at Chester though wouldn’t know what you mean by the stilletoes comparison! The shop assistant let me try a version of the fly knits on in the shop and I must admit they felt as comfortable as a  slipper but when I had a go in them on the treadmill I didn’t really get any ‘wow’ feeling from them, certainly not enough to lay out another 60€. Do you think they weigh less than the original model?

    Gipfel
    , I wore Mizuno Wave Riders in Valencia last year and really like them. Found them comfortable but responsive and definitely not clumpy. BB, never worn Saucony. Are Kinvaras one of their models? The only time I tried a pair of Saucony shoes on they really slipped about and that put me off.

    BB: MP -10 secs is ten seconds faster on my training plan. With warm ups / downs and rest intervals it came out at almost eleven and a half miles so a good midweek medium long run too. Sounds like you had a really good session. An hour at MP is an excellent effort. Do you sometimes wonder on these MP runs how you’ll be able to sustain it for 26 miles / 42 kms?

    Gipfel, very interesting what you say about the mental side of training. Rather than always thinking I can do them, I think more along the lines of I’ve got to do them. I’m a little obsessive about about these things and worry about not sticking to a plan, rightly or wrongly. However, when I’m not following a plan and am just ticking over / base building, I tell myself I should do the odd short tempo but can hardly ever bring myself to do it. Like you say, it can be so easy to skip a hard session but I do feel the structure of a plan helps to prevent this.
    Hope the McMillan pace calculator proves accurate for you.

  •  Do you sometimes wonder on these MP runs how you’ll be able to sustain it for 26 miles?

    Always!
  • Hi Guys,
    training for a while for my first marathon - planned to be Valencia.
    just realized that it's too late for subscription and no free bibs and spots left. the organizer told me that if I can find someone that has registered but is not planning to go... I will be able to change the name of the BIB for 3eur...

    in case that anyone there has second thoughts or is not in health condition (injured?) - I will be happy to use you spot (I will pay the cost off course). please contact me on my personal email- [email protected]

    Thanks,
    Akiva
  • Good luck getting a spot, Akiva. You could look at Saint Sebastian, not sure if that one is sold out but it's another fast Spanish one.
    LT - I don't think they're lighter - they may even be a bit heavier as they now have the full carbon plate the Vaporfly has, rather than the "carbon infused" plastic plate in the older models.
    By wearing stilletos, I mean the excrutiating pain in the balls of your feet you get from wearing high heels. I had some nice boots with heels when I was younger, but they just weren't worth the pain. A few years ago I gave all my boots to the charity shop and live in trainers and Vibrams.

  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Cal, I'm with you on high heels, or I should say lack of. I also live in trainers whenever I can - am pathetically bad at walking in even the tiniest heels. I also find it good to be able to run (literally) to train stations, appointments, etc. when I need to!!

    LT, Wave Riders have been my standard shoe for years now and I agree, they are brilliant (and may be a marathon possibility for me too). The Skys are basically a heavier/plusher version! I've been doing a lot of my training in Asics Kinseis, which I've found really good (by far the best Asics I've ever used). Sadly the last model is pretty much discontinued now, and I'm not sure yet if they're continuing the range - there's no sign of any new ones coming out. When I realised this, and how much I liked them, I scoured the internet and bought what seemed to be the last pair of shoes in my size in the world, so am saving the new pair for 'best' in case I do decide to wear them!

    I have also found myself to be completely obsessive about sticking to my training plan - I've been lucky not to have to deviate from it yet, but I know I'll be disproportionately annoyed/disappointed with myself if I have to miss or change a session, which is bound to happen at some point! And my MP session last week also made me wonder how it would be sustainable for the whole race. Glad to hear you guys feel the same, as I'm pretty sure you will have achieved your goal MP in an actual marathon before, unlike me! I am telling myself it's psychological again - when you aim to run, say, for an hour at MP, your brain only gears up for an hour, so you can't imagine doing more...

    Akiva, there is a Valencia Marathon 2018 Strava group where people have been posting to buy/sell places. It has to be said that most people are trying to buy, but I have seen a couple selling too, so it could be worth keeping an eye on it. Good luck!

    Can you believe we're only 5-something weeks away now? It's starting to feel properly close! Now that it's starting to get colder and darker, I'm looking forward to a bit of sunshine in Valencia - although Sunday's long run here was beautiful, with sunshine/mist on the canal, and nice autumn colours (we had visitors staying so I was out very early in order to cause minimal disruption to the day, and avoided the rubbish weather later in the day). I've been a lot better about getting out for early weekend runs in recent months - I'm usually one for procrastination, but I definitely prefer the early morning when I do manage to get out, and it'll be better preparation for race day too. Rushed out on Sunday without having coffee, though - which definitely won't be happening in Valencia. It didn't seem to affect how I felt on the run, which makes me think my 'need' for pre-run coffee is yet another psychological thing!
  • I think that’s a fair point Gipfel about the mind being conditioned to run whatever is on plan that day, especially with the harder sessions. In the marathons that have gone well for me, I’ve always found that sustaining marathon pace has felt quite a bit more comfortable over race distance compared to training. I also think that unquantifiable factor that makes people run faster in races also plays a role. The two marathons that have gone badly resulted from ‘start line creep’ leading to an over ambitious early pace resulting in a world of pain later on.

    Your canal side run with autumn colors sounds very nice. I can procrastinate a bit at weekends too but am always really pleased when I manage to get out fairly early. I like to have a cup of tea before I head out and then breakfast / coffee when I get back. However, I’ll do a couple of long runs off a breakfast over the next few weeks just to replicate what will happen on race day. Interesting comment about not noticing the lack of caffeine given that the boost it’s supposed to provide and the amount of gels that contain it.

    Ran a half marathon last Sunday: 1:29.06. Not a disaster but certainly didn’t go the way I wanted and the last third of the race was hard going. That was down to me going out too hard. I ran the first 5k 35 seconds faster than last year’s race but was slower overall. It was a good reminder to focus on execution rather than result. Had a very good 5 x 1k at 10k pace session a few days later and the legs didn’t feel too bad so feel better about things now.

    Hope everyone’s training is going well.
  • Big BertieBig Bertie ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Less than 5 weeks to go! How are we all feeling?

    My plan was for my longest run yesterday but I was off the pace so will try again next weekend. Hopefully it was just a bad day at the office and not an indication that I’m not quite where I should be fitness-wise!

    Still, it was a good 2h 50m on my feet which all helps...
  • I did 16 on Sunday (my longest run since Chester). Horrible wind and rain - ended up going a bit too fast to get it over with! Feel fine though.
    LT - what's your HM PB? Because that time sounds very quick to me! (I know it's all relative, though - I'm not that far under two hours).

  • Yes it's fair to say autumn is here! I stepped out into pouring rain and a stiff breeze but thankfully the rain dried up after about half an hour and by the time I'd finished it was near perfect running conditions.

    Good effort on the 16. It's tough post marathon (I'm contemplating doing two marathons in the space of 3 weeks next spring) have done it before and swore I'd never do it again, but thinking if I pick one as a target and the other as an extended training run. Let's get Valencia out of the way first!

    LT - 100% agree. Race discipline is so important and often underestimated. Especially in the longer (i.e. marathon) distances. It's difficult but I try to never compare how I feel in training to how I should feel in a race (when running at MP for example). In training you have no benefit of a taper, race day adrenaline and you're generally not nutritionally as on point as you would be for a target race; all factors that would come in to play on race day that should benefit you considerably. For example, I don't take any hydration or gels during training (inc. long runs) with the main objection being I will feel the benefit more on race day.

    It's tough mentally when you're struggling with 30 mins of MP knowing you got multiples of that to get through on race day!

    Track session tonight - oh joy!

  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Well, for once the weather seems to have been better oop north - my long run yesterday was in glorious sunshine the whole way! It was cold, though - headed to the seafront for a flat out-and-back, and it felt really still until I turned around, then had to suffer a harsh headwind for a few miles - could see my average pace getting slower, but managed to claw it back on track again in the last couple of miles when things got a bit more sheltered.

    I don't normally use earphones while running outside, but bought myself some bone-conducting Aftershokz a few weeks ago and am really impressed with them - good, clear sound and very comfortable. So I've been listening to audiobooks during the long runs - mainly ones about running. Latest is Deena Kastor's 'Let Your Mind Run', a lot of which is about turning negative thoughts into positive thoughts while running, so I like to think that was helping me battle through the headwind on Sunday!!

    Sounds as if everyone's running is going well. LT, it's amazing how going off just a bit too fast at the beginning of a race can make so much difference to how you feel later - glad you felt better after your next training run, which shows that it was just down to race tactics and not how the training is going generally. Cal, you must be fully recovered from Chester now then, and obviously well on track for Valencia. BB, agree that 2h 50m is a decent session on the feet even if it wasn't as long as you'd planned - seems to make sense to do the longer run another time rather than squeezing it in regardless and feeling disappointed with the pace.

    Did anyone see the pictures of Venice marathon from this weekend? People were having to run through ankle-deep water - looked a bit much! (I kept seeing online adverts for that one and was tempted, but had already entered Valencia so thought maybe another time.) Also, the men's half-marathon world record was beaten at Valencia on Sunday - I know the half is a different course from the full, but it shares some of the same route and just shows how potentially fast it is. I prefer our course, as the half misses out on the spectacular finish, which I absolutely loved last year!
  • Cal - 1:26.58 back in May. It’s definitely all relative! I don’t know if anyone saw but it was the Valencia Half on Sunday and the men’s WR went down (58:18). That’s mindblowingly quick. Anyway, as BB says, good effort getting out and doing 16 on Sunday not so long after Chester.

    I did 20.5miles on Sunday at the end of my peak week. The last 10k were quite hard going physically and mentally, with about four or five kms uphill. It felt like the end of a race but the training plan I use (Hansons) says that the long run should simulate exactly that and not the start of the race when the legs are nice and fresh.

    BB - yes, might sound a bit of a cliche but I think there’s something in the phrase ‘if the process is good, the result takes care of itself’. Don’t think I thought enough about this the other Sunday but it’s certainly sharpened my focus for Valencia re race strategy and planning. Agree with everything you’ve said there. Enjoy the track session tonight.

    Did 2 x 5k at MP - 10 secs in the rain this morning. It went pretty well despite tired quads. Started to slip a bit on the second set but I got it back and probably overdid the final km and felt light - headed when I finished but didn’t need to stop or anything and just went straight into the warm down.

    Have a good week everyone.
  • Hi All

    I am trying to get a registration for Valencia 2018 - anyone have any advice/recommendation of where I coudl get one at this late stage?

    Many thanks!
  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Rob, the organisers have set up an official number exchange Facebook group (looks as if there's just a nominal fee for changing numbers), so it may be worth taking a look there. There's a link to it on the main marathon website, or just search Facebook for the 'Maratón Valencia' page. Hope you find a place!
  • Gipfel, yeah, I can imagine all those people who shelled out over £200 on Vaporflys were absolutely horrified. I did see footage of some poor bastard on a handbike go through. Didn't envy him that chilly bath.
    10 miles done today.
    Just discovered I have a GFA qualifying time for Chicago next year (it's quite generous for my age group) but not sure I want to splash out so much money on a race (and I'm the Berlin ballot anyway). Hmm.
  • Gipfel - think we must have posted at the same time the other day otherwise I would have responded. My Mum lives on the coast and it’s not easy on an out and back when you turn into the wind. Well done for getting it done. I’ve heard Deena Kastor on a couple of podcast and think she comes over well. Apparently, she lives in a place called Mamoth Lakes in California and it looks stunning, a great place for running and hiking. I think a number of US elite groups train there sometimes. Didn’t see the pictures of Venice.

    Cal - well done for getting the Chicago GFA. Looks like you might have some interesting race options next autumn. A friend mine is off to NY tomorrow for the marathon. I’ve got to admit that I’m quite envious but will be rooting for him on Sunday. I was originally going to do it this year but prudence got the better of me.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Cal.. I know a few runners who have done Chicago on a 'long weekend' and they almost all felt that the jet lag may have affected them on race day.  As you say the US marathons can be very expensive, they make Berlin look a bargain at 125 Euros!
  • Wardi, I'd definitely have to go out the week before. I struggle to adjust when I go west - I do much better going east, which is the opposite of most people (I guess it could be because I'm a morning person so going to bed earlier is no problem, whereas staying up later is very tough for me).
    8 miles today - I'm hoping to do a 20 this Sunday. It's quite tricky fitting in recovery, peaking and then tapering between two marathons.
  • How's everyone doing? I set a new parkrun PB of 24:53 yesterday (I've been trying to break 25 all summer, so I'm thrilled I've finally got there) and then got 21 miles done today, so I seem to have recovered from Chester.
  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Wow, Cal, well done on both the parkrun PB and the GFA place, which is something to be proud of, even if you don't end up going for the race (had a look at the price out of curiosity - pretty steep for entry just in itself, without all the associated costs!). I'd definitely be tempted in your shoes, though - guess you could make it into a decent break over there if you went the week before. Seems as if your running is going brilliantly - you must be feeling pretty confident about Valencia now.

    LT, we must have posted at the same time last week! That Valencia half time is just crazy. Wonder if any records will go at the marathon - I seem to remember at least one course record was broken last year (maybe both?), and they've supposedly made the course even quicker this year. Deena Kastor narrates her own book and yes, she does come across really well - I'm also quite envious of where she lives, as it sounds amazing! Hope things go well for your friend in New York today - am going to watch some of it shortly. Also hope your running has gone well this week, now you're past your peak week. 

    Not long to go till the taper! I haven't got the feeling I've had before my previous two marathons where I've been looking forward to the end of the training and not feeling obliged to fit in a long run every weekend (this was 'definitely' going to be my last marathon for a while, just like Valencia last year in fact, but I feel another one coming on next year). I'm going to find it weird not following this training plan, just doing whatever runs I feel like - am surprised how much I've enjoyed being dictated to by the plan! Today's run wasn't massively long at 15 miles (how I'd have laughed at myself a few years ago for typing those words), but was at a relatively quick pace - ran without any breakfast/coffee before or gels, etc. during, in an attempt to make it feel more horrible, but it wasn't too horrendous and the pace felt ok, which was encouraging. I have my last 20 miler next weekend. Still can't decide if target marathon pace feels realistic or not - I guess it's impossible to say at the moment and I'll find out in 4 weeks!
  • Well done Cal, top work and definitely looking like the Chester recovery is complete!

    For what it’s worth, I’d give Chicago a go! Yes it’s expensive but it’s an amazing race and fantastic city.

    Gip - which plan are you doing? Sounds like you’ve found one that works really well for you so that should bode well for race day!

    Longest run in the bag this morning. 2 hours 52 mins on my feet. That’s as long as my training is going to get! Four taper weeks now with a 10k race next weekend. I ran in my race shoes today and my shins are very sore. Think I’ll need to get a few more miles in them before Valencia.

    Is it too early to start talking about the weather... ;-)
  • Gipfel, very positive signs re the way you are feeling. Maybe consistent marathon training, not only on this plan but also over the past few years is beginning to show through. Everything you’ve written makes it sound like you’re feeling strong and are in a good place.

    It’s always a difficult one re deciding whether MP is realistic or not. One thing I’ve noticed is that the key workouts now feel more ‘comfortably hard’ rather than damn hard. Would you say it’s the same for you?

    Congratulations Cal. That sounds like a really good weekends running. A nice combination of speed and endurance work.

    18 miles for me today to round of a pretty good week’s training.

    Had to miss the NY elite race today due to family commitments but have just been catching up. Both sound like really good races. Currently tracking my mate, the app is brilliant. He’s on for a PB right now but the hills of Central Park lie in wait so fingers crossed.
  • Dean NDean N ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Hi All ,
    Cal -congrats on the Parkrun PB ,sounds like your fully recovered well done , nice an easy now and your be flying in  Valancia 

    Gipfel -
    if your enjoying the training sounds like your on track , as you say on the day you will know if your feeling right , interesting that you ran without gels , some people seem to think that’s a good idea others advocate training as you will be racing , me personally I like the stomach to get used tp the gels as I have felt nauseous on some occasions.

    Big Bertie 
    Nice time on the legs ,I do a similar long run of about 2.45 which was yesterday,next week I will drop down to about 19 miles then the serious taper starts.
    no it’s not too early to start discussing the weather , my perfect marathon temp is about 6 c rising to 12 or 13c I cant see it being that cool, any thing over 17c I find too warm .

    LT 
    As you say workouts as a general rule get easier closer to the day however yesterday I pushed myself yesterday  on a bit too hard ,aiming for a physiological boost but probably damaged some muscles in the process and now I am regretting it .

    Enjoy the training everyone ! Before we know it we will be lining up in the start pens.

  • GipfelGipfel ✭✭✭
    Morning all,

    The race number appeared in my inbox today! 3.something weeks is sounding very close. I've been wondering about weather too - temperatures there are still looking quite warm just now, but I remember the same thing last year and I'm pretty sure they will have dropped by the time of the race. Also, it's a couple of weeks later this year - I'd think 12/13 degrees max. wouldn't be unrealistic for the majority of the run. I was over for more than a week last year, and the consistent weather pattern seemed to be surprisingly cool in the mornings, warming up a fair bit around lunchtime/early afternoon, then temperatures significantly dropping again later. It's probably perfect for people finishing in around 3 hours - the warm weather is starting just as you've finished and are ready to enjoy a nice beer in the sunshine! But in any case, a lot of the course is quite shaded, so there were only a couple of sections where it felt uncomfortably warm.

    LT, yes, I agree totally that the workouts are feeling more 'comfortably hard'. My MP run towards the end of last week definitely felt nicer than it had a couple of weeks before. I have noticed that I feel really confident immediately after a run that's gone well, but then after a day or so I start getting doubts again. Felt like that yesterday, then felt much better once I'd completed my interval session. Glad your training is still going well, and hope your friend managed his PB at NY. I hadn't realised it had such a hilly finish!

    Dean, I hope you're feeling better after your hard run and you didn't do too much damage to your muscles. I do agree about getting used to the gels and have been practising with them quite a bit, as I've made the mistake previously of taking on too many and not feeling great! I've discovered now that less = more for me.

    BB, I'm following a plan called FIRST, which is relatively low mileage but dictates 3x relatively tough 'key' runs a week and at least 2x cross-training cardio sessions (have mainly been doing spinning classes for those, which seems to work well - they're the only other thing that gets my heart rate up like running does, but even a tough session is doable between hard runs). I've enjoyed it and followed it pretty much to the letter so far, but we'll see if it does the job! Nice to have your longest run in the bag - hope your shins have recovered now...

    Does anyone else suffer from an obsessive side to their personality? Mine is really making itself felt at the moment, in the form of fixating on this marathon! Struggled to concentrate on work yesterday, and found myself doing completely unnecessary Valencia-related tasks such as making a 'to pack' list and hunting for old preloaded metro passes that almost certainly have no trips left on them (although I think you get a euro or so off for reloading old tickets, so I guess that's something). Then last night I dreamed it was mid-marathon and I was struggling and could only walk, not run. Argh!
  • Got mine too Gipfel.

    Not worrying about the weather just yet. I think the typical temperature rise during the day at that time of year was the main reason for them changing the start time to 8:30 (from 9:00) last year or the year before. They can also get heavy rain there at this time of year. Think I’d prefer the weather like last year rather than a deluge.

    After my “comfortably hard” comment last week, I had a few bad days of running this week that included a 2 x 5 mile MP session where I slipped badly off the pace on the second rep. It coincided with a three day period of real leg stiffness and tiredness. Got through that phase and felt much better yesterday followed by quite a good 20 miler today. Funny how just one good or bad session can sometimes lead to swings in expectation and confidence levels. 

    I can get pretty obsessive too though am quite busy at the moment so that keeps my mind on other things. Some I do have to organise, however, is a late checkout for the hotel.

    Hope everyone has had a good week’s training and is staying healthy and injury free.

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