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How hard should you run ?
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Well, the answer in my case is no; my gait problems are too profound for style solutions (I'm a natural fore foot striker, by the way). My pelvis is strangely alilgned, it means my left foot doesn't strike the ground any where near straight ahead.
I think 80% is too high (because, for example, I think 3hrs will likely always be beyond the reach of people with endomorph body types). But if you drop it to 65%, then I wouldn't be surprised.
But I'd still want evidence, rather than anecdote before commiting myself to the view.
Im a SLOW er ultra er walker
Im off to join the LDWA
seriously i sometimes wonder what would happen if i did 80mpw
I first did a half in 1987, before I'd started running (I just thought I'd do one - go figure - no training at all).
I shot off at 7 minute miling, big mistake. I got to nine miles in about 65 minutes. The next four miles took literally an hour. By the time I got to the end, I was seeing black dots before my eyes. I managed to run the whole way - after a fashion, it was almost running on the spot - until the lap of the track which finished the race, which I had to walk. Needless to say, all the spectators were encouraging me to make a final effort. Also, needless to say, I didn't.
this thread is making me feel really guilty
have we spoken yet of the guilt motivation?
wouldnt be able to run every day then-not that i have this week
But I'm going to run a 10km in May; and then the Berlin marathon.
Hippo - you mentioned the guilt thing on another thread, I think. I understand completely. It's not really rational, I reckon. But I'm the same.
youhave to deliberately run under limits in longer races
I just take it to extremes
I think that point was how this whole thread got started!
i could always try harder
i do a nice line in self sabotage
but thats off topic
Im going to print this thread out to get me off my fat @rse next week
BUT I think the point is, if you can get up to 80 mpw, you have a much larger change of running a quicker marathon, as high mileage, for marathons, correlates with good times. You could say people are self-selecting (to be good marathoners), but on the flip side also they are self-selecting by NOT running 80mpw.
As far as individual races being run to the limit - I think the real outer limit is reached thru training, not how hard you push in a race.
For example, I could run an 800 now and give it as near to 100% as possible, and finish quite distressed YET I know 6 months down the line I would be able to run another 800 at a lesser level of effort and beat that time - purely because of the stage in my training I am right now.
However, with an optimally trained athlete at the peak of their physical fitness, the component that is psychological is much greater.
I don't really think many of us are going to get to the optimal position though, for various reasons, namely life!!
I am sorry to hear that you are injured. I hope you feel better soon.
Move is going OK. Any time in April.
Soc - "I don't really think many of us are going to get to the optimal position though, for various reasons, namely life!!"
How do you know? Perhaps you have reached your optimum and any further training/mileage will be futile. Surely the mature approach to life is to make rational judgements as to what we can realistically achieve. I'm quite happy to be a middle of the pack runner in both races and life. Underachievers unite!
But that way around begs the question; that is, it is only self-selecting if you accept the truth of the proposition that running 80mpw will on average lead to quicker marathons. But that's precisely what's under debate.
My view is that 80mpw will likely lead to injury and illness (though quicker marathons from those able to sustain that kind of training).
`My view is that 80mpw will likely lead to injury and illness'
It can, but not if you take steps to minimise the factors that can add to the miles to bring i+i.
Such as getting good sleep, running easy days easy, not doing speedwork just `because the schedule says so', stretching hydrating etc.
80 mpw is only a couple of 5s 3 times per week, a couple of single 10s, a midweek 13 miler and a 17 mile Sunday run.
So....
By putting in the miles I do (which I still think is just average) it has got me to places that I though I would never have been 5 years ago.
So....
When I look back on my time spent running it will be with satisfaction thinking I gave it my best shot and got some great experiences that I wouldn't have had if I'd been a 30mpw recreational runner.
I won't look back and wish I'd spent more time cleaning the car or mowing the lawn.
"I won't look back and wish I'd spent more time cleaning the car or mowing the lawn."
Yes, I'm sure that's true in your case; you've said nothing to suggest otherwise.
Unfortunately, not all runners have the same attitude...
Have you really not met the type; never happy with their times, always beating themselves up about it, etc? Maybe its a southern thing!
Coincidentally just been reading this thread...
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=767379&page=1
Ah well; whether it is the kind of thing I'm talking about depends on how it impacts on their self-esteem, the way they view their running, that kind of thing. The desire to get better, in and of itself, isn't really the issue.
But one running forum is enough for me - so I'm not reading any more of it!
Most top marathoners run high mileage, most good club runners run high mileage.
It is scary to hear this coming from me! I am not a Lydiard fan - I think for MD (800, 1500) low is the way to go - james mcilroy apparently doesn't run above 30 mins and I know a lot of the women train like sprinters.
guzzle -most people don't get their optimum in terms of running, because it would mean putting everything into running and sacrificing other things, to reach your best possible performance. But for me, that's not really what it's about.