Sub 33 !0k

2

Comments

  • Bryn

    Seeing what you've been up to over the winter etc I'd get some steady running etc under your belt and then try to focus on 1500 and 5K work. Keep some tempo runs and weekly long run in there and I think you'll find a good 10K follows. The fitness you built over the winter won't have vanished.

    It's always easy to keep an area of fitness topped up than build it. (One of Lance Armstrong's coach's golden rules).

    So you should be able to maintain most your strength. But you'll make more progress working on your speed.
  • Okay- first serious attempt at the barrier is going to be this weekend!

    I've been fairly seriously injured for a lot of the last two years- nothing that was major but lots of injuries that seemed minor but ended up lasting 3-6 months.

    Got a bit of fitness in at the start of the year and ran a pretty good 10k at Dorney Lake in 34:30 ubt the conditions were so bad I never really stood a chance. Beat a lot of 33 minutes guys and the only two that beat me are both guys that run about 30 dead and they ran 31:30 so was probably very close. Conditions were the absolute worst I have ever run in. Lashing rain, hail and wind so bad I couldn't even do my warm up into it as it was so hard and cold it was blowing me back.

    Right now I've gotten probably 6 weeks training and 8 weeks running (first two weeks were just 3 easy runs of less than 40 minutes) and haven't really hit the training hard but just relaxed and enjoyed myself. Have raced quite a lot. Did a 10k this weekend over a horrendously hilly and twisty course at about 95% and negative split a 33:26 which bodes extremely well though we did think the course was a little short.

    Now heading to Telford to have a go at it- should it be succesful will post on here and start the next thread!
  • Welcome back, good luck, and I read with interest!
  • Might see you at Telford Bryn.  Noted your comments on another forum about ex-smoking nice guysimage
  • Don't know how it fits in with your plans Bryn but Caythorpe is a very fast 10k course - absolutely pan flat out and back.

  • Best of luck Bryn and BR. Hope you both have a cracking run at Telford.

    Popsider, will you be at Caythorpe. Hoping the wind stays away and conditions are good as, like you said, it's a super-fast course when the weather complies. I'll be having a crack at a sub-33 there, but it might be a bit of a tall order as I'll have stuffed myself over Christmas and drunk a good portion of the EU wine lake, so might not be in tippity top shape on the 28th.

    Hope to see you there Popsider

  • Unlikely for me - I've only just got back to running a few months ago and I'm not really in any kind of form and can't be bothered entering races when I know I've no chance of even getting near a pb.    My aim initially was the turkey trot but I missed that with a bit of a bug  - the target now is the Shelton over 40s category in the Derby Runner XC league where tI can get a competitive fix trying to beat particular individuals without the time meaning anything. 
  • Popsider,
    I totally understand. Think the Derby Runner XC League sounds like something to get your teeth into. Totally agree that one of the great aspects of XC is that it's all about position rather than time. Are you doing the Derby/Notts XC County Champs? If so, I'll see you at Berry Hill on 10th Jan.
  • Thanks guys- look forward to seeing you there BR!

    marmite- part of the reason I'm having a go before Christmas.

    Am just very surprised to be in this sort of shape very quickly - think it must be the races which have brought me on so quickly.

    After this attempt wil be working more on the base as I have the cross-country season coming up...

    Herts County Champs, followed by a local league race then Southerns over 15k for my first senior SoE race which I'm really looking forward to! Not sure if I'm going to try and do nationals as well...
  • Interesting thread.

    Good to see it back .

    Need to dig out my training diaries from 1986  - 1988 !

  • Sadly didn't quite go to plan. Miles splits went something like...

    5:11/10:26/15:48 Half way was 16:24 then 21:23/26:57/32:27 and finished in about 33:30.

    Not a bad run but ended up quite isolated apart from one other guy.

    Splits were therefore (for 6 miles..)
    05:11
    05:15
    05:22
    05:35
    05:34
    05:30

    Picked up a stitch on both sides which is rare for me and didn't feel great today. An okay run on the whole. Realistically having done only 8 weeks or so of 40-50 MPW without any super serious interval sessions would have been pretty amazing to break 33! Hopefully now that I'm edging up to 60 MPW if I can get a solid block in then I can make another attempt.
  • Hi HH,  you looked strong anyhow, and sound pretty philosophical about your result. .  It was I that gave you a shout as you were at at about 5ml and I was going in the opposite direction. 

    Were you using the mile markers for splits, or a Garmin ? just 'cos the relative slowing of my splits using the mile markers were very similar, which makes me wonder if the first few were a little short ?

  • Well - hoping to run a fairly significant PB off relatively minimal training would have been a great performance- as it is I'm still well above what I'd call my usual improvement curve!

    I was using the mile markers. The first mile was quick due to the downhill but from mile 3-4 I reckon was definitely off as I was putting a LOT of effort in then before relaxing again between mile 4 and 5 and obviously times are near identical.

    Many thanks for the shout- did hear it and appreciate it! Which club were you running for? How'd it go in the end?
  • Very impressive time for the mileage, sorry to hear you didn't achieve your target!
  • Sparkhill Harriers, red vest with black hoop. 

     I was disappointed with my time, especially after quick first two miles,  Agree about the first mile, and like you was surprised that my mile 4 was 16 secs slower than mile 3, and the second 5k was apparently over a min slower than the first half, but it may have been me overcooking it at the beginning.  I'd hoped to beat two other women in my age group but failed to do so, so not a good day for me either.

  • HH,
    That's a fine run in any case. Heard from a mate that despite the course being sheltered, it was windy on Sunday, so no doubt that cost you a bit. I've absolutely no doubt you'll be sailing under 33 in the near future.

    TmR,
    Sorry to hear that you weren't happy with your run. 

  • 26:18 today at a 5 mile road race which was extemely windy and a net uphill!

    All the calculators tell me that it's worth probably 33:0x for 10k (one has 32:58!) so shows that I probably am in very near the shape to go under but probably just short!

    Probably.

    Splits today were 5:18, 5:14, 5:13, 5:22 and 5:11 (I think). The 5 mile definitely suited me more than the 10k which is probably indicative of the lack of miles in my legs right now but which is being swiftly corrected.

    Felt totally different to how I did last week- this week felt like I wasn't running too hard (like last week) but I was actually breathing a bit harder (unlike last week) and overall combination was much better and felt much more relaxed. Plus I had people to run with the whole way.

    5:22 was right into the wind so I think that shows the effect of it.

    On the whole very pleased right now.

    Unfortunately have got a slew of XC races now coming up so won't have a chance to go for it for a while. Racing schedule is looking like...

    January 4th: 5 mile XC league race for Striders
    January 11th: Hertfordshire County XC Senior Debut (12,000)
    January 14/15th: RAF Halton XC (6 miles odd)

    The week after that will probably be doing a time trial with some mates to have a go at cracking 9 minutes for 3k!
  • HH : All the best with your Cross Country races in January.

    Trying to find my running diary for 1987/88 ( ! ) which has the most relevant info. Think its up in the loft under my AWs for that period. Now Christmas is over can get the ladders out.

  • Thanks Birymyre - would appreciate seeing someone elses build up with mileage, workouts, different racing distances etc!
  • HH.

    Found some info on the standard sessions that  I was doing back in the winter of  1987/88.

    I was doing 800m/1500m training and this was part of that programme.

    They took place on a Monday and Thursday

    Track sessions were  1 - 1.5M Warm Up/Down.

    Initally 6 x 600m increasing over the winter to 12 x 600m (only 2 reps added in any given block) .

    Another stock session was 4 x 800m, increasing to 8 x 800m.

    Recovery was initially a lap walk /jog and gradually decreased to 200m walk jog as we got fitter.

    I'm shattered just thinking about these sessions today !

  • 12 x 600m! Haha, brilliant. I'm shattered just reading it!
  • Sorry guys,

    The 12 x 600m session I mentioned yesterday, should actually have read 12 x 400m !!!

    Never realised until checking later. No wonder I was shattered just thinking about it.

    The other 4 x 800m reps, increasing to 8 x 800m was correct.

    We did a 'clock session' of 150m, 300m, 450m, 600m, 600m, 450m, 300m, 150m.

    Double checked before posting this time.

  • Had a good session last night which I think shows my fitness...

    8 x 700 averaging 2:07 off of 75 seconds brisk jog recovery. Works out to 2:25 for 800 for each rep and I definitely had one or two more left at that pace as I closed with a 2:01 (about 2:19 for 800).

    Absolutely flying at the moment and in an incredible purple patch. Fair few people I'm running with (who have the necessary experience e.g. Paralympic gold medallist/flag carrier who used to train with Moorcroft, 31:10 10k guy, chap who ran 15:06 for 5000 last year) keep on telling me I'm in closer to 31 dead shape than 33! Obviously ludicrous but very pleased with how I'm running right now.

    Reckon now it's jsut a case of getting into the right race.

    Possibly next goal will just be to dip under 9 minutes for 3k and I have a feeling that after that I might well have the confidence to run sub 33...

    Also know that as long as I can stay injury free...once I'm under 33 I'll be able to push on even more. Just a mental barrier now.

    Birkmyre- would be great to see the paces -especially for the 8 x 800 to compare to my 700s!

    Main thing I think right now that is helping me is having transitioned from sessions with VERY long recoveries (e.g. lap jog/walk in 3 minutes +) a few years back to having 90 second stationary recoveries to running briskly for 40 seconds and being able to go again.

    Oddly enough...I may now need to do a few more sessions with those longer recoveries just to encourage me to push on that extra bit more. Try doing a session at some point of something like 8 x k all under/at 3 minutes with a 400 easy jog, then cut it down eventually to a 200 brisk jog over the course of 6 months to a year.
  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭

    HH - nice pace for those 700 reps. I agree with the shortening recoveries and jogging them - makes it feel more like a 10k-focused session than a 1500/3k session. Plus it means it takes much less time! I nearly broke my 5M PB a few months ago on the track on my own by doing 200m jog recoveries in an interval session.

    Based on your current form (and mine) sounds like you might be ahead of me today. Hopefully the slightly longer distance will suit me more! Sounds to me like you're in about 32:30 shape - definitely sub-33 on a good course and conditions, but not 31 flat (no offence!).

  • HH: No problem, but I'll make double of my pace and recovery before I put them on here !

    All the best, I'll watch with interest.

  • I ran 32.45 about a year ago. Took me ages to get there. Think I may have similar ability to Bryn R.

    Managed to get in 2months of solid training before it. Typical week was 3 session or 2 session and a race. Usually 60-70 miles a week. e.g.

     Tuesday - track session with 30mins of efforts at 10k pace or quicker

    Thursday - fartlek or 5k pace stuff on road e.g. 10 x 2mins

    Saturday - tempo intervals e.g. 6 x 5mins off 1min @ 5.20 pace (Definitely a key session for me) or race.

    Sunday - long run 90min - 2hrs easy pace.

    In between was all easy running (7-8min miling depending how tired I was). I've never got near 9min for 3k and hadn't broken 16 for 5k at the time.

    There are probably different ways of getting there but this is what worked for me.

  • On roasties- Interesting to see your training. Major difference I see between our training is that you're hitting 3 sessions a week whilst I'm only doing 2.

    Main reason for this on my part is that I know I'm still improving rapidly on 2 sessions at the moment and I think 3 might push me over. Recent schedule has seen normally a race and a session but to be honest my sessions have been very easy recently bar that 700 one. But I actualy think the slightly easier sessions are help rather than hinderance as they're preventing me from getting injured.

    Many thanks Birkmyre.

    Padams- Like I said - ludicrous! I'm clearly not in 31 flat shape but not sure I'm a million miles away from sub 32 shape oddly enough.

    Yesterday I really did feel like I was cruising before I fell down for the second time and was just waiting for the start of the second lap before I tried to break away. Unfortunately the fall took more out of me than I realised but could have been a lot worse as at least I was able to finish well unlike Matt whose ankle went completely.

    Looking forward to racing you on the road over the summer! Let me know if you're going for any big PB attempts on fast courses and would like some company!

    Yesterday's race to my mind (8th place Herts County XC 12k in 39:38 so allegedly 33:01 10k pace for 12k of XC!) was definitely a sub 33 performance beating a host of I think a few 31 and some 32 with lots of low 33 10k guys in some cases by 2 minutes (and a lot of 15:30 5k types as well) so I do now just need to find a fast race and convert the performance. Having a big group to run with yesterday really did help me though.
  • hh.

    my training consists of sunday long run 2 hours. monday 10 miles, tuesday session. 8x 1k(1min recov) or 16 x 400 (30 secs recovery). tuesday 10 to 15 miles, thursday 30 min tempo run, friday 10 miles, sat session 6 x 1mile of 2mins.  i try and do 25 min jog most mornings aswell. 

    main point to this though is train with a group as its easier, and my sessions are done at races pace. the key session for me is the tempo run which i cover 6 miles in 30 mins. i did this roughly for a 12 week period with races put in there and managed to run pretty fast of it. it did help that i had 3weeks in south africa in that.

  • Thanks Jason- is good to see your training as you're at such a higher level. Has something been up this year as whilst your performances are still great they're a little bit short of your 70th place at the World Cross which has to be your best run ever I'd have thought?

    Interesting to see your log. My training week right now (admittedly this is a big week for me- up about 10 miles from what I might call my "usual" week) comprises...

    Monday: 75 easy/steady (so ~9 miles)
    Tuesday:AM V02 max session, probably quite close to your 8 x 1k which I did myself a few weeks back with 15 mins warm up and down.
    PM 40 easy
    Wednesday: AM 60 easy/steady
    PM 40 easy
    Thursday: 20 easy/30 tempo/20 easy
    Friday: Rest
    Sat: 80 steady inc. 12 x strides of 20 secs (every 5 mins)
    Sun: 1:45 long run

    With a more typical week probably dropping the easy runs on Tuesday and Wednesday and only 1:30 on the Sunday.

    This is bringing me down in ability fairly quickly. In the 4 months since I was able to start training again (first month ~30-35mpw, second 45-50, third 55-60, this one 65-70), my 10k time has gone down from I reckon around 36/37 minutes to right now 32:mid I reckon...

    Differences between mine and your schedules seem to be mainly that you include a fairly hard session on the Saturday which I'm not at the moment. I think that after this current block when I start transitioning for track and my tuesdays or thursdays become slightly shorter and sharper then a longer Saturday session will be good.

    In the past a really good session I did was 6 x 6:40 (2k) with a minutes recovery. Think that will be a likely reintroduction at somepoint. Done over XC though rather than a track.
  • last year has been hard really, as i have concentrated on work(pays the morgage.). Got to where i wanted to be, which now means i get to concentrate on running again alot more, So will be racing alot more after a few weeks training.  Looking at your training looks like you are doing the right things and you will soon have to change this thread to sub 32.   good luck and keep up the hard work   
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