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POSE Method of running?
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Chaos is a better one to talk to as he has been to a clinic...
The downhill start that I mentioned yesterday has been a huge help to me. Gets the cadence up nicely. I am realising that I may need to run routes that are less hilly. My muscles need to be more accustomed to Pose before I can do it on hilly routes. The steep downhills require a cadence that I cannot manage and the ups make me work too hard to maintain Pose. Slight downs amd ups are perfect though for learning.
Come on folks! Let's all post our tips to this thread as we learn...
There are some coaches who regularly post on the Posetech Message Board so I'd suggest reading a few of the conversation threads there as well. They come up with some very useful tips.
There are two small hills and I managed to do them for the first time with Pose (up and down) and without the sensation that Pantman mentioned of accelerating too much on the downhill.
Btw it was an absolutely beautiful morning here in N.Italy. The sun was coming up over the Appenine mountains, not a cloud in the sky, temperature around 15°c, saw some hares playing in the fields and some "nutrie" (rat like creature, big as a cat - don't know the word in English) swimming in the canals. Just felt great to be alive.
Only negative thing about this technique is the name. I just can't get round to defining myself as a poser. Spent all my life trying to avoid that. : )
I will try in the near future to purchase either the DVD or the book and let you know how things are working for me...
First of all I am a second time around newbie, gave up running 12 years ago and am trying to come back to it. Its been a nightmare, never had these problems before
I pronate for which I am using Asics GT 2070 and I am also a natural fore-foot runner. I dont want to change my running style, as I understand this gives me more speed, problem number 1, I am continually trying to slow down
i started re-running about 3 months ago, and was making reasonable progress, untill i started having tightness in the ham-strings. Followed by a chronic cramp that was agony, lasting for about 20 minutes in the centre of my left calf, this happened in bed one night on a day when I hadnt run. The following day, I couldnt even put my foot flat on the floor
At the moment I cant run past the five minute stage, due to pain in both my calves, so serious failure to progress. The pain starts in the lower calf and radiates up to the mid-calf region - I'm not aware of any problem with the achiles
Can anybody shed any light on this, as I am getting really fed-up and de-motivated
Thank you, and thank you Pantman for pointing me in the direction of this thread
Possibly a muscle tear in the calves? I got this after doing far too much too soon with bad technique (as mentioned earlier in this thread). A sports massage therapist cured it in a couple of 30 minute sessions using a technique called "cross-frictions". You may also want to work on both strengthening and stretching those hamstrings as I think you've already sussed.
The best stretches I have found are at Gerard Hartmanns website (Paulas physio) - http://www.hartmann-international.com/001articles/articles.htm. Good luck!
I also pronate and am still using orthotics while using Pose technique. Haven't summed up the courage to dispose of them yet, but I am using more flexible shoes. Next step is very flexible shoes.
You don't say if your're heavy DDP - if you are you'll probably have to work hard on strengthening your calves.
I've been pulling my hair out with this, experience tells me I shouldnt be having these problems, and the ridiculous thing about it all is, as an ex-runner I know I can run
I have got to the point tho where I've been thinking about calling it a day, and accepting the fact that I've left it too late to stage a comeback
FM, I'm in my mid-forties and a bit overweight, i need to lose about 10lbs, but thats all - I was initially progressing very quickly, maybe in hindsight too quickly
I'm now going to read this thread completelym check out forefoot runners thread on Gear and re-post - also try and locate a sports massage therapist
You probably need to work some on your core strength and stretching for flexibility but if you work on it you can get back to running well and enjoyably - probably not back to championship standard though :-)
I've been thinking about doing some swimming as well FM, to exercise myself without the stress of running
Don't forget the all important back and abdominal muscles which stabilise your body when running. In fact all upper body muscles help in some way - shoulders, arms. Maybe only pectorals don't help too much.
Take it slowly and you'll be fine. The basic muscles technique and muscles are probably there but you have to rediscover them. Also remember that ligaments, tendons etc are slower to develop and strengthen than muscles.
Good luck and good running
1) I did a lot of achilles/calf strengthening exercises before switching to Pose - Walt SAS exercise to be precise. Chaos may post the link for you or else you can look back at the Achilles Woe thread in Injury. (Walt also has some ITB exercises that are good for Pose too - link Chaos?)
2) I went barefoot for 2-3 weeks. Avoided wearing anything and if I had to then flat sandals only. This reulted in cramps when I tried to swim and all sorts - my feet hadn't been used properly for over a decade!
When I tried to run, after learning to use my feet again, I immediately felt "confined" by my orthotics, So I stopped (on the treadmill) and took them out - immediately better. But I still felt "confined" - unable to use my feet as I had been learning to. The support in my shoes. So I took them off! 5 min on the 'mill in socks - bad blisters but freedom of movement. Now if I use a shoe with ANY support my legs can feel it. Interestingly, the shin splints that were the last straw and made me take the Pose plunge have dissipated running in racers, but when I wear support shoes (Asics 2070 too BTW) even with no orthotics, I can feel them return - weird, huh!
My advice:
1) Barefoot whenever possible - at home, at work even, in the car...
2) When you have to go out wear "minimalist" shoes. I got a pair of Teva Protons - wetsuit shoes, sort of - like walking barefoot but with a thicker sole on your foot.
3)Run only in racing shoes - avoid anything with medial supports or similar.
4) Take it easy - very short runs with very gradual increases - this is asking a your feet and body to adapt a lot more than you realise.
5) Learn Pose properly - forefoot running can cause injuries too if done badly. Do the drills DAILY!
Why the "cold turkey" approach - because you can't learn to do it, unless you're doing it! And shoes with heels (like 2070s) prevent you from running properly. Pose running is NOT up on your toes - you land on the balls of your feet... JUST! the heel is as close to the ground as it can be without touching - almost flat footed. Heels in 95% of running shoes make that impossible - full stop! You either land on the heel or else (and THIS, I believe, is your problem) you have to get up on the toes more to keep off the heel. To acheive this your muscle is contracting BEFORE you land - NOT good.
The Pose method says to "fire and forget" - if the foot is lifted up correctly and the body position is right, then gravity will bring the foot down in the right place - no effort needed. In fact, quite the opposite - most of us find that we have to work at RELAXING the ankle at the point of contact. But NEVER land with pointed toes...
A long post, even for me, and it is VERY late so apologies for typing errors, but I hope this is helpful to you.
As a result of what I've found out in the last 24 hours on this thread, I have decided on the following action
1. See a physio, I'm going to contact a local running club to see if they can reccomend anybody, I need to sort out any underlying injuries in my calves
2. Go to a running shop and get a pair of shoes that are less built up than the ones I am currently using
3. Exercise my calves more frequently
4. Buy a flatter pair of shoes for general use, work, social etc - I am already flatfooting it when at home, to stretch everything out
5. Crosstrain untill I can get to see a physio, I'm already doing 2 - 4 mile walks a couple of times a week, I'm going to increase this, I walk on the heel of my foot by the way, and include some swimming to help strenghthen muscles generally
Your posts are being incredibly helpfull, as it looks like I'm going to be following in your footsteps to some extent. You may be an experienced runner which I obviously am not. Never likely to be unless I can sort this out. I obviously need to stretch muscles and tendons, stop trying to run on my heels, which isnt working, slow down, my tendency is to run too fast, and chill out a bit
Thank you
I have found out that I'm a forefoot runner so I was very interested to hear about this Pose stuff. I did suffer badly from stiff calves during the first 2 months but this has gradually disappeared after I reduced my mileage and then gradually increased it again. I'm still not quite sure what the difference is between forefoot (at least my forefoot style) and Pose but I intend to consciously follow the Pose guidelines for the next week. I'll keep you posted on my experiences. By the way I run in NB764s and NB765s, which have low profile heels, on gravel trails in very hilly country.
Paula runs perfect Pose style - I checked and I double checked - and it's TRUE!!!
Watch the sprint finish when she realises she might get the WR - she does not reach forward with the thighs at all - just lifts her foot under her hips. WOW!
Can somebody check this for me?
[ruffles Pantie's hair]
Just remember that actually TRYING to land forefoot WILL strain the calves. It is by lifting the foot correctly (i.e. behind you, under the hip, with hamstring only) and keeping body position right (vertically upright, very SLIGHT lean from the ankle, no bending at the hips) that allows the foot to fall down under the weight of gravity into the right position. If you have shoes with heels (Air, gel, support, etc.) you may HAVE to land flatfooted as the shoe prevents you from landing on the ball of your foot.
The main thing for your back is to ensure that the foot does not land in front of you. I was SO impressed watching snippets of Paula at GNR sprinting for a WR and STILL not reaching her legs in front of her - perfect Pose running!
Congrats to you, Sassie. Read the Pose Forum on their site and buy the book and DVD - it sounds to me like you won't regret it. (BTW - if you contact a UK Pose Coach by e-mail [list on site] they may have copies of book and dvd to save on postage costs from US).
GO SASSIE!!!!!!
I've had bother with PF and my achilles for what seems like a zillion years and I've never been able to believe that it's ALL coming from my tight calf muscles. Which recently I've been having a hard accepting that I have in the first place - I'm naturally very flexible, way more so than my loved one who never has any sort of bother with his feet or achilles, and he has incredibly flat feet. Though admittedly his dorsa flexion is impressive.
This business of walking around barefoot has me somewhat confused. I was on holiday recently and so spent all my days in weeny flip-flops. At the end of the day I was feeling like my ankles and the tops of my feet were sore. But maybe it was because they were actually working for a change? Normally I spend my life in cushioned shoes and trail shoes - I'm not a high-heeled kind of a gal. I recently bought a pair of NB 765s and found that I was experiencing the same sort of tired ankle feeling that I'd had in my flip-flops, albeit to a much lesser extent. I have to say that this has put me off them, cos I'm worried that I'm doing myself damage. But, maybe, is this just that my feet are now free to move a bit better? I've been wearing pretty rigid NB855s, which are bluddy chunky shoes! And rather heavy too.
Sorry - I know I'm rambling now! There's a lot to think about here. I've been printing out some of the useful messages to read and digest at my leisure. Thanks so much for the postings. Sad to say, I've crashed the expensive color laserjet with Gordon Pirie's book! Though I'm hopeful I won't be sacked......
BTW, TwoDogs - to answer your question from a week or so ago, I saw a podiatrist who said that I don't need orthotics and that my feet are fine. Should I trust them?!?!?!?!?
Sassie - how wonderful that you've been able to run again! I'm really pleased for you. Long may it continue!
(crivvens, that was a long one).
"I recently bought a pair of NB 765s and found that I was experiencing the same sort of tired ankle feeling... maybe, is this just that my feet are now free to move a bit better?" ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Take the transition easy - lots of parts of feet, ankles and legs being used that have been prevented from being used in the past. And DO THE DRILLS!!!! Will strengthen you up so you can run more sooner...