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POSE Method of running?
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See you Saturday?
I am wondering if this POSE thing is suitable for beginners? I am really interested, and have been reading the thread for a while, but you seem to be very serious runners. I just run for fun, have been doing so for about 8 months, and haven't been injured yet, but I am worried I will be, people (especially my mum!) are always going on about how I'll ruin my knees etc. So I was looking at this and wondering if I should try it.
It does make a lot of sense to me as described above, and I kind of experimented a bit the other day. It felt pretty good, an I did speed up! But do I really really have to buy racing shoes? (I know you will say yes, but I'm scared of buying them - I've only ever been in 2 races, and I'm not fast, feel running shop people will laugh at me).
Should I try? What do you think?
if you are a beginner it is probably easier to change your style than if you´ve being running for years.
I´m a relative running beginner - got back into sports this year. What I´ve found is that I am a fore foot runner who was trying to run differently because the way the shoes were designed. I assumed I was running wrong.
I am not a full poser but try to integrate those elements that make sense, while running naturally relaxed and easy. As I have a long term knee injury I want to run efficiently and as "light" as poss. Fore foot, high cadence and concentrating on lifting feet have helped me through an injury free year.
You dont have to buy racing shoes. I use Mizuno Mercry III and am happy with them. I am probably not full pose - maybe half way there - but I feel its right for me
Brain O is spot on - if you are new to running you do not have the years of bad habits to unlearn - without doubt the biggest hindrance to posing properly.
It'll be easier do it 100% right now than at any future date.
Some of us pretty serious about running, but Pose really is good for all.
Let us know about your progress.
Thanks for the encouragement!
I'll email about meeting up for another run (am flying up to Loch Ness this weekend) - a session on grass might be good.
Looking good for London to Brighton...
I ran almost the whole 10K using POSE and made some very interesting observations.
There seems to be the same sort of action and reaction as when swimming crawl, i.e. you tense the muscles in your arms for the underwater pull and then relax them completely for the overarm (over the water) part. I noticed the same when running POSE style - in order for my foot to land properly, I had to completely relax my leg and ankle otherwise I found myself landing on my toes which made the pick up harder. Sometimes I would fall back to my old forefoot style and then would consciously have to remember to relax my leg and ankle. I started to repeat rhythmically to myself , almost like a mantra - "tense, relax, tense, relax". It sounds to a bit balmy but it seemed to work.
Another thing I found positive was a feeling of almost positive forward traction when picking up the foot directly upwards. I found leaning slightly forward helped this.
I'll have to do a few more runs, especially uphill on gravel tracks to be really able judge this fully but all in all quite astounding.
Progress for me to report I think
I got myself out of the girlie shoes and havent worm anything but trainers, flat shoes and bare feet for more than a week - that should stretch my calves
I went out this evening and decided I was only going to fore-foot strike, which is my natural style - I've been trying to convert to heel striking up untill now. I was able to run a bit further than I've been able to for more than a month now, we're talking a couple of extra minutes, not miles, here. But I felt a lot more comfortable, and my overall posture felt much more relaxed
I know this is going to be a long road I'm treading, but it feels like I might be making some progress now
Thanks to this thread
Alpine Pizza - you have got this thing!!! That's exactly what it's supposed to be like. Great news! I have found uphill running the hardest to adapt to - don't expect too much too soon.
Would be interested to know if times/HR are showing improvement...
Went for my second Pose run this morning and managed twenty minutes. Plodded occasionally when my calves were shouting, but mainly Posing. I go SO much faster! I was really quite out of breath by the end. And hardly any back pain. Pantman, I think this thread may have saved my life!
So i'm looking forward to start the drills so i start practicing pose entirely.
I have also found that with much cushioned shoes it's IMPOSSIBLE to pose! It looks like more bounding than running.
Waiting more comments from you though!
just signing back in (from the extremely hot Gulf) after a few days out. I just wanted to update on my pose running to hopefully stimulate.
As I posted earlier I ran a marathon on 14th September with pose technique and found that the following week instead of being injured and unable to run I was actually able to run well and fast. Over the weekend I thought that I would take that further and on Sunday entered a 16k race. Again very hot and humid conditions but the race went absolutely great. Still using pose technique I got round the course in under 1h 10' - that's less than 4' 30" per Kilometer (the same as my PB in half marathon - 1h 34') but this has been done one week after having run a marathon. I can't believe it! Sunday afternoon my legs were a little tired but by Monday morning I was feeling great again and could have gone for a run, except I had to get up early to catch a plane.
I ran a little on Tuesday evening on a treadmill (too hot outside) and the legs felt great.
No doubt about it - for me Pose is working and working great.
Can't wait till mid October when I have another half marathon but with rested legs (only training till then). I'm definitely going for a new PB.
Keep spreading the gospel pantman.
Sounds good for Hermes and Firemonkey too. Keep it up guys and lets keep updating each other - it also "boings" the thread and the more peopl see it the more likely they are to do it...
As for me, I just realised I am now running 60 miles a week and feel great. Done 70mpw once (for 1 week) and have only ever done 50mpw for any extended period. Shin splints continue to dissipate and feeling great!
I find now that I do not have to watch out for injuries, but for tired Pose muscles - when I find it difficult to lift the heel properly due to tired hams & hips. Great fun though.
With this and base training, everything is looking sweet...
The basic question is: will POSE force the shoe manufacturers to rethink their product design?
annajo - have you read the thread in the general section on the Pose style of running? I'd like to hear your opinion regarding the type of shoe for forefoot over-pronaters. Some people are suggesting that stability shoes for forefoot runners are superfluous, i.e. you don't need pronation control if you only running on your forefoot. Would you agree with this?
I would say its more of a case that the shoe doesn't exist that controls forefoot pronation only(used to exist though-the Adidas Ozweego). Therefore stability shoes will always control rearfoot pronation as well, which might be too much for forefoot strikers.
annajo's response:
However, as in Fin's partner's case, and also in the case of other people I know, often when people get tired or when people do longer runs, they find that they heelstrike more, so then might need the stability shoe if they overpronate on heelstrike.
possibly (though this is a theory of mine that is a bit dodgy) because forefoot strikers spend less time with their feet in contact with the ground than heel strikers, the whole aspect of pronation control becomes more specialised and shoe manufacturers feel it isn't really worth catering for what they see as a minority?
I would say its more of a case that the shoe doesn't exist that controls forefoot pronation only(used to exist though-the Adidas Ozweego). Therefore stability shoes will always control rearfoot pronation as well, which might be too much for forefoot strikers.
However, as in Fin's partner's case, and also in the case of other people I know, often when people get tired or when people do longer runs, they find that they heelstrike more, so then might need the stability shoe if they overpronate on heelstrike.
possibly (though this is a theory of mine that is a bit dodgy) because forefoot strikers spend less time with their feet in contact with the ground than heel strikers, the whole aspect of pronation control becomes more specialised and shoe manufacturers feel it isn't really worth catering for what they see as a minority?
I personally believe that Pose will be HUGE in about 10 years. It is then we will see a shift in shoe design.
There are many people out there who believe that Nike et al will have lawsuits coming their way (along similar lines to the tobaccos giants) from aging, arthritic ex-runners...
I repeated a session that I'd done quite some time ago and fully expected to be much slower because I've had injuries and personal things to contend with over the past 5-6 weeks and so haven't been training regularly. Anyway, off I went, trying out the simple rudiments of the Pose technique because I don't know all the ins and outs yet. I concentrated on lifting my feet rather than extending forward and keeping my heels just off the ground.
End result? One whole minute off my times from the last session. And that was running by myself, when last time I was competing with a training partner. I'm completely delighted and looking forward to my next session when I can try it all again!
Just to iterate on Pantman's point about shoes. There will be very little scuffing or wear on the sole once you have the technique sorted and there is absolutely no forward or backward motion of the sole relative to the ground. This was very well illustrated by some footage that Dr Romanov had of him running (quite fast) on an ice rink. Try anything else and you'd be flat on your face/derriere!
Alpine Pizza - what did you think of my comments about any anti-pronation stuff in the forefoot as likely to throw you out of kilter and cause more problems? I understand over-pronation to be an issue of weak ankles/calves collapsing when you land on your heel/mid-foot. Since you are no longer doing this with Pose, I don't see how something in the sole of your shoe is going to help. By way of an example Pantman has been able to stop using his orthotics. You might want to check out the original "Rid of Orthotics by Strengthening Calves" thread
I was just about to give up, again, but can now see light at the end of the tunnel
I have a heavy cold at the moment, so shouldnt really be running, but thought I'd go for a walk instead - while walking I decided to TRY and run, I got past the point where I have been experiencing pain, but did stop shortly after that point, no pain, as I was finding it dificult, due to the cold
Once I feel well again, I think I may be able to slowly add distance
its very liberating running forefoot which is my natural style, rather than trying to change it to heel-striking
Any thoughts greatly appreciated
I'm not quite sure how it works - is it really a lighter contact (seems odd - I weight the same, etc) or is it just a quicker contact, in which case the impact might be more intense - all compressed into a shorter period of time.
I think I'm going to have to try it! I think that's another book to buy this weekend
Even if there's less breaking, you still need to push yourself forward quite a lot, and if you're landing on the ball of the foot it must go through there.
There's a lengthy technical discussion on this point of gravity doing the work on the Posetech forums "Gravity does the work?" - if you can stay awake while wading through it!
The "impact" in pose running, when done correctly, is incredibly light because:
1) There is no push or drive and so the landing phase (when the foot is contact with the ground) is far less
2) The foot is not striking the ground, or even being placed, but simply falling under the weight of gravity.
3) The foot leaves the ground upwards - no scraping, pushing or pressure
4) Part of the energy in lifting the foot is done by muscle elasticity (i.e. acting like a spring) so the velocity of the foot on descent (energy from gravity) is also used to lift the foot back up!
All that said, bad pose (i.e. what you do while still learning it!) may hurt the toe - you will need to progress slowly and do those drills that cause no pain. But in the long run, Pose technique can only help.