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Well done on the sub 3. You did well doing that off 35mpw with your injury affected build up. Shows there could be a lot more to come in the next year. I would say just try and be consistent by running more days. Maybe 6 a week and one rest day but building up slowly to distance and maybe following a structured training programme if you are tergatting VLM again. Stick around as there are a lot of experienced marathoners in here.
LS21: Here's a quick scan back at 2010/11 races with HR.
7th March 2010 Bath HM: av 179bpm(90%) 1:21:51 (6.12m/m)
25th April 2010 VLM: av 176bpm (89%) 2:59:57 (6.52m/m)
6th June 2010 Poole 10k: av 181bpm (91%) 38:13 (6.08m/m)
11th July 2010 New Forest 10mi: av 177bpm (89%) (6.17m/m v.hot day).
1st Aug 2010 Stur HM: av 174bpm(88%) (6.19m/m)
5th Sep 2010 Bristol HM: av 176bpm(89%) (6.07m/m)
19 Sep 2010 Littledown 5mi: av 178bpm(90%) (5.50m/m)
17th Oct 2010 Charity 10K: av 180bpm(91%) 38:47 (course measured to long)
24th Oct 2010 GSR 10mi: av 178bpm (90%) 1:00:15 (6.02m/m)
12th Dec 2010 Christchurch 10k: av 179bpm(90%) 36:09 (5.48m/m)
6th Mar 2011 Bath HM: av 178(90%) 1:18:11 (5.58m/m)
2nd April 2011 Parkrun 5K: av 178(90%) 17:44 (5.42)
17 April 2011 VLM: av 171(86%) 2:56:24 (6.44m/m)
I'm working with a RHR of 34 and MHR of 195.
Only meant to look at a couple but got carried away as I noticed the very small range between rates for races. All except VLM 11 were even paced runs.
CharlieW - I was giving him some last minute advice
Thanks for posting it, I've had quite a few people saying they saw me at the start - I haven't seen it.
17.5M miles this morning with a very happy sub-220 runner! Glorious morning, legs didn't want to go too fast.
My thinking at the moment is to target VLM again next year (it's a 10 min walk to the start line for me so I don't really have an excuse not to!) In the build up my intention is to run some 10ks and probably a couple of half marathons in the autumn in a bid to increase my leg speed and running efficiency.
I get the impression that the key to it all is patience... something I'm going to have to get better at as in the past I think I've built up too quickly before the base was there (hence all the injury problems no doubt).
JH 1 - with regard to my training at the moment in order to transition from my 3-4 runs to 6 a week do you think it would be more sensible to start off by keeping the total mileage around the same for starters but going straight to 6 shorter runs or to keep my current mileage and gradually try to drop in the additional runs and up the distance I cover in those? At the moment for me a typical week would be something like two 10 milers and then a 15 at the weekend or three 6-7 milers and then the 15.
OS, I'm just about to pass my 34th birthday and whilst I ran a couple of marathons in my 20s, these were very much isolated events (surrounded by years of being a bit of a bloater) and I've only really be running seriously since the middle of 2009 and feel like I've got a fair few marathons left in my legs.
Hi Jonny; I agree you're doing well on limited training at present, which suggests you might be able to go a fair bit quicker if you get some consistent training in (maybe 2:50 should be your next target?).
OS is right that I got a lot quicker, but I was a one-trick pony -- I realised my running style was inefficient (my cadence was too high), and made a step improvement by fixing that which (sadly) I won't be able to repeat!
And as OS says I'm a fairly moderate mileage guy; I did manage to average ~55 miles/week for a while in the most recent campaign, up from more like ~40 in previous attempts (but with some bigger and smaller weeks in that). But I felt I'd overdone it after a while, probably because my build-up was too long (started at Christmas). If you're not going to do too much running volume, then you need to focus on at least doing the key sessions, which I think are:
o a proper long run every week, sometimes 'progressive' (i.e. working up to race pace or thereabouts at least for a few miles near the end), and I like to have a few of 25M plus rather than stopping at 20 or 22.
o a decent mid-week run of say 12-14M with some hard running in it (tempo and/or intervals).
Some people thrive on very high mileage with little fast running, others on fewer but harder miles, and you might naturally fit one or other pattern or somewhere in between.
DanA fabulous news! Delighted you are back.
Joolska looking good for you too: excellent.
MrB that sounds to me like fatigue/glycogen depletion. That's exactly like one of my training runs which was a carb-depletion. Just my thoughts.
FR I'll share some thoughts when I'm back on a computer. Haven't had return to training instructions yet but a week off was the first idea.
Coro you are amazing.
Anyway just did my first run: 5 miles in the Devon hills @8mm. Felt really good in myself though left calf is still a bit sore so took it easy and lots of stretches: something I forgot last Sunday afterwards.
JonnyMo - well done in London last weekend
I think you're on the nose when you mention patience. It's also about finding targets in running to motivate you and sounds like you're keen on giving London another good crack off the back of this one. Sounds like there's a lot more time to come off too! The last few marathons I ran and running in general were totally dominated by getting under 3 hours. I need a change in focus and think I've found it with shorter distances. I need to step back down to step back up but the next marathon will be about a good performance as opposed to nailing a specific time.
Mr B - yeah thats cool, so do I just email the race director with my/your details in relation to the swap? I'm putting up the price a bit mind
Haha just joking, lol I went for Abo for the reason you mentioned, a bit more low key. Despite the slight disappointment in race time in London , I loved the whole atmosphere of the event this time. That said I know for a fact I race better in smaller numbers where you get into groups and can focus more, Amsterdam was a bit like that and its the reason I'll probably do somewhere like Barca next March aside from the change of scenery. Horses for courses and all that though.
Coro - 17.5m, jesus
30 mins nice easy running and thankfully no hangover from yesterdays afternoon boozing. No aches or injuries to report either which is good!
I did the Hackney Marshes park run in 16.18 and just won the race.
Here is a link to the splits and the course
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/sw/SIK7XXDSB7Z5XEK3T2K367HOUA
My plan has me down for a 50 mile training run today. Might struggle out for 5 instead later. Aaaarrgghhh...
1km 3.16 (3.16)
2km 3.08 (6.23)
3km 3.11 (9.34)
4km 3.23 (12.58)
5km 3.21 (16.19)
I more or less managed to miss the story of Boston this year, with a 2 03 finish. Very well written up here. http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/04/20302-3-to-4-min-what-effect-did-wind.html#disqus_thread.
Mr Boat - Your VLM hr from 2010 was pretty high based on only 1bpm below previous half. Did you split fairly even that day? On Sunday, if I had looked at my hr with any sense (as it was fairly high by 15/16m) I would of backed off but I didn't and proved I could carry on at the same pace. You have to go with how you feel sometimes which doesn't always work out especially in a marathon.
JonnyMo - Of my limited experience I would increase your miles nearer the time but not start too early as can get a bit stale doing too much for too long. Worth keeping up a medium long run at the weekends though. Enjoy the summer with some 10k/10m races to keep the pecker up. I do multisport so have other things to keep my interest as normally suffer with post mara blues.
Gawd - Looks like you tailed off towards the end unless it's a harder 2nd half 5k. Marathon still in the legs?
.
Double post
First KM at 3.20 then tailed off for the next 2kms before getting steady again. Came second.
OW swim first and a lack of warmup probably didn't help but this was a useful where are we workout on a twisty multi terrain course.
Mile 1 is fast on tarmac. Mile 2 is slower on grass. Mile 3 is 50% on grass, then on tarmac. All pancake flat.
Gobi: so where are you then? Happy with the 5k speed? Presumably your training is 90% bike at the moment as you adjust from ultra training to the Alp d'Huez tri?
I've got a 112k bike ride on Monday. Hoping for the lovely weather to ease off a tiny bit before then.
MrB: Looking at your HR from races, they all look consistent until VLM last week. You got fitter last summer, eased off a bit after the GSR, then picked it up.
I suspect if you had held on for 2:45 or aimed for 2:50 from the off, you'd have maintained a steadily increasing HR (due to heat stress) to the finish and ended up not a million miles off last year's result HR-wise. Instead, as you slowed down, your HR dropped, causing the difference. My guess is that if you compared the HR graph for the two races, you'd find that this year you started about the same, climbed a tad higher than last year from 5-10 miles, then the line would drop, falling well below from 20 miles on.
As a comparison, here is my HR data from 2009 (2:51) and this year (3:06)
A bit small, but you can see the difference.
2008 (2:59). My highest average HR, but an easy first half meant I didn't overheat and held it to the finish.
2009 (2:51) An even easier start, and easing off at 8 miles meant I stayed low for a long time.
2010 (3:07): A too-hard start meant I went wrong at 18 miles.
2011 (3:06) Snap. But my better training meant I lasted until 22 miles before I snapped.
Well done Parkrunners. GAWD and Hilly on wins, Gobi for a second despite going "bang" and BR for getting around the week after a very good marathon.
Thanks for congrats all - nice to have a race and feel strong. Tom- From past experience not much faster than 56/57 after quite a bit of speedwork. If I spent a season working at it I reckon a 55 might be doable.
MM- Nice session - it happens like that sometimes with k reps with a very slow first one (often feeling as hard or harder than the rest!) - something that's been making me think potentially quite intense warm-ups for shorter races are a good idea so you're starting the second rep as it were when you're at the start line.
Tom (again)- I think the strong aerobic pace bit is certainly more important than I've ever given it credit for - having upped the pace of my runs substantially I'm feeling a lot stronger than I was before off a lot less mileage. That said the large number of slow miles did leave me strong as an ox and able to run close to 6mm whilst still being very aerobic.
Abo - I tried to enter about a week after filled up. Explained I was looking to run 2:25ish and wanted to do it at a British marathon. Not interested at all. Really gets me annoyed when races just show a complete ambivalence to club runners trying to compete at a decent level. Sure I could arrange a transfer somehow but if they can't be bothered to support British runners I'm just going to Europe and will be vocally advising other runners to do the same or run different marathons. Very poor show. If London with 30,000 odd can do it why can't abingdon?!
Hope you're all recovering. Did session on the grass with the SEO today - 6 x 5 minutes off 1 minute, she was running 5:45-50mm so paced her round for a nice aerobic session. Then after had 4 x 180m where I ran hard and clocked 26s (200 equiv ~29s) but was very tough moving body that fast. She's just off to physio then a recovery run!
Nice Parkrunning going on so soon after the marathon; nice win Hilly and GAWD. There's no way I could've done anything under 7m/m.
MtR: Thanks for the indepth reply. I like the graph (it opens up large if you click it) and may be able to do a comparison if I learn how to play with Sportracks (I'll try it). The thing I'm not sure about is that my HR for Marathon is only a few beats different to that for 10K.
Just checked my 5K split positions: between 5k and 25k I gained 160 places and between 25k and the finish I lost 178 places...not a good feeling (can you tell I've got a bit of time on my hands at work today).