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MrB – moving on sounds good, but you learn a lot about yourself on the bad days so its not all bad. I only started off a lot easy this time cos I’ve struggled home for the previous 2 yrs, although starting the campaign later seemed to work well for me. Although its important to remember (like CRAB pointed out) that I don’t just run. The club cricket is done in 2 yr age groups so all my U9s are now U11s and the manager from last yr is still there, but he asked me to co-manage it, so I did. Hopefully some of my younger ones will surprise him a bit. Next yr all of my younger ones will be the oldest in the age group and we should have a very good team again.
Gobi – top biking there
MtR – the Planet X sounds good, as does the fact that the bike legs are still strong. I don’t like riding or running with sunglasses on.
60min of turbo intervals bagged, didn’t feel great though. Hope I dont catch the bug my eldest had, and I have an ear I still cant hear out of since I went in the pool at the IoW.
Got a running race next week – first one of this yrs monthly 5K midweek series. I’ll see how this years times compare with last yrs, I had best make sure I turbo and swim before all of em to make it feel the same. Still havnt run since VLM yet though, I had best get to it.
Morning all,
Hope you've had a good weekend. The BBQ has been abused over the last 4 days, I think we managed to rack up 6 BBQ's including one breakfast.
Tom - Thanks for the book recommendations. Will give Running formula a go. On the subject of running books I recently read "The Looniness of the Long distance Runner". You certainly won't get any tips from it but it's very funny.
Sounds like there's a lot of you back on your bikes. It's something I've considered - Maybe I should look into my cycle to work scheme and get something better than the rust bucket I have in the garage.
I'm quite horribly enjoying reading some of the ballot madness going on this year. My OH was up at 2am to enter! Utter madness.
29 miles done over the weekend including a few at the "new" marathon pace. A death march around Edinburgh could be on. Ho hum.
'Eck, marmite's Casanova recommendation is only 8 USD, including P&P. Sounds like value. Thanks for that.
A few miles on each of Saturday and yesterday here, in between some long-overdue DIY stuff (fair enough, really). Still pretty heavy quads. So just plodding along listening to Marathon Talk - which informed me that Nell went on to PB last week, after my (clearly inspirational) words at 6 miles in.
Hi all. 1st day back at work since I left on the Thurs pre London, so depression abounds, just check the GFA info on the website, yep, 15th July, pretty early that, but will get my stuff together tonight and posted off tomorrow. Just done some short slow miles from Saturday onwards, a 4 followed by 2 5's - no ill effects to report from London, thank gawd, legs seem fine. Just keeping in ticking over in similar vein the rest of week, take it to 6, or maybe 7 max, then up the game the 2 weeks after that in terms of miles and efforts, then a 1 week taper and Edinburgh. Looking forward to it already.
Hope everyone is well, remember to get those 2012 applications in haha!!
Glad you had an excellent run, TJK.
Impressive long (CD) / fast (Gobi) cycling going on. I ran 6M @ 6:55/M this morning -- about all my calves could take even now. I'm due to run a county champs 5000m on the track in 2.5 weeks, but my legs won't be ready for any serious speed for another few days yet I fear.
I see the GFA and champs goalposts are unchanged this time.
Thanks for the tip-off re. GFA deadline.
FR looks good: nice miles there. I'll try another PM later.
Banged out 8m early this morning with the sun coming up. Utterly blissful. Received some instructions to put a bit of pace in (10x30s @5k intervals) and found the overall run was way quicker for corresponding HR than a couple of months ago. I've also managed to escape the low training and feasting with minimal weight increase so all-in-all very pleased. 10k race next week to sharpen me up and coach has some proper track sessions starting up again.
PtB - she was trying to catch me up !
MrB - nice, I have a Tacx Sirius too (so do lots of other folks that have bought one on my recommend). 2hrs on a Saturday and then a 20M on the Sunday it is then !
Nice one RWH - back to it nicely. You're obviously keeping the coaching arrangement going for the next campaign too.
8x250/10sec rest bagged in the lido, decent pace vs (lack of) effort going on ( for me), rep av= 4:28 (all reps 4:25 to 4:30)
Hail Hail
Hope you all had a restful long weekend.
Good to see some legs coming back to the fred.
Early doors 22M here. Started cold(ish), finished wishing I was going topless. Bit of a course recce for a leg of LeJoggers. Rather warm and sunny here.
I’m surprised by the number of times P&D get mentioned on here. Compared to the very infrequent mentions that my hero, Dr Noakes gets.
I’m very cynical with any one size fits all training plan, and always doubt the scientific rigour employed. Contrast that to Noakes and his publication of a host of different training plans, lessons from the experts and lots of indepth debate on different science behind the different aspects.
Noakes gets you to make up your own mind, or not be blind to what you are told! (Even though he likely blots his copybook with his central governor theory).
A good case in point being mention that RW-H (I think) made about the theory that P&D have that positive splitting is the best way to run. They say, I believe, something about fast twitch fibres…. Which I take to mean “we’re now going to throw in a token bit of science to bamboozle you with”. I would have thought that any theory on splitting MUST also take into account the following:
1. Second half of a race, you will be considerably lighter than the first
2. You could run the last mile or two very quickly (to exhaustion in fact), but could not do that in the first half
3. Etc
In fact, I would also expect to see an analysis of:
1. How typical winners of major marathons split v also rans
2. How recent world records have been broken
I think I can be fairly sure of the answers to the last two points!
I know that Noakes does make mention in his book that “everyone slows down”, but Noakes is always good for a balanced view.
In fact, on another hot topic (literally), I was reading last night that he reckons that winners of races finish with higher rectal temperatures than losers, that dehydration is overplayed and misunderstood, and that ingesting liquid carbs and sponging during a race are far more important. He also seems to believe (only through observation) that top athletes only drink about 200ml/hour during a marathon.
So, there you go. Big up to Dr Noakes…..yah boo sucks to the boys Pfitzinger and Douglas!
LD - P&D do specifically mention elites v non-elites and mentions the exact splits for the current world records. I'm interested to take a look at Noakes anyway though
Tom - Thanks for the thoughts on the non-marathon P&D book. I'll borrow it from Mr. B when I get a chance but won't bother buying it. I have the Daniels book but have sadly neglected it recently. I particularly liked his theory about points for training so that you can measure increase in training load rather than just miles. Time to get it out and see if I understand a bit more this time.
Mr. B - Sounds like we're agreed on London. I didn't get my sunglasses back unfortunately. Have already ordered a new pair which will take another two weeks unfortunately. Might see if I can pick up a cheap pair that properly block out the sun in the meantime but I'll probably just avoid running when the sun is out.
Clearly you beat me to it. P&D do indeed report on all that (pp125-126) including world record splits and top performance splits. P&D's point is that elite runners are far better adapted to run that sort of even or even slightly negative split than most other runners. I'm not advocating P&D, merely responding with their theory although I can see their argument having some coherence, notwithstanding LD's counter arguments about weight, final mile and rectal temperatures (did I get that right?). I have a colleague who loves the Noakes. Must be me but I find it verbose and unwieldy. It strikes me as more of an anthology and I'd like to see a decent editor get to work on it. Ooooh, sacrilege. Totally take LD's point about pseudo-science though. There's a lot of it about viz what now turns out to be fairly spurious stuff about the Aussie carb-load.
On the subject of sunglasses ... I've discovered that the Up&Running shop where I need to use my £25 voucher sells neither Nike shoes nor Adizero/Oakley sunglasses. They do sell 'Aspex' sunglasses from about £30 which sound like they could be complete rubbish to me. Anyone going to tell me otherwise?!
I've been back at work today and am feeling belligerent. Was about to put 'crabby'.
As I mentioned in my previous post if one want's to train to pre-specified Schedule then P&D is probably the best bet., though as I always say, it just a revamp of daniels ideas, with perhaps a bit more insight into the mechanics of marathon running.
To be fair to them what they do is specify the key sessions per week and recommend that you fill up the rest of the week with as much running as you could comfortably cope with. The first person I read who suggested this approach was Alan Storey (former national distance events coach, I think).
Interesting. Well I must admit my training schedule hasn't borne much relation to P&D and from my own albeit coached perspective there are things in P&D schedules that I'd now question.
If anyone saw my earlier iteration, I meant Aspex sunglasses not 'Aztecs'. The latter had an interest in the sun but presumably not sunglasses.
not sure what my training resembles. but i am definitely in the do some miles slower, and do some miles faster camp (and probably always end up slightly on the too many too fast side of the fence so body breaking always on edge!), and fit in as much as u can when training for a marathon. i know i have never done any track work, and hardly ever done any reps. however, i'm still a relatively low mileager round here so probably just getting miles in, and some tempo type stuff is still enough for me to improve for now without having to analyse it too much.
anyways, as per my non schedule and doing what feels ok at the time, i jog commuted 7 miles to work at about 7m/m pace this morning (felt easyish after a rest day yesterday so that's promising), and then did a hard 10km on the treadmill in 38 minutes at lunch time. think i will keep it slower for rest of the week then, and try to get out for a long run on the holiday on friday! want to get at least 2 (hopefully 3 or 4) 20 milers in before i try and jog 26.2 round Stockholm end of May (actually, thats i 4 weeks on Saturday - so i won;t get 4 20 milers in then i guess!!)
strange that i have quite a bad cold right now, but doesn't seem to adversely impact my running - i'm still on the improve curve back towards some sort of fitness... but still a long way to go too!
DanA - glad you're running again
Selbs - same to you, hopefully getting over the injuries
Don't worry about Mr Boat, he's going to nail sub 2.50 at Abo but as I've handed over my place to him he has to do it in the fancy dress outfit of my choice, lol
You know the marathon is out the way when you buy a chocolate gateaux (albeit a small one) in the supermarket!
Club run tonight 8-9 miles and a couple of pints after. Enjoying the laid back approach to running at the moment and watching the world go by.
Been idly looking at world marathons, as you do, and amazed by the proliferation in the number of regional marathons in France this year: http://www.marathonguide.com/races/races.cfm?place=intl
I love the idea of some of these vineyard marathons where you take decent food and even wine on the way!
Anyone on here running a French marathon this year? (Apart from Paris)
Get a lot of my cycling/running sunglasses from Decathlon at no more than £8 a pair. Cheaper than Oakley and can afford to lose the odd pair. As long as they keep the sun out the eyes.
OK - hats off to P&D for adding more context than I gave them credit for!
RW-H - I'll need to re-read the Noakes stuff again re rectal temperatures (and you do have to have patience with him).... but I think the gist was something along the lines of...... "what's so bad with a bit of dehydration, what's wrong with a core temperature higher than a japanese power station?" Although he didn't say it, I think if you put a thermometer up Haille's arse, just after he set his world record that it would have melted, and made your arm glow!
He also laughs (OK, I laughed) at the very thought of drinking lots of water in advance of the race, and could instead give you 1,000,001 reasons why you should neck a load of lucozade two minutes before the off.
And get this! He doesn't do this on the basis that it will capture some of those pesky free-radicals that make Gillian McKeith's shit stink, he does it with a load of graphs that a team of Nobel prize winners put together.
And that's why I love Noakes.... that and his dog, Shep.
JH-1 - me and you will be blind beggars together.
I get my reading glasses from Primark for £2 a pop, and buy my contact lenses off the internet (crossing my fingers when ticking the box that say's "Do you have a current prescription, or ar you a tight-arse that would risk his sight to save a few quid (y/n)")
The Tories have made it trendy to say f*** you (sorry Crab) to H&S I reckon.
Excellent! Mrs RWH can't understand why there's so much laughter. I did try and explain about rectal thermometers but it was tricky.
Bloody H&S drives me mad, and I'm in charge of it. It's come to something when eyebrows are raised at my permitting fencing and pistol shooting clubs at school. Risk Assessments for bloody everything, as if 'risk' was a dirty word. We've gone f-ing bonkers and it all ties in with our inability to do well in sports. If you bring kids up to think safety all the time, and to be risk averse, you'll never fail ... or therefore succeed.
Marmite – hope the 10k went well. BR and I have a few races planned in the next few months. His are focussed mainly around the club as he’s a good team playerJ Me I’m a bit of a lone wolf and will do some club team stuff, but find there isn’t the same camaraderie in women’s teams as the guys! Anyway next race is Askern 10k for me and for BR it’s tomorrow night a local 5 miler which is part of the club road league.
Clearly – oh yes seen lots of physios over the years and one quite recently who was excellent and to tell the truth most probably got me to the start of London. I’ve seen all kinds of specialists. I just need to do the stretching and eventually it’ll ease off again. It comes and goes and hopefully it won’t stick around too long this time!
Tom – I think we’re in your camp of lots of miles all year round then an 8-10 week specific marathon plan. I like to think that I’m only weeks away from a marathon all year round!
Selbs – speaking for myself my legs are not tired. I have no fatigue whatsoever. I didn’t run for 5 days after London, and haven’t really done much apart from a 10 miler and a park run, but the legs are fine in terms of energy. I’m sure it’s because I was working below marathon effort from 13 miles onwards at London. Hope your pesky cough doesn’t stick around too long!
RWH - I've had my Oakleys for 7 years and think they're brilliant, but agree there are equally as robust cheaper ones out there that wouldn't cause upset if they got lost.
No run today, but back to it tomorrow.
I wouldn't stress about 20s Selbs. I didn't do one pre-VLM, and my STFD jog went ok. I think you carry more from years of running than many would suggest, and running just a wee bit slower than flat out in a big event is easier than you might expect.
I am much enjoying reading about our crazy Lejogers.
Hail Hail
Dids - met your hero about 18months ago and propounded some of those hydration theories. Definitely on a campaign of under-drinking as opposed to over-drinking. I might add that this meeting did indeed take place in Glasgow, so the very idea of over-drinking was a bit of a foreign concept. He's a very nice chap, and I sycophantically asked him to sign my copy of Lore. But I drew a line at asking him to take my temperature.
Always been in the high miles camp. Currently on 1470+ for the year to date. All to no avail if I cant run fast sometimes though.