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Marathon training with Mike Gratton
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My resting pulse this morning was pretty much at an all time low of 32. When rested it is normally c 35 or 36, and in the middle of hard training I expect it to be c 38-9. Now, I've worked out my WHR from a RHR base of 39, but recalculating from 32 gives me an extra 3 beats to play with to get to my 85% ie marathon WHR; this could give me up to an extra 12 secs/ml. Is working on this higher marathon HR a safe assumption, ie to run the first half after the first few miles at this higher HR or is there any obvious flaws in this assumption?
Ran the Paris marathon 3 days ago and posted a 3.21 time (with 1.38 halfway split). My recent races - 1.28 half and 39' 10k - suggested a sub 3.10. The temp in Paris was hot - 28deg at end of race. Did I do myself justice or have I still got the marathon thing wrong?
Nigel, I think you probably ran better than you could have expected given the temperatures - 3.10 is definitely doable give 18C temps, the effect of temperatures over 20C will depend on the individual but you can easily expect to lose over 10 mins.
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE RUNNING FLM TOMORROW. It's going to be warm so use common sense and take it easy in the first half.
NoodleRunner
Do you think it helps to wear a hat in hot condition?
BR
Was following the 3.45 schedule for my first marathon (started running last year at the age of 44!) so natuarlly a bit disappointed with 4.29. Overtaking was more difficult than I imagined due to congestion & to be honest (having seen some casualties as early 8 miles out) I started to overheat when I tried to pick up the pace. Still great day out and now I've got a real target to beat - which I know I can. Thanks for you advice, especiialy regarding my pulled calf in the Sandy 10 4 weeks ago.
Cheers, Rob
I was following a sub-4 schedule for my first marathon yesterday and ended up with 4:30.
If you told me before the race that I would miss my target by 30 mins I would have been dissappointed. However, it doesn't seem to matter now. Just really pleased to have kept going in that heat, dodging the walkers and ploughing on to the end.
At the 20 mile mark I decided never to run a marathon again.....starting to reconsider that now!
NoodleRunner
Few people ran to expectations due to the heat - now you have run one you will be able to take the experience into your next training regime and marathon and I'm sure you will hit your targets.
Andrew
Things went wrong but had a great day yesterday. Was going for 3:15 but set off slower due to the heat and the crowding. After about 6 miles my quads just gave up on me in the space of 200yds as if someone had just given me two dead legs! So had to amble through the next 20M at whatever pace my legs would let me and eventually finished in 3:31. I had barely even got up to race pace and it didn't feel like i was paying for anything i had done in the previous miles.
After muttering a few expletives under my breath for the next mile or so i saw the funny side of it and took the whole day in and really enjoyed myself and tried to ignore my legs as much as possible!
I played it by the book in the last couple of weeks and was well hydrated, plenty of carbs and well rested. Any thoughts on what the problem could've been for something to come on so drastically? Poor preparation? Liquid problem? Just a bad day?
You need to have a coule of weeks recovery time and start to introduce slightly longer, but easy, runs towards the end of the 2 weeks when soreness has started to go.
I would actually use the summer to work on 10km pace sessions but keep your long Sunday runs in there too so that you retain much of your endurance. At end of June switch from 10km training to marathon training for a Sept/Oct marathon.
I had stuck to the training plan and had hydrated before and during the race (though still needed attention for dehydration afterwards) so am worried there coul dhave been other causes.
Any opinion? Or just heat?
It's difficult to say what the problem may have been. If it was hydration then it is likely to be the opposite to what you might suspect - i.e. too much water which can cause swelling in the joints. It may be that you didn't getting into your natural rhythm and you might have been better setting off at 3.15 pace.
May just be nerves. Some times the marathon makes an unusual strain on you because it has been an ever present target and that can result to a kind of frezing on the big day in a way that you don't suffer or experience in other lesser events.
In a way it made it easier that it occured so early cos it meant i just forgot about time and just got my head down and enjoyed the run but i feel like i need to take some sort of lesson away from it. Maybe i don't and should just try again next year!
But no, one way or another - can't really blame your advice ;-) my race fell to pieces.
I can't really say I felt on top form from the start, even though I started easily I wasn't at the pace I'd have expected. I thought I'd tapered enough, and any effects of the heat can't have kicked in by then, and anyhow I've run some quite good marathons inmuch hotter temperatures. When I tried to increase the pace at 10k my heart rate immediately went far too high and I knew intuitively I couldn't hold the pace, so settled back to a HR and pace that felt right, though much slower than goal. Between then and halfway I also started getting stomach cramps, which I'd never had before; I'd been drinking a little more water and Lucozade sport to try to compensate for the weather, but not massively.
By halfway (1:49) I knew even 3:30, which I wouldn't have been particularly happy with was way out of the window, and the cramps were getting worse, particularly whenever I tried to run a bit faster, though my HR was now well below expected marathon HR. After one last effort, and remebering how sorry for myself I felt when I dropped out 2 years ago, I thought I'd just finish as I felt. When I walked a bit the stomach cramps subsided, but came back again when I started running again. In the last few miles I thought I'd better make an effort to get under 4hrs and just walked and ran enough to achieve this - 3:57.
I think the heat really got to me yesterday and instead of getting a 4.30 (previous pb is 4.48) I ended up with 5.14 and was really disapointed.
My body legs etc felt good but I just couldn't get a pace going and walked a lot. I got a terrible stitch like cramp at 23m which lasted on/off all the way to the finish line. I have never had this before, it was right in the centre of my stomach, just below my ribs. I couldn't run through it, even when I pressed my fist into it, it hurt too much! Any idea what that might be due to?
I drank water/lucozade regularly and took gels every 3-4 miles.
At the moment, feel like that was my last marathon.....!
The problem with a warm day in the spring rather than the autumn is that it has greater effect since you have trained through the winter & not summer months to become acclimatised. So it may be the effects of the heat.
There have been varying reports back from the Hard Training threads and training camp clients, most ran well with PB's but usually at the lower end of their target times, but some did suffer and reported they couldn't get their HR up to normal levels - I'm sure that that is the bodies response to the heat. Core temperature can go high very quickly once you have started running - unfortunately drinking has a minimal effect of core temperature - it will keep you hydrated but it won't cool you down.
The cramps I don't know about.
I'm not sure about the stitch Jackie. An elite athlete I gave some advice to had trouble with stitch in FLM a couple of years ago and we put it down to the Lucozade as he didn't usually use it.
However, Gebrasallasie dropped out with a stitch in the same place you describe (below chest and abdomen) and TmR sounds like she had the same problem.
I'm sure the heat was the main factor for most people - although it is unlikely to have been for the Ethiopians.
Again, I think it is simply the heat. Dehydration would not have been the problem early on - and almost regardless of the amount you drink on the route, you will end up slightly dehydrated as the sweat rate will be higher than amount of liquid that can be absorbed.
Core temperature will rise quite quickly, so you will feel the effect of the heat even though technically you are adequately hydrated.
I ran 4:11 and know that I am capable of much faster. My consolation is that I ran fast enough to give me 2nd LV65 place. But somehow it isn't much consultation.
I think that the longer one was out on the course the harder it got. So if one was able to put in a 3 hour and sub 3 hour time then the heat effect is not so magnified.
My HR rose very very quickly, unlike training runs at similar pace.
But my main problem was leg cramps in the last 3 miles, I could easily have stopped at any time for medical assistance. But didn't. I got to the photographer just by the finish line and stopped with an enormous cramp in my left adductor, how I managed to get onto the electronic pad, I'll never know, I stopped on the first one and then took ages to get on to the second one, when a physio was waiting to put me right.
My question Mike about the above para, do you think that taking on water can affect the balance of electrolytes? I took water on board at every other water station, I run 20 miles (in the winter, with very very little water).
didn't particularly enjoy the experience, too many runners, too many water bottles, too many digs in my body by guy's elbows and a lot of noise. One had to concentrate so very hard, right from the start of the race.
Interesting that other folk couldn't get therir HR up, as I had thought the opposite would be the problem ie it would get too high for the same percieved effort.
But very well done on your age-group 2nd place.
I have just been looking at my HR for the race, and it was fairly constant for the first 23 miles then it dropped like a stone and nothing I could do would raise it.
Mike my wife says thanks for the free pronation advice at the Expo - think she is sorted now ;-)
Well done all!
next time......
It was clear that the pace makers had been asked to set a slightly slower pace than might have been expected for the elites and it is my guess that it was because of the weather - they went through half way in 63.30 and were outside WR pace from the start.
All the other problems of mass participation - including the crowding, bottles on the road, not able to run the shortest route, etc., all add to the stress and probably do add to the physcial problems experienced. But the reason FLM is such a must do event is in part it's size so it is something you have to live with if you want to be part of the carnival...it's a plus and a minus.
Sorry you didn't enjoy it too much, it was my first FLM and I didn't either....I think I need to find a smaller one with fewer runners,.....or stick to halfs!
Congratulations on the 2nd LV 65 place, you might not feel it today but it is a huge achievement in that awful heat.