There is no freedom of choice if it's in the rules Nick. I don't want to be dodging huskies if they haven't paid to enter and weren't allowed the first place. If I have paid to enter a race with certain rules I have agreed to abide by, I expect others to have the decency to do the same.
so if the race rules say no rules.but let a blind person run with their dog........would it then be fine for hundreds of others to turn up with their dog as if blind people can do it then they can
It was to do with the change over timing. In the team sprint the lead rider and rider who comes through to finish has to change over within a set area on the track. IIRC Pendleton cam through on Varnish a bit early and was demoted.
so if the race rules say no rules.but let a blind person run with their dog........would it then be fine for hundreds of others to turn up with their dog as if blind people can do it then they can
If the rules state a blind person can run with their dog then they can run with their dog. If someone is stupid enough to think that gives them carte blanche to turn up in shades with their rottweiler then they should be kindly asked to find somewhere appropriate for their dog to stay until the end of the race. TRhis would only apply to people who are that stupid though so no need for most of us to worry....
Well, if it's not in the rules......then that's another matter altogether, but anyone with half a brain would surely just ask before turning up with their dog, goat or pair of stilts?
I would imagine Colin that you have the same attitude to shops who put up signs saying 'No dogs, except guide dogs'?
The issue being that dogs in shops are a nuisance and not a good idea, but shop owners and other customers are expected to make allowances for those who need a guide dog to get about. That's written into law, nobody thinks it's a big deal, and by and large you don't get people thinking that if it's OK for a blind guy, anyone should be able to take their dog wherever they like. The ocassional guide dog is perfectly manageable, half the customers with dogs wouldn't be.
Is it safe for deaf people to run races? Well, probably not as safe as it would be if they could hear, but that's true of many other things as well and they live with that every day of their lives. Is it reasonable for a race organiser to decide not to let all and sundry put themselves in the same position? Absolutely.
Fine. People wearing headphones can wear a sign on their backs:
I AM WEARING HEADPHONES.
End of problem.
I like that one. Although 'I am a self absorbed, ignorant F**kwit' would be better. Quite hard to fit on the standard number size, though..
Simon - I really hope you are being ironic in being so totally absorbed with your own view that you are acting in an ignorant way.
Never run with music in a race or in training. However, not had any issues in races with others doing so and in general it is people who throw litter in races who annoy me much more.
I like that one. Although 'I am a self absorbed, ignorant F**kwit' would be better. Quite hard to fit on the standard number size, though..
Once again the snobbish arrogant view on people who wear headphones rears its ugly head.
No pal - the RIGHT view. But if basically just being a good citizen and obeying the rules makes me a snob, well, so be it. If people can't race without headphones, they should try another sport they find less boring....
I usually listen to music if I'm out for a run on my own, and that's my choice.
But if I choose to enter an organised race, and the rules stipulate that headphones aren't allowed, then that's it. I don't need to challenge this, either on some sort of safety grounds, or by comparison with other scenarios (e.g.- deaf people), or make a case to justify myself.
No matter what I think my justification might be, or what argument I put forward, it doesn't matter - the rules are the rules, and if you're not prepared to follow them, then you shouldn't be there. If you decide to break the rules, then you can't complain when you're penalised in some way.
Same with any sport - any golfer can feel aggrieved at soem of the rules of the game and how they can sometimes seem "unfair", but the rules are the same for everyone, and anyone who, say, moves their ball because they'd prefer it to be lying better deserves to be DQ'd because they're cheating at the end of the day.
If you don't like the rules, don't enter the race, seems pretty simple to me.
Having said that, if someone else chooses to wear headphones when the rules of the race have banned them, it doesn't really make any difference to me, so not worth getting annoyed about.
The argument against the use of headphones is particularly pertinent to multi lap races. For those at the faster end of the field who may be racing for position rather than time it is important that we can warn slower runners to move aside as they are lapped. If they're wearing headphones and cannot hear properly they may not move out of the way in time and cause a collision etc.
Personally I have yet to be knowingly held up by a deaf runner but I have been held up by groups of runners wearing headphones.
I like that one. Although 'I am a self absorbed, ignorant F**kwit' would be better. Quite hard to fit on the standard number size, though..
Once again the snobbish arrogant view on people who wear headphones rears its ugly head.
I'd presumed this was Nick's comment, but suprisingly not.
Noone has even said anything like headfone runners are generally slower runners.
I've seen a couple of guys wear headfones on offroad muddy trail runs. That's even more ridiculous than on the road. Imagine being stuck behind some boob on a technical course that requires last minute leaps to a different track!
Cinders wrote a page or so back : "Have you been behind an earphoned runner that couldn't hear an ambulance trying to get through Colin?" to which Colin replied that if they play their loud jingle anyone can hear it. That's a fair point, although at Reading 4 or 5 years ago, an ambulance was indeed trying to get through (from behind the runners) the majority of whom heard it coming from engine noise alone and shouts of "ambulance coming through" from other runners. It was just passing me (I'd moved to the left side of the road) and a group of 3 lads all with headphones just ahead were oblivious to the shouts (and the engine noise) so the siren was sounded. Made them jump but I can also vouch for the fact that a siren 8 foot away is very fkin loud.
Nick - I'd be surprised if more races allow them rather than less. It will take just one incident where something happens as a result of someone not hearing an instruction before it becomes a race rule in its own right.
Said before on this sort of debate that I use my ipod on training runs on well lit, pavemented roads but not for racing or for roads/trails where imparing hearing increases risk. Even with the volume down (or one ear free) my own hearing is impaired.
Comments
There is no freedom of choice if it's in the rules Nick. I don't want to be dodging huskies if they haven't paid to enter and weren't allowed the first place. If I have paid to enter a race with certain rules I have agreed to abide by, I expect others to have the decency to do the same.
so if the race rules say no rules.but let a blind person run with their dog........would it then be fine for hundreds of others to turn up with their dog as if blind people can do it then they can
It was to do with the change over timing. In the team sprint the lead rider and rider who comes through to finish has to change over within a set area on the track. IIRC Pendleton cam through on Varnish a bit early and was demoted.
If the rules state a blind person can run with their dog then they can run with their dog. If someone is stupid enough to think that gives them carte blanche to turn up in shades with their rottweiler then they should be kindly asked to find somewhere appropriate for their dog to stay until the end of the race. TRhis would only apply to people who are that stupid though so no need for most of us to worry....
Well, if it's not in the rules......then that's another matter altogether, but anyone with half a brain would surely just ask before turning up with their dog, goat or pair of stilts?
It went something like this
"Headphones are not permitted in this race.
This rule applies to everyone, even you!"
I think that was clear enough, even though I did see 4 people ignoring the warning.
Obviously each race has its own rules but this one was well emphasised.
Now that's my kind of race!
To get past, all you needed was a friendly "excuse me" and after thanking them you would get a "well done mate" in reply.
If you can run with 3 mirrors and sort out the lane issue then that's one more thing in your favour.
I would imagine Colin that you have the same attitude to shops who put up signs saying 'No dogs, except guide dogs'?
The issue being that dogs in shops are a nuisance and not a good idea, but shop owners and other customers are expected to make allowances for those who need a guide dog to get about. That's written into law, nobody thinks it's a big deal, and by and large you don't get people thinking that if it's OK for a blind guy, anyone should be able to take their dog wherever they like. The ocassional guide dog is perfectly manageable, half the customers with dogs wouldn't be.
Is it safe for deaf people to run races? Well, probably not as safe as it would be if they could hear, but that's true of many other things as well and they live with that every day of their lives. Is it reasonable for a race organiser to decide not to let all and sundry put themselves in the same position? Absolutely.
What Cheerful Dave says...
I like that one. Although 'I am a self absorbed, ignorant F**kwit' would be better. Quite hard to fit on the standard number size, though..
Simon - I really hope you are being ironic in being so totally absorbed with your own view that you are acting in an ignorant way.
Never run with music in a race or in training. However, not had any issues in races with others doing so and in general it is people who throw litter in races who annoy me much more.
does anyone know which marathons favour what policy on headphones?
greater manchester - 'open ear' headphones only
Abingdon - no mp3 players
etc?
What are open ear headphones?
Once again the snobbish arrogant view on people who wear headphones rears its ugly head.
I usually listen to music if I'm out for a run on my own, and that's my choice.
But if I choose to enter an organised race, and the rules stipulate that headphones aren't allowed, then that's it. I don't need to challenge this, either on some sort of safety grounds, or by comparison with other scenarios (e.g.- deaf people), or make a case to justify myself.
No matter what I think my justification might be, or what argument I put forward, it doesn't matter - the rules are the rules, and if you're not prepared to follow them, then you shouldn't be there. If you decide to break the rules, then you can't complain when you're penalised in some way.
Same with any sport - any golfer can feel aggrieved at soem of the rules of the game and how they can sometimes seem "unfair", but the rules are the same for everyone, and anyone who, say, moves their ball because they'd prefer it to be lying better deserves to be DQ'd because they're cheating at the end of the day.
If you don't like the rules, don't enter the race, seems pretty simple to me.
Having said that, if someone else chooses to wear headphones when the rules of the race have banned them, it doesn't really make any difference to me, so not worth getting annoyed about.
This one again, Liam you're applying sense to a nonsensical debate, and I think you're absolutely spot on.
The argument against the use of headphones is particularly pertinent to multi lap races. For those at the faster end of the field who may be racing for position rather than time it is important that we can warn slower runners to move aside as they are lapped. If they're wearing headphones and cannot hear properly they may not move out of the way in time and cause a collision etc.
Personally I have yet to be knowingly held up by a deaf runner but I have been held up by groups of runners wearing headphones.
I wonder if you can get performance enhancing headphones.
I'd presumed this was Nick's comment, but suprisingly not.
Noone has even said anything like headfone runners are generally slower runners.
I've seen a couple of guys wear headfones on offroad muddy trail runs. That's even more ridiculous than on the road. Imagine being stuck behind some boob on a technical course that requires last minute leaps to a different track!
Cinders wrote a page or so back :
"Have you been behind an earphoned runner that couldn't hear an ambulance trying to get through Colin?" to which Colin replied that if they play their loud jingle anyone can hear it.
That's a fair point, although at Reading 4 or 5 years ago, an ambulance was indeed trying to get through (from behind the runners) the majority of whom heard it coming from engine noise alone and shouts of "ambulance coming through" from other runners.
It was just passing me (I'd moved to the left side of the road) and a group of 3 lads all with headphones just ahead were oblivious to the shouts (and the engine noise) so the siren was sounded.
Made them jump but I can also vouch for the fact that a siren 8 foot away is very fkin loud.
Nick - I'd be surprised if more races allow them rather than less. It will take just one incident where something happens as a result of someone not hearing an instruction before it becomes a race rule in its own right.
Said before on this sort of debate that I use my ipod on training runs on well lit, pavemented roads but not for racing or for roads/trails where imparing hearing increases risk. Even with the volume down (or one ear free) my own hearing is impaired.
Going by the number of people who simply cannot run without them I think they must all be performance enhancing.