The Middle Ground

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  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    For a 10k race, the 8 miles the week before should be fine.  For the tempo, do it Thursday, keep the intensity as per normal but drop the distance compared to what you normally do.  Definitely get a run in the day before the race, just a leg loosener.  


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Easy 4 miles (8.20mm) at lunch, legs feeling tired this week.  Got back to see the guy I went out with yesterday did 4.5 miles at 6.11mm and he said sorry he didn't message me before so that we could head out together.  Glad I missed that one!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    J gav a conversion of half mara x 2 plus 10-12 minutes is fairly normal if properly trained, so a low 1.30 half is well in the mix for a 3.15 mara.

    I'd be glad I missed that one also, J-Gav!!

    Andrew, I just train as normal after a raced parkrun. I am a bit heavy legged on the sunday but it wouldn't stop me doing a 20 for example. I then crack on as usual from the Monday.

    Just some gym stuff for me tonight as legs still don't really feel up for too much running.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    My best conversion is 1:30 to 3:22 ... I'm not built for marathons but I enjoy the challenge, so keep on torturing myself.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    J gav a conversion of half mara x 2 plus 10-12 minutes is fairly normal if properly trained, so a low 1.30 half is well in the mix for a 3.15 mara.

    Just some gym stuff for me tonight as legs still don't really feel up for too much running.

     I hate gym stuff and just too tired at the moment to do much in the way of dedicated stretching/rolling/strength.  I know it's a terrible habit.  Then again, I do swim, so that helps with core.

    We'll see if I get my way and run a marathon next autumn.  With a whole year to build into it, I hope to give it a really good go on debut.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    gym stuff didn't happen as daughter has sickness bug so went out at 8 for another easy 5. 

    My recent conversion was x 2 plus 12.45 which is probably my best conversion to date which is unsurprising I guess when I consider that the 13 weeks immediately before it was my highest mileage block by quite a margin. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Hope daughter recovers quickly DT and the rest of you avoid catching it! I bet if she'd have brought that into the house the week before York you'd have moved out for a few days!!

    3.5 miles for me last night - first 2 miles felt good, but the legs got a bit heavy towards the end. I put it down to a bit of fatigue from the tempo session the night before, combined with the fact I am suffering with a fairly heavy cold so perhaps not getting enough oxygen into the system at the moment! Oh well, it is out of the way - hopefully tonight's run will feel a bit better!

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    DT19.. my half at the VOY was 1:41 so my 3:32 at York fits in nicely with your formula.  My best ever was a 1:28 half converting to a 3:03 full.  However I did have a puzzlingly bad day at the half and ran  64.32 for 10m a month later which was more like the form I thought I was in at the time.  :)   Best of luck with the bug avoidance.

    BTW I got in at the Brass Monkey too so hope to see you there.  I've been running it since the early 90's when it didn't even sell out.  :o 

    Get well soon AndrewD.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks Wardi- still got a horrible feeling throat, but I’ve managed to run as planned through it. 7.5 miles today in just over 1hr10. Felt very relaxed - enjoyed it lots, as most of it was off-road along footpaths and round farmers’ fields in some lovely winter sunshine!

    Weather forecast this week looks very unsettled, so it’s going to be a challenge fitting all of this week’s runs in around that. Saturday morning especially looks stormy, not great for parkrunning!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Wardi, hopefully see you. planning to stay at the holiday inn on race course. 

    Andrew, decent longer run. yes if that happened 2 weeks ago there would have been a domestic as I'd have gone all pro and dome my daughter down the river! Anyway no one else got all. 

    I took advantage of the clock change and went out at 7.50 new time today. let me get 9 miles in before mini rugby. best run in weeks. gave me 33 for week. I'm now on holiday again until Friday. I'm staying in a caravan in South Wales until Friday. Bought kit with me to get a few runs in. 

    Have a 10k next Sunday. The same one I set my pb in last year. Not ideal th9s year as I'm away until Saturday but I'll give it a go!!!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Binned off half way through my long run yesterday.   Could feel my half way healed blisters were coming back, once I realised I was changing my natural gait to accommodate I stopped and got a taxi home.  Really don't need to pick up a niggle.  Managed 9 miles out of the planned 13.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sensible call JGav. 9 miles is still a good stint.

    Enjoy your holiday DT - hope the weather is kind to you!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    I didn't bother with Brass Monkey but I did enter Snake Lane 10, so will no doubt see Wardi there. BM is great (my PB course) but such a faff to get in.

    I did my 2nd post mara run on Sunday - about 10K. Felt aerobically fit and unbroken, although muscle fibres are still feeling a bit "ripped up". Will get in a couple more runs this week before Abbey Dash 10K on Sunday.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    5 miler at lunch.  

    Finding most runs seem to be a struggle with sore calves and/or the pace (any pace) feeling tough.   Hoping it's just my body not used to maintaining this volume and that it will adapt.

    Last three weekly totals have been 53km, 42km, 40km (was supposed to be 50km)  
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    JGav - can't remember exactly how long ago your HM was, but could it be that you just need a week of much lower mileage to allow the calves time to recover? I tend to be more cautious than most I accept, but I would personally have a week of about 50% my normal mileage in the week after a race just to avoid the risk of injury/overtraining? What was your average weekly total in the 6 weeks prior to the HM?

    It might also tie in to the discussion we were having last week about training to current fitness paces as opposed to 'hoped for' paces.

    Only you know how you feel though.


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I don't think it's the paces thing because I've only run two sessions to pace (one intervals, one mara paced run) the rest has all been slower stuff.  Probably just me trying to maintain higher mileage for consecutive weeks.  I'm two weeks post HM race and 3 weeks to go to the next one.  Going to push on for the next two weeks and have a decent week long taper.  

    Wondered if anyone on here has used calf compression socks for recovery and if they're any good.  I don't see how they're of use whilst actually running but afterwards might help.
  • I, also, think you should back off JGav! If I recall, it will only be two weeks post half, and although you are probably keen to get a few hard weeks' training in before your next taper, you don't want to risk injury: sore calves in the past were a disaster area for me, trying to run through the problem and only worsening it and quite possibly contributing to damage to the Achilles. How long before the next half?

    I would always recommend backing off every three or four weeks and training plans that I have written for others always incorporate this, subject to the racing calendar.

    re training to current fitness paces as opposed to aspirational, I have a slightly different view: for the longer distances, say 10 miles and above, I would work towards current fitness pace; for shorter distances I have always built in a small degree of aspiration.

    Longest run of the year this morning: 8.11k, largely off road, well-wrapped up...and a slightly sore calf: foam roller, spiky ball and stretching will be the order of the day, or rather, the order of the evening. The older I get the more emphasis I am putting on the non-running elements of running, with regular Pilates plus lots of other stretching and strengthening work. It is time-consuming but even ten to fifteen minutes a day will help. 



    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Take a break JGav ... "better to be 10% under-trained than 1% over-trained".

    Good news on the longer run alehouse.

    I don't want Sunday's 10K to be too much of a shock to my recovering legs, so went out for a brisk 3.65 miles this morning before cycling to work. Came out at 7:44/mi but stuck in a 7:09 mile in the middle to wake the legs up... and also tackled a tough steep climb in the last mile. All felt good.


  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    How's the forecast looking for your race on Sunday, Dan? 3.5 miles for me this morning. As usual I hate running that early and the legs felt sluggish, but it is out of the way now! Next run will be tomorrow evening - will be quite interesting having to dodge the various groups of trick or treaters on the way round! The tempo section in the middle will at least be able to be performed on the main road, where the groups will hopefully be less, but the start and finish of the run near our house will be a pain.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    rest day - that is all I have to say

    Though the weather looks nice this lunch...
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Still feeling rubbish, think I've been hit with a virus.  So another day off methinks.  Will have to see how long this lasts for.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Hope the rest allows you to shake the virus JGav.

    5.5 miles this evening with just 2 miles in the middle at tempo. Wanted to keep the session light, with a parkrun lined up for Saturday (hence only 2 miles at tempo rather than 3 or 4) and perhaps subconsciously I backed off the pace a little and averaged out at 7.19 pace (rather than the 7.07 type pace that I’ve been achieving recently). 
  • A combination of niggles and holidays seem to mean it is very quiet in here this week. Hope all are well - good luck to any other fellow racers this weekend!

    4 easy miles for me last night. Rest day today.

    Parkrun tomorrow morning on the course where I set my pb back in 2015 on the only occasion I have run that course before. It is further away from the in-laws than another parkrun and it doesn't seem worth the extra drive unless I feel close to pb form, so I haven't done it again since.

    I wouldn't say that I necessarily expect a pb, although it may be possible, but would think that something close to it could be achieved. Would be happy with anything sub 21 (pb is 20.42), but so long as it is below 21.20 it will be my fastest 5k in over 3 years.

    Hoping the weather plays ball and it isn't too windy.

  • Go well tomorrow, AD! Weather is always the big problem! Not necessarily the time of year for a PB but that doesn't stop you running hard: freezing temperatures, windy, rain can all interfere! Am pretty sure you are in sub 21 shape though; just don't be too despondent if it doesn't happen!

    Nearly 28k last week for the highest total of the year, as was the 111k for October. Not a good number for cricket fans!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Well, that will be close. 20.41 on watch, which would be a 1 second pb! Will wait for official time (started on 2nd row, so shouldn’t be more than 1 sec added).

    EDIT: official time 20.42 to exactly match my pb (at this course the only other time I ran it! 17th position as opposed to 20th last time there.) Winner did a pretty impressive 15.47! Especially impressive as a good mile of the lap was into quite a strong, cold wind.
  • Well done, ADPresumably that is your best WAVA! Obviously more to come without the strong, cold wind!

    Opted against a parkrun this morning and gave myself a gentle (?) reintroduction to some hills.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Thanks Alehouse - yeh, best WAVA ever at 64.05%.
  • Will be interesting to see what your legs are like tomorrow, AD: if there are no aches etc you didn't run hard enough...although that will also be evidence of more to come!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Well done Andrew! :)

    I was the 25 min pacer today ... 24:36 but at least the first two km were each bang on 5 min (as was the last).

    Abbey Dash 10K tomorrow.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well done on the parkrun, Andrew. how are legs today?

    Painful 10k today. Could tell after mile 1 that pb pace was not happening. Possibly some over indulgence on holiday and in the last 3 weeks in general. 

    39.09 on watch for 10th and first v40. £25 up and running voucher so can't complain all in all. 

    Time to get back to it from next week I think. 
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