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Team TD Sub-4
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Tricky - thats really interesting - my HR was almost always 162 which is almost exactly 84% on my LSRs. As thats the uppermost level presumably I should try and lower that if I can. Will take my heart rate monitor out with me this week and see if thats changed as I havent monitored it for ages.
The other figures seem to be
LT - 174 - not sure it goes that high will check today as I have my LT training today will try not to stop that will make it go up!!
Intervals - 182 sounds about right too.
Race pace - 168 (was in 170s last year)
Recovery runs - 145
Should I worry about pacing? Everyone always mentions it on here and I really dont seem to have got my head around it. When I thought about doing some more marathons this year I thought it was something I should look at.
Golden Pig - hehe
Just a little stunned to be honest I have never ranked anywhere in any race (not even the egg and spoon race at school) so a first for me!!!
Well NGUG, I have always based my training on pace so far, but always wear the HRM strap too. As a methodology, our physiological changes are consistently related to HR zones whereas everyone's pacing is different. So 80% HR will get me going at one pace and Mrs. TD an entirely different pace.
So, HR zones allow us to choose which physiological stress we want to apply in training. BUT, HR is affected by many factors. Temperature, level of rest, humidity, time of the month, dehydration etc.
Therefore, it makes sense to try and work out what our normal pace is for a typical Heart Rate. With enough measuring and trial and error, it can be done. But what the books say is that it's pretty easy to predictthis correlation in a reliable enough way. By using race timings under ideal conditions.
So, if you can run 10K in such and such a time, and it wasn't too windy or hilly, then they can break down the training paces (thanks to have stacks of empirical data) for each of the different types of training runs. That's what the Jack Daniels VDOT calculator does. You put in a race time, and it tells you what pace you should do each of your training runs at. Nice.
A 47min 10K race time gives a Threshold pace of 4:49 per km, or 12.77kmh, FYI
Tricky - thanks thats very helpful. Was busy looking at the distances on the VDOT chart didnt really notice the pacing for training runs d'oh. Have to experiment this weekend with the HR monitor and keep an eye on the pacing - need to sort out average pacing on my Garmin - think I know how to do that having played around with the Garmin a bit now.
NGUG: fantastic time - go girl!"!!
What an exceptional talent you are - you were dead right to go for the 3.45 time slot in Paris, well achievable (good grammnar I know) for you. Keep going and keep well. You should rename yourself ohspeedyone
.
TD: found the polymetrics really aggrevated my siactica (my excuse so sticking to it) so really backed off on them. At the moment am struggling to get out and do the speed stuff - am going to make a big effort next week and go wednesday morning - preferable when it is still dark and no one is out seeimg me acting like a complete nutter oh sorry that's what I usually do!! Is heart rate better than pacing - have never done HR except when cycling in gym then heart rate never goes about 80.
Yoga and dog walking for me today had acqupuncture on my gluts yesterday so taking it easy until lsr on sunday (easy 7m trott Friday morning).
Fi - thanks hilly course three major ones so I think our practice at Windsor hills and my Brentwood Ultra probably helped. Seemed to fiddle about rather alot and decided to turn around and go back to join Mr NGUG as well and strange start as we were late but v.good atmosphere. Weather okay during most of the race apart from when waiting for Mr NGUG when the heavens opened again. If you look at the facebook link you will see what a happy bunny Mr NGUG looks - not! He really did not like those hills and looked absolutely wacked. Tash coming on nicely now hoping that he is not going to keep it - not too keen on facial hair on him ugh.
TD - heart rate on LT was spot on yesterday. Definitely getting easier to manage now only a few stops - had in mind your comments that I really really shouldnt stop if I could help it. Hoping to do the whole thing without stopping next week. Breathing seems to be the biggest problem at times I think I panic myself normally circa 30 mins convincing myself I cant go on - my legs feel fine no feeling of lactic build up. Seems so much to be in the mind alot of this running malarky.
Fiona - HR or pacing doesn't matter really. They are just different ways to measure that you are putting in the right amount of effort according to your training goal. On the whole, pacing charts like the VDOT calculator are easiest to work with because HR is a bit more variable. Mind you, we all know to vary pace according to gradient of a hill for example, so there's no foolproof method of being absolutely consistent.
NGUG - a little stop now and then is fine. It's just that the speed you are running at is really close to yourlactate threshold (especially inside a warm gym on a treadie), so as long as it's just a few seconds at a time, it's enough to ensure you don't go over that threshold (which you aren't supposed to do!). Sounds like you are really making good improvements.
TD: am keeping my LSR - did 14miles last saturday in very windy and rainy conditions, at an average pace of 9.08m/m. The route has a few hills, not immense in gradient but of at least 0.5 mile to 1mile in length. Last saturday at mile 10 - 12 running (if you could call it that) into a head wind, and then started to rain, Kept going - more like a plod and still managed 14 miles at 9.20m/m so on track. Just keeping the LSR's at between 12 - 15miles no further until january, trying to get stronger at this distance and then build up to the really long 18+ ones in Feb - what do you think on my pacing for the LSR's? My speed work try and keep at 7.30 for the 0.5m sections. Tempo pace is at 8m/m. Sorry to be a pain - but does this sound about right?
NGUG: will check out the facebook page later this evening, Mr NGUG does sound truely attractive though
- I must admit I don't really do masses of facial hair!!!
Tricky - thanks for that spoke to Mick also about the breathing - actually admitted to him this time the no. of times I had stopped - as a bit less embarrasing this time. He recommended doing the sharp exhailing cough to get more oxygen into the lungs bit like sprinters do. Might sound as if I have swine flu but should help me breathing so will try that next week. My stops are literally a second or two take a breath and then go on.
Fi - can you remind me what your new water proof is (did it ever come?) - I want something lighter than my Gore one which is quite heavy and really better for when it is cold.
Spin for me today and ju jitsu tonight. All go
TD I have to disagree with you on the above percentages unless they are straight percentages and not calculated off working heart rate. They seem too high. Apologies if they are. I know that you got them in a book but how are they worked out?
I think Parkers book = Heart monitor training for the compleat idiot is one of the best books on the subject. There is a fetch link that pretty much summarizes it. Will try to find it.
LSR/easy runs 70% for races
marathons 75%
Half marathons 80%
10k 85%
shorter 90-95%
70% LSR for training.
85% threshold stuff
NGUG- I have a Max heart rate of 194 so we are very similar. MY 70% is 150 and my 85% is 172.
You might be something similar?
It does seems very slow when going at 70% but it really does make a difference if you stick with it. AS correspondingly it makes it really hard to reach the 85% workout level. too. So you rest easier but you also have to work harder.
http://www.fetcheveryone.com/article-view.php?id=87
NGUG: never got a new waterproof - use my faithful Nike jacket, did buy a Montane windshirt - very fab at wind protection, not so good on waterproofing, only water resistent rather than waterproof!! I aspire to Goretex - too expensive for as my Nike is light and water and wind proof!!!! So looking forward to meeting up on the 29th should be fun (we may well get lost but who cares!!) we may well find that worm hole to brussel and visit tricky!!!!
TD: thanks for confirming what I thought, am avoiding injury and what I'm doing seems to be working so will just try and up the pace for the last mile or so, funnily enough I do tend to do this and end up running at 8.30 - 8.45mm for the last 2 -3 miles, when I'm on my own I tend to go into the "zone" then!!! Rather than chatting!!
Fi - ahhh. Thanks thought it was a waterproof. Will have to do some surfing for something cheap I think as I spent far too much on my Mythos Gore jacket last year but would like something a little lighter for slightly warmer rain!!! Any excuse aye. Cool the wormhole sounds a really good idea - would expect at least a cup of tea Tricky maybe even a piece of cake.. Brain still not in gear Fi after yesterday but will think re route over the weekend
Hey Finn. Those numbers are % of Max HR, not % of Working HR (which is max minus resting HR).
Using WHR %'s will push towards lower numbers. But given my Garmin only measures HR as %MHR or as a raw number, I stick with that. WHR may be a degree more sophiticated but it doesn't matter to me whether or not I am ½ - 1% astray. When I run, I can go from 86-94% on a tempo run, but I boradly aim for 88-90%.
Most of the time it makes sense to pay attention to where I am going rather than staring at the watch trying to adjust my pace and HR.
I see
; Thats a good idea when the watch reads mHR. MIGht try and reconfigure mine though I am used to the numbers now.
How many of us are still aiming for the Sub 4?
I hope to get mine in 2010. Not sure where yet. What about the rest of you?
Tricky - tried the HRM and consistent again @ 162 apart from when I was messing around - rushing to get home before it got totally dark. Did check the pacing a couple of times was a little faster and then a little slower than the VDOT calculator - didnt remember to set the average pacing before I set out so I think it was probably pretty much spot on.
Fi - think when we do plan our January run mornings might be a good idea. Got stuck out in the dark again last night which I dont think is a particularly cool idea especially as there are no street lights for most of the way. Had that am I totally mad feeling as this rather strange (probably totally normal) chap came walking towards me out of the dark
not that I was freaking myself out at all.
Tricky - eeek help here!!! Bro-in-law has done 10k in 1hr 19mins which he recons is 12.31 kms/ph I have never done that distance so slowly but the VDOT calculator showing him doing a race at 1hr at that distance
. Makes no sense to me. Mr NGUG who I trained a few months ago did that distance in 58 mins in a 10km race having never done it in 1hr 19 mins ... dont understand... VDOT says this is a 4.35 marathon pace.
Your brother-in-law can't do maths then!! If he ran 10km and it took him one hour, that would be a speed of 10km/hr.
If he ran 10km in 1h19, then that has got to be slower than 10km/h right? In actual fact, it is a speed of 88 consults his handy race pace spreadsheet ** is 7.59 km/h. That would work out between 6 - 7 hrs for a full marathon. So don't worry, this guy's not going to be competing with you any time soon
Seems to be up and running again now...hoho
Am I the only one working out?!
I noticed a big jump in my body fat loss this morning after having played a hockey match on Sunday. BF went from 14.9 to 14.0, and muscle went up. It always takes over 36 hours to put on muscle after a hard workout, but it seems that the effort of hard sprinting does much more to burn fat and build muscle than distance running. Which is a bit strange, because in say 90 minutes of effort (including a warm up), I am probably running on 10-12km I would think.
So if any of you are running with a weight-loss objective, perhaps packing in some sessions where you are doing very short, hard intervals, could be a good thing to try. Ciao.
Aah, the danger of using the "F-word" on a forum inhabited by women
I say something that is meant to be encouraging like, "Here's a way to improve atheltic ability" and you hear "He's right to warn me that I look like a tub of lard so I better do something, anything quickly!!". You all look lovely in your photos, so stay calm. Nice to hear from you RP. Anything been changing for you on the employment front, like that dreamed for change of career? What's next on your running ambitions, assuming you'll leave it another year before having a crack at the WR.
How are you RP? Got anything planned on the horizon?
No TD we are just all busy just getting ready for Xmas as well. Carol service for us yesterday at Master NGUGs school - loads of kids with tea towels on their heads and tinsel.. all v.sweet.
Threshold training for me today. Ju jistu last night entering my brown belt grading in March.. v.nearly there now. Have to do a First Aid course as part of my black belt apparently
Could you post those scales again as I'd like to put them on my Xmas list..
They were Omron BF-500s I think. Not sure if they still make the same model but they cost about £45 online and were called "Body Composition Monitors". They measured weight, body fat, skeletal muscle and would calculate BMI and daily calorie requirement.
And as luck would have it, I see that they are up on Amazon UK for £28 + change
Hi all!
I am feeling rotten today...exactly like I did pre Berlin, so am currently trying to get hold of the docs to get some antibiotics...big night out on Saturday too, so not great timing! Good to see you all anyway...not done anything remotely exciting, but am registered for Gran Canaria marathon in Jan, but I only want to get round...won't be breaking any world records LOL!
NGUG are you serious?: Scales for Christmas?!! Yuk...I have some scales similar to that, though they don't look quite as fancy. They say my body fat is 27% and my BMI is 20...I think that is ok, but I don't really know?!
You guy's all set for Christmas? TD, are you going back to the UK for any of the festive period? I bet you have some nice Christmas markets over there? Am planning on checking out the Manchester German Christmas markets this weekend....If I am still alive!