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Im sure someone will have a more valid opinion than me, however I thought much of the point of that session was to practice marathon pace in preparation for the day as this will be the furthest you will have run it.
Isn't what you are doing, a very diffrent session?
A decent 92 minute run yesterday, I mde 4.8 miles this time before duty called! That gave me 30 for the week which isnt bad following a half marathon and being ill. Though if Mace did end up running 27 miles yesterday, then it looks a bit shit!
Haha - no DT you don't understand how this works - I need someone to tell me that its a perfect substitute and not to worry about the 18 with 14 at MP!
That sounds fine Skinny though maybe I'd stick to MP not HMP!
So obv not that experienced in the ways of P&D but I agree that the point of the session is to dial into marathon pace, Skinny, and let you see if MP is realistic etc. I was planning to do mine in a Half marathon but as I had to run Cov as a training run, I am now running Warwick hard. So very sadly I've had to find space in my schedule to do the 14 at MP on my own. Eeek. I've moved a 20 to make room.
I think even if you run that run at MP it could be a good training run but probably not representative on pacing information since a hilly route won't exactly map onto Manchester's course profile.
I didn't bother doing 14 @ MP last year.
Mr V - no, I teach French literature.
I remember doing it last year and as i had previously missed a 20, I made it 20 with 14 at mp
The 2 mile jog home was unpleasant
Bob, I recognise the name from recent XC events and as you say, he does seem a little bit off the boil at the moment.
I've just seen this quote from the event website, I presume they are taking the piss
'Once again we were blessed with weather conditions that were ideal for runners and spectators'.
Lit - Cool job. Any hidden gems to recommend? I used to be very keen on French literature in my student days. Zola remains a favourite.
Skinny - Ifs its hilly then 12 @MP would probably map to a flat 14 at MP? Seems reasonable to me.
DT - Do you ever do those 3x15 sessions anymore? Your mention of unpleasant jogs home just reminded me of the jelly legs post those sessions!
Thank you all - I have my plan - the hilly race stays but possibly a bit slower and the 18 with 14 at MP goes.
As McF points out I can't dial in to MP as I'll be going up and down hills but I've managed this okay on all my other MP runs and I've well exceeded Mr P and Mr D's target of achieving 90% of the training runs so why panic about missing the key one.
Haha Tommy - that must be cut and pasted in every year!
My favourite book in French is 'Trois a Tuer' by Jean Patrick Manchette. But then I like the noir stuff.
Bob - sounds similar to my run on Friday when i couldn't get it up either
I think sometimes you have to accept the body doesn't always react as we'd expect as there are so many variables.
Tommy - yep, the wind is a true bastard at times, unlucky
V - Zola is one of my all time favourites and i met him once, a genuinely nice bloke. Thought he was Italian though
Skinny - i'd go for MP but if it makes you feel better i think HMP is a perfect substitute
I didn't do a 3M recovery in the end. I watched my youngest play football, walked the dogs and then had a recovery half hour kip.
Skinny , just make sure you have decent recovery after the race. The last thing you want is to ruin yourself too early,
Thanks Coach - nice of you to pop in and look after me
Charlie, I spoke too soon. My Wife has now declared that she has to go into work for a few hours that morning
I don't really have any platform to argue from as i've got 3 races in April booked up.
On a different subject I just booked in for a BUPA medical and I picked the Advanced Health one (because I could
). As part of it I get the above two tests which sound great although both bike based rather than running so not sure if that gives the same results.
Main problem though is I booked it for Monday 13th April which is final taper week so I'm hoping it is not a test to exhaustion! Does anyone know?
I did a fitness test with BUPA. If it's the same bike test, it was far from working to exhaustion, but I did work up a sweat. I think you'll be fine. (Gave me an estimated VO2 max score of 65 milliwotsits. I wonder if it would've been higher for a higher rate of exertion? How does it work?)
BTW on the subject of the LR incl. MP, apart from the training effect, I think it's worth considering being able to bank a handful of key sessions which you can turn to during the race, as indicators that you're capable of the task in hand. Actually the most MP I covered in one go before Berlin was 8 miles, but that was after another 8 miles @ MP+30 secs, as part of a 24 mile run. So I think it would be good to bank at least one hard effort with a good dose of MP into double figures.
Hi PP - thanks - that sounds okay then. I have no idea how it works.
I've done a 16 with 10 and a 16 with 12 already so sounds like I'll be okay.
Skinny, my garmin 620 predicts vo2 max from heart rhythms etc at various intensity levels so i'd guess it does that on the same sort of basis as what you will have done.
I now have an unanticipated parkrun opportunity this saturday and if I dont take it, I probably wont get to one until June. I know Charlie has his 10k so I shall just have to somehow pace myself!!
There is a 5k at Long Marston too DT ... go for glory again. Not sure if they hold it within the 10k so the pacer could still be an issue.
yes, all 4 distances set off together. Its slighly complicated when you are racing a 5k as until the last 200m or so, you genuinely have no idea who is in your race.
I think in reality its too much messing about for 5k and i think better runners have now cottoned on to the fact its an easy prize so I probably wouldnt place anymore.
Just looked at the last two runnings of the event and sub 20 would still pretty much get you second place.
Skinny - I did a VO2 max test on a bike once, for a research project. I was asked to increase my power output by 25W every 2 minutes, and give up when I couldn't maintain the new level for the full two minutes. So yes, it is a test to exhaustion, but it doesn't go on for long. I didn't feel trashed afterwards, but you may be better at trashing yourself. The power output is measured by the bike (via torque and cadence, I guess), and your oxygen consumption is measured by analysis of the gas going in and out of your mouth and nose. I got a graph showing power output vs. O2 usage, and you can see the O2 usage levelling out shortly before I gave up. Here's what the printout looked like.
Shortly afterwards I f*d my right leg and couldn't run for a few months, so I don't know what running fitness this corresponded to. Think I'd been hoping for 3:20-3:25ish in a spring marathon.
I measured myself this morning and I'm actually 171cm! Ha!
I think we are Long Marston bound on Sat morning too for the 10k so let's try and say hello, Charlie. Me and middle child to race, Lou to spectate and wrangle middle child and baby. Eldest does squash, followed by football on a Saturday morning, so he should be more pooped than me.
VO2 max thing sounds fun, Skinny. Will be interesting to see how closely it maps to the Daniels formulas based on race times.
Not sure I can do bespoke French lit recommendations based purely on 'quite like Zola'. I have to confess I never quite got to the end of Germinal as an undergraduate and I still haven't. It's quite long though and in my defense came right at the end of a module on the 19th-century novel, on which all the other books were also quite long. I've seen the film of La Bete humaine though if that counts for anything.
On reflection I might end up not doing the 14 @ MP this year too, because I have to go to the US for work. We'll see...
Charlie - do you have any distinguishing features?
Bob - Sunday's run was a nice change along the canal. Legs have felt quite heavy plodding round the fields recently, so I enjoyed the relatively quick pace.
Buggerbuggerbuggerbugger. I have a sore foot. Hurts to put weight down on it and most especially when I roll forwards to push off again. It's ok stood still in a normal manner, but hurts if I stand on tip toe. Dr Google tells me the solution is either to rest or lose weight. It makes sense to have a day off, right?
Catching up... The only French literature I've ever read is La Symphonie Pastorale, and I cannot remember a single thing that happened in it. Pleased to hear you're better Lit, another example of your superhuman power to throw off any ailment instantly
Charlie, think you need to turn up with a carnation on Sunday. Good luck!
Skinny, the long runs are hard. The first time, anyway. And don't forget the effect of cumulative fatigue - upping the miles as you have does make you tired. The other six will be ok, the training does prepare you for it! I will be doing the 18 with 14 at Coniston at the end of the month, where I am hoping it will be easier than on my own on a slightly lumpy track. I think if you can find a race to sneak it in on then it would give you more of an idea of what MP actually feels like on the day.
Marrows, have you grown, or did they just measure wrong? Not hugely confidence inspiring if there is a 2 cm difference, though I believe you do shrink a bit over the course of a day so maybe that's it?
DT, go for it! I'm sure placing in a race is good for the confidence and the training!
McF, that's a good old pace for the long run! Sure you're not sneakily revising your target?? My murky orange cell looks in danger at the moment
I think your murky orange cell safe anyway...wasn't there some talk of sandbagging going on for you at one point
Oh dear Madbee. Did it happen all of a sudden? Is it OK when cycling? Actually the point of yesterday's measurement was to find out how much I shrink during the day. 1.9cm!
My legs are tired from Sunday so I'll skip the scheduled 5x600m today, I think. Don't want that weird blob thing to reappear.
Madbee - sounds a bit like when I sprained my ankle last with the 'hurts to push off' thing. Might you have slightly twisted something higher up? What the physio ended up giving me was lots of soleus strengthening exercises.
I too skipped the 5 x 600m and did 3 x 1 mile @ hmp instead.
Madbee, definitely rest. My sore foot a few weeks ago went away with rest (although I did still swim), the physio said it was probably some bruised tissue or something.
Very lethargic 3 miles yesterday, rest day today which fortunately coincides with me going to watch my brother-in-law's band play a pop concert.