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P&D Spring Marathon Training Thread
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But... if they're wrong about distance they'll be wrong about pace too! Do you also have to run a bit faster just in case?
literatin, stop encouraging andrews148, he'll just see that as a challenge!
Just a little ..
Andrews, that is super speedy!
You lot do make me chuckle! I plan to have every faith in the 3 x 20m runs. it will be the biggest number of 20 milers I will have ever done in training. In fact, this is the most training I have done ever!
the 50 mile week last week was the most I've run in a week and I feel okay. 55 miles this week and I'm looking forward to finishing the 20 on Saturday!
ANDREWS!!! I was really happy till i read your post now I'm back in the dumps!!!
managed 3 miles 7:10
then 5 miles 6:40
then 2 miles 7:30
thats the first time i have hit any of the paces on the schedule i was supposed to.
If you guys are running the LT session a couple of days after your half marathon race, you either:
a) ran your half marathon too slow; or
b) have been running your LT sessions too slow; or
c) both!
Tenjiso - Here here!!!! - I opt for c) BOTH!
Wenty, don't let what other people are doing get you down in the dumps! If you follow a P&D schedule by the book and at your target paces, you will run the marathon time that you're after.
I'm training to run 2:50ish, though it would be my first Sub3.
Clearly Ramjet ran his post-half-marathon LT session too slow, as he was slower than his HMP, when the LT runs are meant to be faster. I'd have been more worried if he'd been able to smash that run after the half.
What about
d) super-human ability to recover?
OK probably c). Today's LT session was definitely slow.
Still don't 100% agree with this - andrews I know you're running all your paces based on McMillan because you haven't done any recent races to gauge current fitness, but everyone else is (or should be) running to paces based on their actual level of fitness, not estimated paces based on their target. The paces for LT and VO2 are meant to improve current fitness level by targeting your actual, existing lactate threshold.
So for example if someone was targetting a marathon time slower than one that McMillan would predict, as lots of people do, they would be running much slower
than their real-life lactate threshold if they calculated a pace based on target MP rather than, say, real HMP. Conversely, if someone's target was ambitious based on current fitness, they'd be doing themselves no favours by smashing out all their training faster than their body could handle. They'd need to keep working at current fitness till their level improved, or they might end up (a) injured, or (b) too knackered to do the marathon justice.
It sounds like your estimated paces are working for you based on what you've managed to do in training, and probably that's because your 2:50 target is realistic and reflects your current ability level.
Only managed 4miles at LT today (which for me is at 8:54). The chill in the air affected my breathing and it was not comfortable at all - still coughing now!
Overall, not the best of runs.
madbee: no, I quite like the rest days - but I also use them to do a core routine as well, so get some exercise.
Hehe - sorry guys. Couldn't resist throwing out a little bait.
Due to my (hopefully not perrenial) peroneal problems, I decided to run the 10m/5m LT session on the treadmill. One of the possible causes is running on an uneven surface, and you can't get flatter than a treadmill, so it seemed logical
Even though, it's not “rest” in the strictest definition of the terms of treatment 
.
Having reviewed my pacing, using Jack Daniels VDOT 40 I have a 15K pace of 8:16, and an LT pace of 8:12. Both of which are nearer to my half marathon PB pace of 8:24. So I set the treadmill to 7.3mph for the LT miles to give me steady 8:13 pace. I ran 2m warm up and 3m cooldown at 10:32 pace.
My stats for the middle threshold miles were:
Pace: 8:13 / 8:13 / 8:13 / 8:13 / 8:13 (target: 8:12 to 8:16)
HR avg: 155 / 158 / 161 / 164 / 166 (target: 151 – 165 bpm)
HRR: 80% / 83% / 85% / 87% / 89% (target: 77% - 88%)
The temperature in my garage rose from 44F to 50F during the workout
I'm pleased that I was able to sustain the pace without being tempted to slow down. It felt uncomfortable, but manageable, and my heart rate was pretty much exactly where I wanted it. Although I'm happy with the session, it still doesn't mean that I'm looking forward to next weeks 6m @ LT!!!!
After the session I did the Peroneal stretch and dug into it with the foam roller. Finger's crossed it doesn't get any worse.
Hello. Good running all. Some impressive LT runs going on.
I ran 15mi lunchtime and was pretty bloomin wiped out at the end.
I get what you're saying Lit and I do agree, especially about the LT and VO2 sessions.
I do think that the MP sessions should be acheivable right from the beginning of the schedule.
A lot of it comes down to training towards a target time that isn't too ambitious, I think.
Literatin - But surely providing people are sensible and know there times based on other races recently that is their level of fitness?
Andrews, you saying my target time is too ambitious!!!!!
Yes, exactly. But andrews has had to estimate his because he hasn't done any recent races (I think). So when he talks about 'target times' he means his paces are all worked out based on the paces McMillan thinks an imaginary person capable of running 2:49 would run other distances at.
Other people who have raced various distances regularly might not quite match up to McMillan's perfect imaginary conversion - I know my 5k and 10k are not as 'good' as my HM, for example, so my training paces reflect that a bit.
I don't know Wenty, I'm just saying that I personally find it reassuring to be able to meet the P&D paces for my target time right from the beginning from the schedule.
I rely on the increase in mileage and increase in intensity over the course of the plan to get me up to fitness. Just because I ran 5miles today at the LT pace that P&D says is appropriate for a 2:49 marathoner, it doesn't mean that I could have run a 2:49 marathon today.
Don't pay too much attention to me though:- my racing experience is two marathons and two halves!
Literatin, I get yeh!
My paces last year are pretty close on the calculators. This year i am putting lots more training in, so I guess i wont really know my fitness level until a 10k or HM in a few weeks.
Only joking Andrews - They probably are ambitious - but hey - its better to crash and burn then to never take off! (erm not sure about that
)
PML guys!! That's hilarious... I was probable due a shit which is why I was shit
Yeah, I'm based in cold Nothern Germany
still no snow 
12 mi for me today, with 5M at what turned out to be something like 10mi pace ... was planning 5 continuous miles at HMP but went a bit faster than expected, and a little too soon after food, so got a stitch at about 2M. So, I decided to split it up at the half-way stage with a mile recovery. The 2nd 2.5M section went without incident. The tempo sections were at 87% maxHR. I did an extra couple of miles in total (to make up for the "break"
)
3M warm-up at 8:16/m, 2.5M at 6:56/m, 1M recovery at 8:05/m, 2.5M at 6:59/m, 3M cool-down/recovery at 8:57/m
Given that my 5M at HMP on 7th Jan was at 7:33/m (also at 87% maxHR), I was happy to hit significantly faster paces, even though I bottled it. So, next time I'll need to do something similar, except that middle 1M will need to be at 7/m instead of 8:05/m. Gulp.
8 miles tonight, within 40 seconds of my marathon pace, felt like I didn't have any pace in me lately so wanted to put a bit more effort in to see if I still had it within me.
Feeling great. 12 miles in the cold driving rain. Exhilarating - and now by a warm fire, it feels just great.
Supposed to be LT tomorrow but changing it to rest. Not good.
Sorry NN -- I do remember that feeling and it's a good one.
Some great lactate threshold running today. Unfortunately not from me. Mine was too slow at too high a heart rate, which is very disappointing as my last lactate threshold run two weeks ago was great, though again the heart rate was too high. I'll have to slow my lactate threshold pace down and manage it by heart rate.
As to the number of 20 mile runs, I must confess to the sin of planning at least 5x20 mile runs before the Virgin Money London Marathon, fitness permitting. I've done none so far. I may manage the first this Sunday. I find they boost confidence.
You blooming wet blanket
I also remember what you're feeling like. P&D does grind you into the dust at times. I did 40 last week... I was much fresher than you tonight, I guess. And when it's lashing it down, I do love it. Even when a car drove through a puddle right next to me, covering me from hip downwards... I actually did enjoy it, and quickened my stride.
You'll be fine - and all the better for it. I just had the best 5 days' running of the current campaign.
LFR - you'll be all right, but probably better to have a day's rest before the LT run anyway. I think that's why they're usually scheduled on a Tuesday after the Monday rest day.
And re. 20 milers, I've realised the 1st edition 55-70 plan has 5 anyway. The first one (which I've done) gets replaced with that 18/10mp run in the second edition. Clearly when balancing the new plan with the extra mp they decided having exactly 5 20+ milers was less important.