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Ah PMJ, that was one of the reasons that I bought a GPS, the training runs in foreign lands. I particularly recall one 6 mile outing in Lake Garda area, when I just went out with a sketch map. Up the valley, round that hill over there and back by the main road. Easy. The paths were exactly as I was expecting, but the back of the hillside opposite was different. I was eventually out for 18 miles, with no fluids and 30 degree temps. Memorable.
AR - based on your recent stellar performance I have to sit up and take notice. I live on the edge of the cotswolds and I guess have a different take on (offroad). Around here it means flogging up and down the cotswold escarpment through mud and gates and over stiles and battling through stinging nettles not to say anything of moving recacitrant bulls that are stood right in front of the stile you have to get over. Not ideal for those MP runs everybody seems so keen on.
On a more serious note the niggle you have sounds similar to something I have had for the last 3 years and is in fact called piriformis syndrome. The sciatic nerves is trapped/rubbing somewhere in the hip and I get this ache in my hamstring and sometimes my calf when it is really bad I can start to get pins and needles and numbness in my foot. Doesn't stop me running but it aches pretty much all the time and does take some of the pleasure away from the run on occasions.
DS2 - sorry to bring up the subject again. Suffice to say that you're the first person who's been asked by Minni for a sub-aqua picture. If I were you I'd keep Mrs DS2 away from this thread or she'll get the wrong idea.
Just 3 nice gentle miles for me this morning as I wanted a breath of fresh air, but also needed a recovery rather than anything more intensive. Probably go short but quick tomorrow morning, then rest on Friday (as I'm driving down to Taunton and back during the day) followed by a final assault on sub-19 before the parkrun course changes to one slightly more undulating.
Not heard of that one Minni- will have to look it up...
A bit lively on here today.
Belated welcome to the thread Minks
Nice post mara sesion Ant, your planned half sounds like a good weekend jolly.
Good luck in your 5k on Friday Mennania.
Decent pace on your 800's Fraser.
AR, I tired that 10k plan this week too. Was supposed to be 2 miles then 4 x 1 mile, but ended up with 2 miles @ 6.07 pace then 3 x 1 mile (@ 6.02, 5.58 & 6.12). Mind you the steady run home was 7.02 pace. Next week will try to do the 2 milesd then 4 x 1 mile.
Minni, his bread might not be buttered on that side!
Blisters - that doesn't sound a pleasant experience!
One Gear/AR - Piriformis syndrome is something I suffer from as well. I find that I can feel it on every run but it doesn't get any worse - just discomfort.
Funnily enough, I have had a couple of massages in the past month or so and they really helped. In fact I ran my marathon on Sunday with no discomfort in that area. It made me remember how running used to be. I have found it really restricting when I have wanted to run faster.
Lorenzo - no chance of Mrs DS2 reading these threads. She doesn't take too much interest in my running exploits although she has got better over the years and did actually text me on Sunday to see how it went.
KR - I used to regularly do that session of 1x2 miles and 4x1 mile in my previous marathon life. I loved it - then again I was nearly 20 years younger and not sure my body would cope that well nowadays. I might try it again in a few weeks. I fancy injecting a bit more speed into my running.
Wheres the Keir 10k Plan to be found please? Edit - found it!
11k with 2 at 5k pace for me last night - struggled with first one at 3.45 but coasted the second one at 3.30 pace.
Like many on here I am looking to concentrate on the shorter stuff for a while.
Minni - getting in that first run after a break is a always a good feeling!
TAR - gives a whole new meaning to 'white van man'.
Ant - very tidy intervals.
PMJ - "The hard bit is the race when you have to do them back to back with the rest, the training is much easier." Exactly!
Frazerelli - nice set of 800s.
AR - sounds like a worthwhile trip to the fizz.
Bike It - enjoy your taper in Japan.
SD - good evening run.
Lorenzo - good luck with the sub 19 attempt.
KR - good 10k session.
Mennania - good fast running.
Plans for an 8 mile steady run last night were scuppered, so had to get up at very silly o'clock (even for me) to fit it in this morning. Turned out at 2M easy, 4M MP and 2M HMP. Oops.
Minks – welcome. on some GPS models you can plot a route on the computer, upload it and then just run following a line on the screen - if you want to try out new routes without gettign lost
AR – hope that your legs/ new stride are working out well
Moof- I’m also targeting an autumn half and full, though sub 80 is not on my mind.
Bike It – hope the ankles calm down
SD – nice evening run
Blisters – that sounds like a terrible day out
OG – I’ve had a bit of piriformus syndrome before and found a foam roll quite useful. Put the ankle of the glute affected on the knee of the other leg, and roll on the bad glute until you swear loudly, then hold it there
Lorenzo – good luck for parkrun – it’s a pity they’re changing the course to be slower
KR – nice intervals,
Mennania – I enjoyed your Hunt Mode, I came around a corner onto the longest straight on my run yesterday to see a neon yellow figure in the distance and practically saw red cross hairs appear, I had to work hard not to lose track of the session.
Gul – early by your standards is quite something.
I have just started on my plan for Autumn marathon (can you start too early?), and was planning to do the first few weeks of P+D, then start the program from the beginning again but with a few extra miles each week
After reading the recent talk on the Sub 3 thread about tempos (at MP+30s for example) I have done a few of these.
On Tuesday I did 9M w/ 4 miles aiming for threashold pace, but couldn't go fast enough, but when I got home and looked at the splits I had done 4 miles at HMP with a HR slower than MP HR. I put this down to tired legs from Sundays Long Run and a CV system that’s stronger than my legs are fast.
Then yesterday I did 11M w/ 8@MP+30s, and it all felt easy.
What I guess I’m getting at is what do I need to address to get things back in order, MP feels hard work, but then a few seconds a mile slower and I can do it all day- should I be doing more 10k pace stuff?
Also I’ve started looking at my running efficiency in terms of beats per mile, but have found that I’m a lot more efficient (less beats per mile) when I’m doing tempos like yesterday than I am when out for a nice easy recovery, does this tally with others experiences? I know that recoveries are done on tired legs and sessions on fresh(er) legs, but this seems more than that.
And finally, I have a strange desire to one day join the 100 marathon club (only 99 to go!), but want to go sub 3 first and then go for quantity over quality. Was thinking of doing a few as LSRs over the summer- is this ill-advised?
Now I've written all this I realise there's loads of it, sorry.
JD3, I wouldn't worry about hitting the MP just yet, and concentrate on the endurance/base building. What sort of mileage are you on at the moment?
DS2 - Mrs KR has no interest in running let alone reading about it too! I think it is only people who actually run that once they get the running bug, actually want to find out more/talk about how to improve etc, so I'm not suprised she's not interested.
5 miles last night in 32.27. Was going to build it up steadily, but the first mile was 6.27 so just hung on!
Race T-shirt spotting this morning in Japan:
1x Edinburgh Marathon Festival worn by a dignified gentleman probably in his seventies
1x Tokyo Marathon 42.195km - just the sort of accuracy the Japanese go for
1x100km event
I had to hurry homeward bound as a boy who looked to be about eight who had just finished football practise with his Dad was beating me on his run home...
DS2 -interesting what you say about the massage and piriformis. During training for VLM when it starts to really ache I do wonder whether it will stand up to the race pace on the day. The last 3 VLMS I have done I have been fine on the day and I have always put it down to adrenaline/excitement of the race. However, in the week before the race I have my one and only massage of the year - never put the two things together, but food for thought even at £35/session!!!
JD3 - thanks for that, in fact when it is particularly bad someone told me to sit on a tennis ball which seems to have a similar effect!!! Funnily enough on the rare occassion where I don't run for a few days it get's better. Cold weather and 60 miles a week training seem to be the worst combination.
Hi One Gear - firstly, you realise you are one of those I intend stalking as my age races towards 50 this year!
Secondly, I have decided to have a massage once a month through the summer and see if I notice a difference. I shall report back periodically.
Good spotting Bike it.
KR - nice 'steady' effort!
I can't keep up with this thread! Have I missed anything?
I find myself agreeing with KR
JD3 All about base building at this stage
Both my wife and daughter have no interest in my running whatsoever. I believe, by taking to them all the time about running and changing any topic to a story about my running, will change their lack of interest.
I however do not agree with starting quickly and holding on
5 miles recovery tonight and both calfs felt slightly tight.
Lots of ungoing frustration, but finally managed to book an appointment with consultant for first week in June. I am quite confident I will be required to re arrange this.
I ran six progressive miles at lunch time, 8, 7.5, 7, 6.5, 6 and 8. The 6.5 and 6 felt way, way too tough.
Glute and hip felt ok but are grumbling just a little now. My right Achilles is a bit tender.
That the trouble when you have one niggle you end up chasing others all around your legs.
JD3- 18 weeks of P&D is long enough, so just spend the next couple of months base building and getting the mileage up to a decent level. Then it will be an easier transition into the tough slog ahead.
Mennania- can you give me the link to that 10k plan, although I definitely will not, most probably, unlikely, maybe, might do it.
I did have it bookmarked but seem to have lost it.
One Gear: if you're on the Cotswold 'scarp you can't live far from me.
One Gear/DS2/ Also ran: piriformis trouble is an absolute classic runners' problem. A right pain in the arse. However, it should not cause more than a month or two's trouble. The regular physio is a must. If you're in pain, or heading that way, then every couple of weeks is a starting point. Then there is the daily stretching routine. DAILY. This is vital, and it isn't an overnight fix. Then there is the simple measure of replacing shoes often enough.
What can a physio do?
- Ok, a nice rub down of the soft tissue muscles. Iron out the knots.
- and then, the hard and deep massage aiming to stretch the stringy bits (ligaments or tendons?). These are the bits that cause us regular runners most of the pains. There's very little blood flow in them, and they are far less stretchy than muscle, but with repeated exercise you can develop greater flexibility.
Next time you carve up a nice bit of meat have a look what's in a thigh. There's meaty bits and white strings. We all focus our efforts on growing the muscle meat, but that means the strings are being pulled ever tighter. Fail to stretch often enough and you risk partial ligament detachment. Now that IS painful, and takes over a year to fix. It's more than a strain. I'd guess that all the older geezers have got some small "war wound" like this, so it's not terminal to running, it just feels it.
Hi DS2 you are now the age I was when I started running - I was only going to do VLM the once to celebrate being 50 and here I am at 57 and still doing it. As I said, I have had this piriformis problem for 3 years and I just can't shift it. The problem is I have a real aversion to stretching, I am famous for it - ridiculous really. Quite happy doing the 60 miles a week but a couple of minutes stretching and I get really bored.
Blisters - I guess you are right about the old war wounds. Funnily enough I can turn it into something positive when I am in serious training. First I think it makes me do my long runs faster just to get it over with and secondly I think it is good for mental strength. If I willingly put up with the pain for the whole time on a long training run -when I know all I have to do is stop to make the pain stop - then the pain of those last 6 miles on race day is nothing new.
Sounds familiar one gear. I never stretch much. Have found the foam roller (while watching tv) ok though, mainly just sitting on it and working the glutes.
Cheers Blisters - joint of beef ordered for Sunday
JD - no harm in the occassional long run if that is your penchant. As moof says, 18 weeks is a long slog, so build the base mileage in the ways you enjoy - stay fresh!
First foray into the 10k world tonight. A fairly small race series of 5 or 10k around Dinton Pastures near Reading. Very nice setting, well organised and chip timing. I only bought a place for the first race to see what it is like.
Off on the hooter, and we are away with about 10 ahead of me. I soon pass 6 of them and everyone settles into their pace. The leader hares off into the distance.
.... uum this is feeling like tough going
.... uum what pace am I doing - slower than half marathon pace - eh?
.... what about heart rate? Oh god 92% of max
.... where the hell is the 1K marker
.... why didn't I go for a nice 20 miler instead. Stupid short races
And so on it went. Can't say I enjoyed it at the time, and I stressed about my pace. I totally forgot to account for the surface and some of the tight turns, and wet grass. Had I been more switched on and recognised it would be a slow surface, I would probably have relaxed more.
Managed to pass a couple more runners, heart rate levelled at 91%, and pace dropped off slightly to finish in 3rd place in 38:48, 6:15min/m which is about 5s slower pace than road HM pace. First place was about 3mins ahead of me.
So, I've been through one now and am a bit more clued up on what to expect. Will probably run the next two in the series so that I can see some progress over the next 2 months, but will target one or two road 10k's.
But what winnings though - small trophy, white beany hat(?), and a Tri Towel(?) apparently useful in triathlon transitions. New trophy cabinet will be this weekends project.
Nice report AR and congrats on the 3rd place & trophy.
JD3: "And finally, I have a strange desire to one day join the 100 marathon club (only 99 to go"
Nice work AR, never seen a trophy cabinet with a towel in it.
I have accidentally entered Windermere on Sunday, a fairly hard and relentlessly undulating course. Planning a very slow bimble to enjoy the scenery and get a few miles under the belt before attempting to HTFU over the summer. If I finish this will be mara/ultra no. 42, feeling quite motivated to get to 50 sometime soon if time and commitments allow.
MrsP hates running, but funnily enough didn't moan too much on the planes to New York, Chicago, Boston or Berlin. There's a lesson in this.
Getting late now, Gul's alarm is about to go off....
AR, Nice Podium effort
The only prizes we used to get were tales of woe, vomiting, avoiding the gingerbread man, and occassionally Poacher's minging feet (trying to forget about Ant in the bath). Not sure which ones I prefer
. AR's towel? Speedy's Wood? PMJ's shiny cup. Now is there a tenuous link with towels, wood and polishing?.....
MSE, glad to see you're moving even if it is in the wrong trousers machine.
Best be off Gul will be posting his 8mile tempo report before the sparrow's fart soon.
JD3 - I'd recommend concentrating on base-building in the lead up to P&D.
KR - very speedy 5 miler.
Bike It - nice to see the Japanese rounding to the nearest metre and not getting silly with the accuracy
SD - my family try to humour me when I talk about running, although my 12 year old daughter has a friend who is rumoured to be a rather good sprinter.
Moof - hope the niggles go soon.
AR - very impressive 10k debut - just think what kind of time you'll do once you get a bit of experience!
Poacher - accidentally entered Windermere?! BTW I only switch the alarm on when the whole family need to wake up early.
MsE - ART and Graston? Haven't a clue what or who they are, but pleased they are helping.
Windy - 6 mile fartlek this morning at the more usual time of 5:15 am. Somehow managed to punch a lamppost and discovered that it isn't a good idea.
'Stealth lampposts' - are they the new thing in the flatlands of 'Norfolk'shire? I assume the light wasn't on, and it sneaked up on you
MsE - Great news, hope that's you off the bench now.
Poacher - See? They only remember your minging feet. And how do you accidentally enter a race, exactly?
Gul - Choose your sparring partners carefully. Good early session (what else?) from you.
AR - Yes,10ks are really horrible, aren't they? Well-battled, though, and great prizes. As you say, you'll probably find the next in the series much more manageable.
Mrs. Ant has no interest in running, either, and while I'm humoured for about 30 secs after coming home from a race, then her eyes start to glaze over. As for her family, they treat my running as if it were a horribly shameful condition like hemorrhoids or alcoholism, and refuse to even countenance the subject. So you could do the race of your life and smash a PB, and go round there and there would be nary a "well done" or "how d'you get on?" in sight.
Off out now to do - what? Something with faster chunks in the middle, maybe 2 x 3 miles @ HMP in a 9-miler. Yes, let's try that.
AR, I loathe and detest 10Ks, and consider them my nemesis distance (saying that, I'm not doing too well on the marathon front this year, which I consider my best distance
). Can't believe you can just nonchalently turn out a sub-40 10K though, there could be some even more impressive stuff to follow!
Poacher, if it's any consolation, my feet are minging too. Saw a podiatrist a couple of weeks before VLM as I had a slight peroneal tendon tear which needed laser treatment, and his first comment was, "God, your feet are a state!"
Must book in now that I'm not marathon training to get the hard skin sloughed off and my feet in a reasonable enough state that they won't clear carriages on the train when I dig out the sandals ... (although that could be useful!)
Mr Minks has no interest in running either. I do try to bore him with it every now and again but while he humours me for a few minutes, the eyes soon start to glaze over. My family think serious runners are some sort of weird sub-species but they are really proud of me, and think I'm Superwoman when I train in the full delights of the weather conditions this little island of ours likes to throw at us ...
Moof;
http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/performance-page-best-10k-workout -
This is it (I think)