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TM - I completely agree that its hard to know what healthy is. Yet lots of people seem to assume by looking at someone that they can say if they are healthy or not (hence the many comments people on here receive about looking underweight). Noticeably we generally accept those comments as being ok. I'm pretty sure if I commented on the amount of weight some of the girls in my office have put on in the last year that would be considered rude - but its ok for people to comment on the amount of weight I've lost - even when those comments are quite clearly not intended to be complimentary. But anyway - thats a bit of a different topic....
I'm another one that struggles between eating enough to train but still losing weight - its a hard one to get right - though I think rather bizarrely that its gets easier as you train more. But I can do better at it anyway (less/no alcohol would be a good start). I'd like to be 55kgs by June for an attempt on my half PB. I'm currently 61kgs having been 70kgs at the start of 2007. Even at 55kgs I'll still be overweight by Horwills standards for sure but lighter than I've been since junior school.
This week I'm running an interns induction course for three days then attending a two day conference. Plus there's a client christmas function and an internal work function. This does not bode well for healthy eating /drinking. May need to start next week.
I'm 5'10'' and have had interesting weight experience since the middle of the summer.
At the start of August I weighed in at around 74 kgs, over the next two+ months I dropped to something like 68 kgs.
THis was due to a combination of factors- mostly that I hadn't run properly for 15 months due to injuries and had ended up over-eating a touch (before I got injured I was around 63 kgs). Consequently whilst I have trained back up the weight has dropped like anything and race performances have gone from just under 18 minutes for the 5k down to a sub 33:30 10kesque performance.
I wasn't dieting particularly- I skipped breakfast or drank a smoothie, had a big mixed grill or pizza for lunch most days and then had a big evening meal- some snacks but actually I was pretty good on those and worked out my average calories per day was almost dead on 2500.
Tables etc. suggest 62-64 should be my optimum so as I approach that (don't have a scale at uni so no idea what current weight is) will definitely need to think about increasing calories.
Oh and on the image issues...
I get quite a few more comments when I wasn't running to the effect that I was looking in good health (also helped that muscle mass increased)- to be totally honest the best runners don't look as healthy as they would with more body fat on - but the simple fact is that it lets you run your best. The important thing is to make sure it is controlled and kept in balance which is something that can easily go wrong...especially when running overver 50 miles a week (to degrees the more you do the worse it gets) when people think that because they're "running" they should be dieting as well to get fit when actually they should keep it constant as they need more energy. Seems so odd to eat huge meals compared to everyone else around you but it's actually almost essential once you're down to your target weight.
The question is would I run sub 70 if I weighted 64kgs ?
here are some small end figures which may add something to the stats
5 feet 1 and a half - 6 st 12
the same size as heile and kylie but there the similarities end
this gives a bmi of borderline underweight but people who know me will confirm i am most certainly not skin and bone, just generally small.
also i have annoyingly regular periods and am rarely ill.
once upon a time i was a reasonably decent club runner. now fairly competitive in F45 group but nothing outstanding - recent half of 1.35 and nothing better than 44mins this year for 10k but going all out for a sub 43 attempt next month.
during my best years i had a half pb 0f 1.27, 5k of 19.xx and regularly ran around 40 mins for 10k - and have pretty much had the same bodyweight throughout adult life.
the interesting bit for the figures though is my 10k pb was out of line at 38.34 - off quite hard training work but also lower mileage.
the reason i think it's interesting is because at that time i suffered quite bad stress related stomach problems and was down to 6st 9. only a 3lb difference but probably worth about half a stone on a bigger person and giving me i reckon about 2mins difference
one or two people have mentioned about the clothes issues - i agree it's getting worse as the average body size is getting bigger they resize everything
some of the low weights you guysare talking about scare me.
I weigh in at well over 200lb (but have quite a low bf) i dont think that i would be comfortable much below the 200 190 at apush but that would hav me in single figure Body Fat wich is too cold in the winter
I am a fast (for a vet) 100m runner but prefer long disance and regular race from 10k up to marathon to IM... but i dont think a figure of a small boy would be worth faster times ... im a man not a boy.
I know some people are natraly small (morning V) but if your not dont sweat it - enjoy your running, eat sencaby for fule, train smart and pbs may just arive
A lot of interesting points raised here....
Is it possible that Horowitz's formulae are less accurate the taller a woman gets (I'm somewhere between 5'8'' and 5'9''), as well? There is no way I could get down to the weight he recommends (54kgs?!?!?) and be able to put one foot in front of the other. I just dont see where it would come off, either. These formulae were formulated (tee hee) a couple of decades ago, no?? I think the average woman is getting taller, and i think the calculations fall off a lot here.
Also, as has been said before, elites, at their lower weights, get a lot more sleep than we do and dont have to run around after/ carry children/ battle round Sainsbury's/ refit the bathroom. They only have to run. I think that makes a BIG difference.
Jola..dont you DARE lose wieght..you look great as you are.and thin enough..you are getting faster anyway..
M. I totaly agree...I see work mates expending and needing bigger uniforms all the time..but if I dare comment no one would speak to me ever again.....but its ok for them to say I am thin enough..(although compared to most runners I am actually ..erm curvy at 5.6 and 138 lbs)........and that running is "really bad for your knees"..as they puff away on their ciggys...
Frame has also got alot to do with it,..it could never be a stone lighter and look healthy...I wear size 7.5 - 8 trainers...Clink you really are dinky...Kylie..lucky you..me ?? well !! I could pick her up and throw her over my shoulder ...
Interesting thread - I'm 6'2" and I should weigh (non-active) at 187lbs (just over 13stone). Blimey! I've NEVER weighed that much in my life! I'm currently at (i think) about 11st7lb or 161lbs which is about 2lbs overwhat the formulae says I should weigh for a distance runner. I've been that weight (or a bit less) since I was a teenager (I/m now 34) and my body shape hasn't changed one bit. I've been a cyclist since I was 18/19 and have never stopped exercising since then. I've always ridden to work, raced etc and I eat like a horse
Yeah sorry if that annoys you.... The lowest I've been is 11st1lb and I got measured at 7.9% body fat. I have no issues with infections/colds etc any more than anyone else on this board so I don't buy that argument.
Yes, I've chosen a moniker that fits in with physical appearance but before you dismiss me as being anorexic, take a look at me first
Not as bad as you thought eh?
Nobody apart from my mother tells me I look underweight
And Clink, if dropping a stone would give me the sort of race times you've run, I might just try to persevere for long enough to notch up some lifetime PBs to brag about. Maybe it would be worth waiting till I'm in the next vet category 
My arms are about the same girth as Haile's legs, but I don't want the benefits of weight loss enough to give up climbing.
MM - I'm the same height as you, a fair bit havier, but must agree that the table marmite posted seems very reasonable for males of our height.
I think I was at my heaviest around the 187lbs mark, and that's when I started running because I saw myself slipping away into fatty territory. There's no way that should be 'normal' non-active weight for someone with average build.
Currently around 12st5 (173lbs) and should be able to get below 12st (been close a few times) without special measures. Getting down to 159lbs would require a lot of discipline and/or hard training, but doesn't seem obsessive or unhealthy.
Matchstick man..a fine figure of a man ....you dont actually look too thin..what sort of times do you run...as for eating like a horse...well so do I really...once I start upping my mileage...over 50 seems to be the point where I am constantly hungry...and have to have a massive bowl of porridge before I go to bed or I cant get to sleep because of the hunger pangs....
As for colds etc...I will regret saying this ...famous last words and all that..I had the flu...proper flu about 6 years ago.....and not a sniffle or sneeze since....and out of 17 years working for NHS could count on my 2 hands the number of sick days...so neither the night shifts OR running have been bad for me..in fact I say its because I DO run...I can cope with nights...
Imski - "Getting down to 159lbs would require a lot of discipline and/or hard training, but doesn't seem obsessive or unhealthy."
There's the rub - there are people on here better than I am (by quite a distance) who would benefit from losing weight but there is a flip side with people like me - I weigh the "correct" weight but need to up my hours to get to where the good guys are.
Weight does matter but you need to optimize your hours and mileage to really succeed imo. If you're clocking good times and you weigh a bit more than you should but you're happy within yourself there's no problem. I trained for a local half about 5 weeks ago and just by raising my hours and intensity in the run-up to the race, I trimmed down in weight as I was burning up more calories than I was expending. I honestly think that the majority of us could easily lose the weight by cutting out the alcohol and sweets and doing a few more hours a week....
Night Nurse Matchstick man..a fine figure of a man ....you dont actually look too thin..what sort of times do you run
from this year:
5km - 19m57s / 5mile - 33m09s / 10k - 43m09s / Half 90mins
nothing earth shattering but then I only do 3 and bit hours a week max.
A very good thread....
I'm 6'3" and about 150 lbs when wet through......I should be around the 173 lb mark.
However, I would say that I'm around my optium running weight. My weight hasn't changed in about 3 years - since I went from approx 190 lbs to 150 lbs over about 4 years purely through cardio-vascular exercise and running with very very minor diet changes.
I have taken between 5 and 10 minutes off all of my previous PBs this year - between 10 miles and full marathons.
Wish I could get away with only just over 3 hours training a week. My marathon training was based on 12 weeks at 70 mpw (8 hours a week).
Should I try and increase my weight with more muscle?
This is me at 15st 5lbs doing Woking Half Oct 2005:
That was me at Bolton 10k 13st 12lbs May 2006...
Thjis is me at New York marathon (2h55m05s) Nov 2006 at 12st 13lb:
This is me in January after 2 weeks on Atkins diet dieing in Helsby Half 12st 4lbs Jan 2007
This is me at my "peak"in May 2007 Edinburgh marathon 12st 10lbs
The plan is now, after being out since July 16th with a stress fracture for 19 weeks... to get below 12 stone and stay there. I reckon my perfect race weight would be 11st 7lbs... at that point, it'd be ability that limits me not weight!
From above, my PB's have come down from 19 minutes 5k to 17 minutes, half from 1:32 to 1:18, marathon from 3:32 to 2:51
Pug
I agree with MM, weight loss is only one part of the equation, and needs to be coupled with optimal training, both in terms of miles and pce/speedwork
(Vrap, have you noticed the sort of speed sessions clink regularly does, and I bet did more of during her 'best running days' ?
)
WOW Pug that is an amazing improvement...but it must not only be due to the weightloss...I agree you must also put the hours in..
MM good times there..on what looks like minimal training to be honest...
MM good times there..on what looks like minimal training to be honest...
sorry I missed out 68mins for 10 miles as well
Most amount of hours/miles I've ever done in 1 week is 4h39mins / 37miles. Looking back through the 10 weeks before the local HM I was doing approx 3hrs03mins to 3hrs 22mins / 24-27 miles a week spread over 3 or 4 sessions fairly consistently. My endurance comes from 15 years of cycling background so I tend to concentrate on shorter, harder runs with only 1 run a week over an hour in length. I've yet to run (this year) for longer than 92mins in one go and any runs I've done over 75mins can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Well This hotting up to be a fab and interesting thread but also dangerous but we all make choices in life.
I have drafted in a diet support person so if I am tempted to diviate he will kick me up my backside and steer me away
Will only weigh in once a week and I have no intention on advice of going below 8st.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
i weighed myself yesterday and am now trying to lose at least 5-6lbs before Christmas. I've got a run around then and just after so I'll be interested to see how I do. I'm flippin starving though....all that homemade soup with lots of pulses and mixed bean chilli is playing havoc with my insides....
Good plan WelshP - can I borrow your backside kicker??!!
Confusion abounds..............there's "M", then there's "MM" and there's "mmmmm....m"!!!!!!!
NN,
Thanks for raising the issue of eating disorders. Obviously, no one wants to see this happen to ourselves or each other because of some misguided notion regarding optimum performance. Again, I think the safest approach, if so inclined, is to lose a little and then assess all aspects of the consequences. Clearly, many of us want to run as well as we can, but not at any expense.
"M",
Thanks for clarifying. It seems the key thing is to ensure that a balanced and nutritious diet is being consumed at all times so as to avoid any possibility of osteoporosis or the like.
WP,
Please do keep us posted.
Mike S,
I'm bound to pick up something at some point this winter so I'll let you know the outcome relative to previous infections when I was heavier.
Treadmill,
True, same goes for primates.......but they don't look terribly happy. Totally agree that if females are having irregular/disrupted/non-existent menstruation then this is not a good sign.
Gobi,
Well run at Gosport - if you're 11st 9lb (74kg) now and you're running 74-75 min for the half, if you got down to the 64kgs you're proposing I reckon you'd be running 66-70 mins for the half.
the issue is being able to handle the training volume with the reduced muscle mass which in some ways protects me, ideally I'd like to see if I can get to 70 and see what difference that makes first.
G
I've skipped some posts as time rolls on but will read back later.
Perhaps the ideal weight for those of us who train and race regularly, is the average weight over the period we have been regularly training. Assuming the aim of running was n't that of losing weight.
Today I'm going to write a list of the j'unk food' that I eat and work out what I can cut out completely.
I aim to loose 2 stones overall, with a 2lbs loss per week !
That'll take me to my target weight and 10k time.
'Interesting, Very Interesting !' as Barry Davies would say.
This topic, I mean.
Bedshaper- My backside kicker is superb I am sure I can hire him out, I text him when i am feeling hungry and he makes sure I am not tempted and secretly I think he is enjoying himself.
Are you a vegertarian/vegan?
I am trying to cut the carbs and eat more protien which is harder than I thought.
Good luck everyone
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
however - i don't think you should get hung up on the weight that frank horwill says you "need" to be. it's not an absolute rule of the universe. it's a bit like the "increasing mileage at 10% a week" b*ll*x, that some people seem to take as gospel. it isn't, it's just "be careful" with a built in guideline.
I'm not so sure about the 1.8 seconds a mile, I think it is more of a declining curve with substantial gains at the heavier end adn minimal the lighter and closer to ideal weight one gets.
However, using myself as an example, I think I'll go with it as if I ever got to 10 or 11 stone again from my current 15 I would be runnig 22-22.30 for 5 miles based on my 31.06 last night compared to a best of 26mins