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sub-2:30 marathon
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Gobi,
Don't wish to seem like I'm being unduly harsh, but I think Shinfield 10k is almost certainly a short course.
For starters, as you mentioned over on Fetch, the course measured 150m short on your Garmin. But the "giveaway" is that the chap who won it (Chris Bradfield) has regularly run a "best time for the year" at Shinfield (i.e. 4 out of the last 5 years, he's run a PB the course, a 10k PB for him by 40-55 secs each year). Furthermore, results from this years race reveals that out of the 26 athletes tracked by ahtleticsdata.com 14 ran PBs at that race, which seems an unusally high number, and a total of 23 out of 26 ran a seasons best. Now, of course, it could just be a very quick course, but I'd immediately be suspicious of a race that yielded that many SBs/PBs (espeically in light of your inability to break 17 min in a 5k). All things considered it seems likely that the course is ~400m short.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings!.
about 150s short Chris also had it the same as did Tim Groves who then checked it on sports tracks. That aside I would have still got a PB even 400 metres short.
Oh and as an aside, I ran 16.38 for 5km today on legs that have done 120 miles in the last week.
Nice :¬)
FF - I am doing a summer of faster work in order to reduce my 5k / 10k times and will do marathon specific training from July onwards. However my 5k pb of 16.27 and 10k pb of 33.41 indicate that I should be running faster marathons than I do, so it's just a case (for me) of hitting the right course in the right conditions with me well enough fuelled without being overfuelled. I did manage all that a couple of times 4 years ago...
Gobi - do you mean Tim Grose at AthleticsData.com? He is very efficient at noting short courses, as I understand he has removed the Blackpool Marathon from the rankings already. So 150 short would be about 30 secs for you, so still a good pb and in line with your 5k time today (given the fact BPTT is a bit multi-terrain I understand). All academic anyway, as you say, you are an ultra runner. I would be very interested if at some point this year you decided to take a down week and throw in a shorter distance race at the end. Any plans for that?
There was a guy who used to post on here a few years ago called TwoTon, so called because he ran that weekly mileage on occasions! He said his pbs came off no tapering and we're talking a sub 50 10m here too. Maybe he had a body like Gobi that goes into shock if it doesn't get at least 2 runs per day!
I note Tim Grose has one or two listings himself on AD...
http://www.athleticsdata.com/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=628
Just depends how I feel after Comrades.
I remember twotons.
I am now on an easy week before my 100km so for the first time since the week before London I am doing low mileage(40-60) and may even have two rest days.
Long term targets are the marathon and the ultras anything fast is a bonus.
Gobi,
Excellent 5k PB, especially on the back of a big week. As you say, the 10k would have been a PB regardless of whether it was 150m or 400m short. It's just a bit galling when you race and run what you think is a PB only to discover that the course is short. Nevertheless, you're obviously making great strides (pun intended). Which 100km are you doing and do you have a target in mind? Best of luck with that. Let us know how you get on.
Hilly,
When I first started using a HR monitor a few years back I did, as you suspected, discover that I was running all of my easy runs too hard. Discovered I was running some of my hard runs too hard too!
FF,
Like BR, I'm going to focus on improving times at shorter distances for the next ~10-12 weeks (as suggested by BEJ and Padams) before turning my attention back to the marathon. If I can't run the times I'll need at shorter distances to hit my target for the marathon I'll probably give the 26.2 a miss until next year. However, I do find that committing to the race tends to make me disciplined in my training which is definitely going to be required to get the improvements over shorter distances that I require.
Celtic Plate in Wales target 7.40 ish. I can live with the short course as it still supplied all the necessary confidence boost I needed.
This thread's gone quiet, so thought I'd give a bit of an update before Edinburgh next weekend.
Had a big confidence boost this morning by knocking 30 secs off my 5k PB with 15:31 at the Bushey Park time trial. Was shocked that I managed that time (had been hoping to break 16), especially as I had a bit left in the tank, was running alone for 90% of the race and the course is half on grass, half on dirt trails.
Will let you know how Edinburgh goes, but hopefully it will at least live up to the title of this thread!
Cheers Coro. Based on yesterday's run, I think I could go sub-32, as 16 minutes yesterday would have felt comfortable enough to do twice I think.
I doubt I'll get the chance to race R G-B much this summer. The first two MWRRL races will be affected by Edinburgh (pre and post), and the third is the same day as an aquathlon (500m swim, 5k run) which I won last year, so am doing again this year. The aquathlon is in the morning, so I'll still do the race in the evening but might be a bit tired. I should be able to have a proper run in the St Albans fixture and the Mob Match though.
Not sure sub-2:25 is on just yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm in better shape than for Berlin 8 months ago.
NICE
Quick update from Edinburgh if anyone's still here...
Ran 2.29.05, lost a lot of time in the middle miles due to a strong headwind from 4-18. Was too tired after the turn at 18M to make much back, and was completely alone in the last 10k. Reasonably pleased considering the conditions (still a small PB), and came 5th, in amongst some decent runners. Also won me some decent prize money! Shame about the wind, because I really feel I had a 2:25 in me.
Never mind, maybe next time!
it was tough up there, you ran well and won money and in the name of the thread it was sub 2.30.
For those interested I ran a controlled 2.40.42. Steady all the way with 26 miles all within 6.02 and 6.08. Not a focus race for me and frankly given the weather all I could have found were 2/3 mins in that wind for a lot of effort. Not worth it, I passed a number of people I know who had gone for the sub 2.30 and ended up paying by running in excess of 2.41.
Just makes Padams run even more impressive.
Well done mate.
That's a superb run in poor conditions. Massive congrats. A couple of mates were there and finished rather slower than they had hoped owing to the conditions. I think your assessment of being in 2:25 shape is spot on and I've no doubt you'll nail that down when you get the chance of better weather. Great to hear you were in the money too. A 2:29 is outstanding running. Well done.
Sorry if you've explained this earlier and I missed it.
Aba2005,
I think a few others have also made huge improvements, for instance, Marders jump from 2:58 to 2:28 in one go over a period of 7(?) months blew my mind! To answer your question, I never had any base speed and still don't!!! I've never run a fast mile or 5k and definitely think that longer distances are my 'relative' strength. Certainly, tools like the McMillan calculator indicate that the half marathon and marathon are my best distances, but this is likely due to the fact that they are the only distances that I've really focused on during the last few years. Trying to improve 5M/10k times during this Spring/Summer in the hope that this will translate into a quicker marathon in the autumn.
How do your race times over shorter distances stack up against your marathon times?
MARMITE:
Never done a half or marathon before and never raced before, I only have two times: 5:55 for a mile in sport relief 2006 (should have been about 15 secs faster but set off too slow) and 20.16 for three miles in sport relief 2008 (After a year of no running whatsoever in 2007 and one run per week from Jan 2008).
My one run per week was for the 3 miles was slightly slower than tempo pace 24 mins for 3 mile 40 for 4.5 and I did a fast 3 mile and 1.5 mile in the week before that.
I'm hoping to start train properly for running for the first time in a couple of months (currently not allowed to run by physio due to tendon trouble with knees but shouldn't have any problems when cleared as its not serious and wasn't caused by running, I could run now but trying to be disciplined and concentrate on strenthening my knees before I start doing sport again, its hard though!!!). Will be training with the plan being to enter the Rotary Shakespeare half marathon in April 09, I've set myself a target of at least 1 hr 30 mins (Do you think thats ambitious?). I also aim to do one or two 10ks before that but not sure where or when yet.
BTW: I'll probably be following the FIRST 3 runs a week plan when I start running again, as I like to play basketball and I'm enjoying swimming while I can't run or play basketball so I might stick with it
Don't see myself doing a marathon for a while as I would rather get faster at shorter distances first before entering a marathon.
What were your times for shorter distances before and now?
Aba2005,
Very best of luck with the return to training post-injury. Easy does it! A 20:16 off the back of one run per week is astonishing. Think if you can gradually work into some significant weekly mileage that you'll be going like stink.
In terms of times over shorter distances, the only ones I can remember off-hand are 33:31 10k (Dec 07) and 33:54 10k (Apr 08) prior to 2:34 marathon (Apr 08), and 35:11 10k (Sep 05) prior to 2:43 (Sep 05) marathon. I'd have to pull out some old logs to look up previous times.
Let us know how you get on. Cheers
Padams- may see you in the mob match...not quite as quick as you are these days but I'm still getting back into shape. Awesome running at Edinburgh though.
R B-G is such a quality runner when he's on form. Sub 15 5ks don't happen easily!
FWIW I'm hoping to go sub 2:30 in either my first or second marathon. Thinking about trying to convince my coach to let me go for one next year but may not happen... Still got a lot to come at 5k and 10k though.
Hi HH, not seen you around for a while. Not sure who's leading our head-to-head, but I remember you beating me in a 5k a while back, and I think I beat you in a XC at some point! I expect you'd still get close to (or beat) me over 10k or less.
Based on the times you were running last time I saw you, I would have thought you could go sub 2:30 with the right training. You've got at least 10 years until you reach your marathon peak as well, so no rush I guess! Would be good to see you at London next year though - you could find a fast HM in October/November and get a champ qualifying time.
It would be nice to get close to R B-G this summer (I did actually beat him in a 3.5M off-road relay leg last year!), and he only got back into proper training a month or so ago after an injury, so you never know. He still ran 15:20 with no competition the other day though!
Did my first run since Edinburgh last night, 8M easy with clubmates. Hip still feels a bit sore, so will just do a very short easy run today and try a new stretch for the ITB.
Marmite:
Thanks for your kind words. I agree with what you were saying about the training mileage, i'm sure with training I can do a 1.30 half marathon as IMO all that entails is increasing my ability to run long distances by running more miles. Just have some doubts about how much speed I can gain from training (hence the question about how much you had improved by in your shorter distances). I guess we will see next year April!!!
>you could find a fast HM in October/November
I would suggest the Great Eastern Run in Peterborough on Oct 12th. Fast, flat and the weather in Oct can be ok. I ran it last year to get the sub-75 champ start time; this year the aim will be to get as close as possible to sub-70.
>Do you have to have run a marathon or do they accept fast half marathon time
Only for the champ start and you will need to run sub 1:15 before the end of 2008. You can qualify for the Good For Age start by running a full marathon in under 3:00 (3:45 for a woman) before Aug. The ballot is now closed so the only other way to get a place is via a Golden Bond by running for a charity and raising >£1K in sponsorship.
That 5k was ridiculous...think it was the last one in the Stevenage series? Neither me nor Kev wanted to let the other guy lead so we hammered the first k in 2:48, second k was 5:52, third k was 8:58 and then we both started to die but me far more horrendously than him!
Good work on beating Richard. Chap is such a huge talent but also no quite at that "other level" that Kev is that makes them near unbeatable. Richard you know that if you're on top of your game and he's having a bad day you have a chance! Be nice to see a few people genuinely pull close to him though.
Just been putting my team together and as a conservative estimate reckon we'll be 2 minutes faster as an absolute minimum than last year. Slowest leg on the team could well be under 9:20...
33.27 for 10km off road today 3mins and 1 second faster than last year and finished second overall. This was 13 seconds slower than Shinfield. The interesting bit was that I met the race director from Shinfield and he informed me the course was measured 4 times and in his opinion was accurate.
The guy who won today is a 54.xx 10miler and he ran 33.10.
Looking forward to Yateley.
G
HH - yes, that was the 5k where you beat me. That was my first ever 5k actually, think I did 16:17. I do remember going through 1k faster than I'd ever run 1k on a track (think it was close to 3), and I was way off the leading pack!
We will have some teams out for the FVS relays, but doubt we can compete with you guys if your slowest runner is 9:20! The best team we could get together would have something like one possibly just under 9, one around 9:15, one around 9:30 and the others high 9s. And I doubt I will convince all them to run!
Padams,
Would you mind posting a couple of weeks of your training from the run-up to Edinburgh? Be really interested to see what you were doing in terms of mileage and quality.
Thanks.