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GFA? is it possible for the average person?
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GA - Sorry x -post. I'm sure that no one on here means to belittle the time and commitment that you have shown. When you say that you followed the sub 3:45 schedule to the letter, does that mean you ran all the scheduled speed sessions at the pace stated and did you do all the long runs? You appear to have the determination needed but it's about getting the training right for you. What went wrong in the race itself? Did you go out too fast or did you run an even pace and fizzle out at the end? If you want to outline how your marathons have gone then there are plenty of experts around on these forums who would be able to suggest specific training for you.
Nightnurse I so agree, They say "Running a Marathon what time are you expecting" I tell them "I just want to finish" but you are right , people think I am mad that i run this type of distance and when i tell them i do triathlons aswell then they really are impressed.
So to all of you enjoy the less you stress abou time the better you get.
Leave the watches and Garmins at home. ENJOY. Once you start beating yourself up about times etc, the joy of running leaves you and you will miss out on so much if that happens.
How would you feel if you did not want to run anymore. Even more demoralised
Remember he who dares.......................................So Dare
Gaynor - yes I am a member of a running club and have been a coach for one too. I am not running a LOT of junk miles - I will admit to some because I do love to run. I know what I am doing - I wasn't moaning in an attempt to get some advice - I have access to a lot of excellent coaching, knowledge and advice. Thank you for the sentiments above. I agree with you entirely about finishing whatever the time.
The point I was trying to make was that we are all different and not all of use react in the same way to a particular method of training. Some of us take longer than others. I think that I WILL acheive a GFA time and I am glad that it exists because it is something to aim for.
What I object to is the sentiment that it's a lack of training or determination that is the only hindrance to a GFA time.
(and i do think it's an easier standard for the women - by quite a bit)
and I do wonder: Are you faster BECAUSE you run 70 miles a week or do you run 70 miles a week BECAUSE you are faster.
(there has to be a 'tipping point' in there somewhere - I hope i reach it soon
)
Caterpillar girls - yes I ran the sessions at the times specified, did all of the long runs. Okay life did get in the way of some of the sessions as I would assume it does for everyone.
On the day - fizzled big time. Lack of speed endurance. Plus I think the crowds did for me a little. I jumped around a bit too much if you know what I mean. (It was FLM)
This time around I am doing a sh*t load of the longer long runs to hopefully remedy that. (hence cold after cold after cold but I will not give in) and It's a quieter marathon so fingers crossed.
GA- I hope you didn't think i was patronising but i just wanted to know if you were overdoing it because let's be fair we have all been there i know i have and trained so hard i got slower and slower. So i took a good look at my training and changed it. My running took on a whole new attitude.
10 years ago i weighed 13st 7lbs, lost 3st 7lbs and went to a gym ran on a tread enjoyed it so much i went on the road and started running slowly. I was never one for sport, but somehow once the weight went i discovered i had an ability to run, Not sure where it came from but run i could and i have just kept on running. I will admit that the older I am getting the faster I am getting but i would never even think of running 70 miles a week, not sure if i would want to and certainly not sure if it would make me better or faster.
But we all need something to aim for and i am sure you will achieve GFA at the end of the day we are all strive to get better in what ever we do.
GA you go out there and enjoy. Forget times just run, and be happy you will see a difference.
No, not at all Gaynor . Most of the time I do run for the sheer enjoyment of it - but I like to follow a structure and so nearly always train to a plan. (sad geek what can I say) Am happy running along - then I go race and it's like - WHAT - why so slow??? But I am getting there.
GA you go for it.... If you are a sad geek then we all are.
I ahve girls in my club who are sloe and they are the happiest people you would ever want to run with. They work so hard to achieve the rimes they want, sometimes i run with them and realise how hard they train, they hate me running with them (LOL) as i drag them around ion a much faster time than they would normally run. But they do love me for it.
I love running sadly i have a real sore knee and will have to rest up for a week, so i will have to swim instead, not quite the same as getting outside and running.
Remember Nothing is impossible
You go and achieve
My 3:45 was the result of less than 40 miles a week for the 16 weeks leading up to London. That included 1 speed session each week plus an occasional extra hill session (maybe 4 or 5 in total). I ran 5 days a week and x-trained one day. I only managed to fit in 2 x 20 and 1 x 22 as LSRs becuase I raced shorter distances instead of some long runs. I deliberately reduced my training to that level as I got injured training for my previous marathon. I tried to ensure all runs had a purpose (i.e. no 'junk' miles) and I really think that helped.
(I followed the 3:45 plan for my first marathon and was no where near (4:23) but really learnt from my mistakes and applied that this time round)
I find "junk miles" a very strange concept to deal with and probably a sign that someone has lost their sense of proportion somewhere.
Any mile run is someone getting off their heiney and challenging themselves.
I think that sometimes runners take what they do for granted and forget that getting out there is a small victory in itself.
but saying "i followed a 3:45/3:00 schedule to the letter" is TOTALLY missing the point!
those schedules are the bare minimum that somebody who was already fast enough to run a GFA time would have to do to be confident of performing on the day. if somebody who is fast enough to run a 5 hour marathon follows a 16 week 3:45 schedule to the letter, they will probably do 5 hours. maybe 4:45.
wot the "anybody can run a GFA if they train hard enough" people on this thread have agreed (including eg Running Commentary, who thinks that not anybody can run a GFA, because most people don't have the committment) is that it would take 2 years of consistent focussed effort. that's when you're capable of running 70-100 miles per week without injury. so, add a year, to get there.
i'm happy to put my money where my mouth is - i'll give odds of 20:1 that anybody on this thread will run at least a GFA time, in three years, if they follow my instructions. if we don't need the first conditioning year (ie if you have been running 50 mpw for a few years without injury) then two. if we need the conditioning year, it will go like this:
start off one day running, next day rest (etc) at 3 hours per day - right at the bottom of your aerobic range. so probably to start off with, 50/50 jog/walk. within 4-6 months, you should be jogging all the way round, for 3 hours, one day on one day off. no speedwork at all in the first year. after this 4-6 months, we'll add shorter sessions in some of the rest days. you'll need a garmin 305 (1 for heart rate control, but 2 to send me downloads after every run). by the end of this slow, laborious first year, you'll be up to 12 hours per week running with no ill effects. then for the next two years, we can maintain the miles but gradually add in some harder and faster stuff. very gradually, to avoid injury. oh, and no drinking in year 3.
if you get a GFA, or deviate from the plan, you pay £500 to a charity of my choice. if you don't, i pay £10,000 to a charity of your choice.
who's up for it?
If all this seems like too much of a committment, then that's preciselt the point of the thread - anybody COULD do a GFA, but most people can't be arsed to do what it takes. of course some people can do it on just 3 months of half-assed training. bully for them!
I haven't read all of this thread but my story is this.At the age of 46 (4 years ago) I started running and enjoyed it.Started running while working away from home with a friend who told me to enter London.I said I would only do it if I could go under 3:30. 18 months later I ran Abingdon in 3:35.
After being rejected by FLM I thought I would try to get in for a GFA. I have follewd schedules and I have mixed and matched. I have peaked my mileage at 72 in a week and averaged 55 over the training period, but I have not got a GFA! I have had two near misses. 2 years ago at Stratford I ran the marathon in3:16:46 and then in Paris two weeks ago in 3:16:28. I will try agin in October in Abingdon but although I still think I can do it, I am not as confident as I was 3 years ago.
(Paris was my most relaxed marathon ever (also my 11th). I enjoyed it all.I never hit the wall.It was my quads that gave out over the last three miles.The first two miles I ran under pace because of congestion and I was warming up,the last three I was just off the pace,but adding those seconds up at the start and finish cost me)
But Candy the point I was trying to make is that not everyone would need to run for 3 hours every other day to get a GFA. And I don't believe that I could do that without quickly becoming overtrained, injured and ill.
Obviously unless I quit my job, lose my husband and decide to forget what my children look like I can't take up your challenge.
I don't disagree with you that a lot of folks could get a GFA if they pulled the finger out. It's just obvious to me that the level of commitment and training required differs for different people.
that's what it would take for "anybody" - obv most people would get there quicker.
re overtraining/injury etc - actually that plan is quite safe - going very slow and having plenty of rest (alternate days) keeps cortisol levels down/glutamine levels up (to avoid overtraining) and avoids injury (it's speed that puts biomechanical strain on muscles - then distance at that speed that increases the chance of that strain causing an injury. going slow, no strain, no injury)
true enough, that committment is quite high, and most people wouldn't be able to do it (family etc). but GFA is defintiely, at least physically, "possible" for the average person.
i'm not sure why the average person would want to do all that, to be honest. getting the 3 hours would be a bit of an anticlimax. probably better to take up knitting, and use the three years more productively, eg making a really long scarf! even better, learn to play the harmonica or something. so many much cooler things than running!
This is a really interesting thread. I agree with candy to a certain extent that with that training most people but not all could do a GFA. However they would have spent three years HaCL (Having a Crap Life) .
Much as I have enjoyed reading this thread it seems to boil down to talent and training of which we are all placed on a sliding scale. There is nothing you can do to elevate your talent, it is all in the training and if you are near the bottom of the talent pile then the training required, even just to be "average" is probably insurmountable. This problem is what generates the hundreds of articles on training "secrets" and plans which WILL get you a PB. Blah bloody blah. Like there is a magic solution to being a bit of a talentless runner.
(That is not to say that talentless runners shouldnt run!)
Struthie - totally agree
It is quite striking that even in this short thread there are folks saying - I just did 'this' and got a GFA and other saying do hundred of miles and you are sure to get it.
There was a thread on here the other week where a chap was looking for help re his half marathon time - his training hadn't gone too well and he missed his goal which was a sub 2 hours. A couple of folks responded saying that his longest run had been a bit short (10 miles I think from memory).
The one chap pipes up saying that he never ran much longer than 10 miles and got a 1.35 half time -
I think that just sums it up!!
I have been following this thread with interest. A bit of background information, I am a 48 year old male. I have been running many years, but only started entering events again in the last few years. I am currently averaging about 40-50 miles a week, having built up over the last couple of years from 20-30 miles, and I sometimes get to 60 miles. I have brought my hm times down to 1:39, and am running Lochaber at the weekend. I hope to go sub 3:40. Once this is over I was thinking about raising the bar again with a view next year to going sub 3:30 and the year after that getting closer to 3:15. To achieve these goals I was thinking about getting my weekly mileage upto 60 miles over the summer.
My point is this. There must be several people on these boards that are interested in improving their performance, and getting the GFA targets. Several runners were followed on these boards as they prepared for this years FLM. So could a similar group of runners be followed, but over a 1 or 2 year period as they prepared for a GFA? Could someone approach the editors of the website to see if they are interested in making this a more formal thread similar to the FLM threads this year?