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Lucozade Sport Super Six: Right Said Aouita (3:45)
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hi all,
nick, thanks for the post and the advice, much appreciated. As i go through this schedule I am keen to learn more about the different types of running, different speeds and what my body needs for each process.
psc - I'll see if Wendy the nutrionist has any views about fluid and solid intake immediately post-run, and if there is any general advice. I tend to just drink water afterwards, but my knowledge on these things is limited at best.
rex - you are prescient in your views. marmite and toast is my nutrional spine, and it will need to be curtailed. again, i will have to ask someone with more expertise re. optimum time to eat pre-exercise.
So, this training diary thing.
I've started eating breakfast, fruit - god forbid - and generally more food during the day. The nutritionist Wendy has been in touch with some more questions and I think we're going to hear her views (moral judgement?) later this week. I think all the Super Six are dreading her saying "cut out the booze please". We'll see.
So the confidence was dented by struggling on Thursday. Communal peer pressure kicked me out of the door for the 30 Easy recovery run on Friday, and due to the minus 2 temperatures I went to the gym.
Question: why is running on a treadmill so dramatically different to running outside? Going saying 6mph on a treadmill feels like 7.5mph outside. It doesn't help that I once fell off a treadmill mid-run in Los Angeles, and all these beautiful toned gym goddesses found it quite amusing. Don't worry, i kept my British stiff upper lip and hopped back on the damn thing.
Saturday = no running, we went on wife's birthday outing to Chipping Camden (1 hr from Oxford) which is, er, very pretty with 1 pub for about every 10 houses. A tourist trap in summer, it is relatively peaceful in winter although for the ignorant male (me) its appeal is a bit limited.
Today, Sunday = 100 minutes slow. Went very well.
Had a lovely morning. Warmer day and did a crafty loop around the centre of Oxford, and saw canals frozen solid, birds looking hungry and a variety of runners looking very happy. This was a day when running is a total pleasure, a luxury really.
Without sounding too pretentious about things, I stuck a couple of BBC programs about Darwin on the ipod and the 100 minutes raced by. Normally Melvyn Bragg is too solemn for me, but Darwin's story is exceptional and not without huge blaring paralells for those of a running persuasion. This is a bit mature I know, so back to raging techno next week.
Did about 11 miles, found it quite hard to keep even pace. About half of the miles were at 09:20, then other miles fluctated from 08:30 to 10:00 (and yes, i have a garmin rather than a very good memory). Hamstrings ache a bit and the legs feel a bit heavy, but otherwise I feel good, I feel happy, lets crack onto the next week.
Tomorrow i'll put up the week 2 schedule, hope you're having / have had a good weekend.
Dan
Dan - I feel the same about the treadmill. It feels like an instrument of torture now, though it is where I started my running days. My brother in law just phoned to tell us he'd completed 10k on the treadmill - an impressive challenge indeed.
Have you had more questions from Wendy? I suspect that the fact that I'm currently doing food diaries with one of my groups of students has made my diary make me look a bit OCD.
Bring on week 2!
Hi Dan,
First off - good luck with the schedule and hoping you have as great a day as possible at FLM.
I am doing Edinburgh Marathon one month after your FLM on 31 May 2009 and so I am going to try to follow your schedule starting this week and I will see how it goes from there.
I was really pleased when I saw that your schedule would be modified to 4 days per week as I also have work and family commitments - two kids at 8 and 10 and a couple of nights a week when I have to "referee" for them while my wife works - so looking forward to see[ng how the rest of your schedule will look. Sounds like I will have to get used to running on Fridays after work and cutting out a few beers also.
Today I did the 90 min relaxed. Could not have been more different to your condition/experience today. We had rain/high winds here in Central Scotland, so really difficult to keep a consistent pace with half wind assisted and half wind hindered and its pretty hilly around here. However I was trying to keep it to around 9:15/mi and had about the same variance as you had today.
Also looking forward to seeing what your neutritional regieme will be as I don't really give it that much thought either. Sounds like you won't have to change too much - just start eating!
Good luck with the rest of the week, Dan.
Eeeeeeeek. Treadmills. Bleurgh!!!!
I'm not sure the nutritionist was over impressed with my diary efforts. I forgot to put down amounts. It was the question saying "what does a full english consist of?" that got me the most .
fat face, i'm glad you are allergic to treadmills to. they do suck and they are just hard work. the questions of 'what a full english consists of' is a good nutrional point - are hash browns now part of the UK fried breakfast? mushrooms, yes, think so. what kind of eggs? and so on. ultimately they are fats, carbs and protein, you can't go wrong.
Week 2 schedule
A day late, here is the schedule. The week starts on Sunday, not Monday in this schedule, so here is what I have:
Sun - 100 mins easy relaxed conversational pace.
Mon – Rest
Tues – 3 x 10 mins @ threshold with a 5 min jog between. Try to run with controlled discomfort but don’t push so hard that you have to slow during the 10 mins.
Wed – Rest or a Pilates class if possible
Thurs – 45 mins with middle 20 mins at marathon pace (MP) this session will build over the weeks and become key for us. Aim to run the 20 mins @ 3.45 marathon pace. This should feel a little easier than threshold but faster than relaxed running pace.
Fri – 30 min recovery run. Remember, the aim of this run is to refresh the body not add to tiredness.
Sat – Rest
I always tend to think of what the long run is at the end of the week, so I am in suspense now.
Its the greyest, wettest, most depressing day here in Oxford - hope its better with you
dan
Dan - Enjoying the posts / comments & good effort for the week. Good luck for the coming week.
HI Dan,
A great first week completed in very tough conditions Dan. Well done. Week 2 should feel fine as we continue to build up in this base phase of training.
The long run sounded beautiful and well done for avoiding the ice. Always good to feel controlled, relaxed and full of running in your long run.
Re a full english breakfast (Yep very funny!) - reward yourself with wholegrain/meal toast and scrambled eggs. Just wonderful and easy after any long run or session. A good balance also of carbs, protein and quick to prepare.
Lets keep working on the healthy snacks, breakfast theme and eating quickly after training. That 20-30 min window really does work. The rec meal/snack must include good carbs and protein although this can be tough to digest immediately after a session/run. The recovery lucozade drink is designed to make that easy and get something good inside you very early. You then should eat something more substantial asap.
PSC - read my earlier email again. I think you have missed a few points but yes you are totally right, protein and carbs must appear in the recovery meal/snack along with electrolytes etc.
So a great start Dan. The weather should be kinder this week. Have fun and listen to your body. These are early days and you are doing a fab job. Any signs of tiredness and lets talk as we can always replace a session with a recovery run or additional rest.
Have a great week,
Nick
Nick, thanks for the encouraging words. There's something about the start of January (bad weather, bad bank balance) that makes your 2009 plans seem miles off, and the London Marathon is a case in point. That said I am sure the 15 weeks are going to hit us fast than we know.
wotsit - the detail demanded in the food diary was really quite impressive. I had visions of your Olympic Redgraves / Pinsents of this world weighing out 4.37 kilos of pasta for dinner and then drinking 1.537 litres of recovery fluid. Its quite revealing though. Look forward to the results...
cheers Nick, will go back and read again (that's the trouble surfing on a blackberry, you don't always see everything)!
Dan, well done to you. That long run did sound good and you are spot on, running into the wind is a whole heap easier than cycling into the wind. Oh, and btw, there is nothing wrong with booze in moderation....
LOL Fat Face... I've become increasingly intolerant to eggs as I've got older (???) so can't have the FULL English...... but my version would include kidneys, black pudding, beans, tomatoes, bacon, along with freshly baked granary bread, lightly toasted. And of course, you could only eat that AFTER a full bowl of traditional cereals. I reckon you could have a whole thread on this.....
Good luck with this RSA
I'm going to jump in and keep an eye on this thread. I was following RichK last year, but was unable to run myself due to family problems, this year I'm also hoping for a sub3:45
I do have a question with the schedule. Do you think it would be OK to swap around the recovery run as I swim on Thursdays, meaning my key running days are Wednesday, Friday and Sundays. Any thoughts?
Does a hash brown really form part of the Full English Surely its American. like the Kidneys and Black pudding though PSC!
Hi Hess,
Yep the days you suggest for key running would work well (Wed, Fri and Sunday). They key really is to allow good recovery from the long runs as they build, and in some cases move your key session back a day rather than run tired. As the runs go over 2 hours the body might need a rest day and recovery run day before pushing harder again. Wednesday and Friday would allow this.
Just be careful that Friday is not compromised by end of working week tiredness. It can be tough to train on a Fri when you have been busy in a Monday - Friday job all week. Obviously I dont know your situation but I often advise a rest day on Friday if you work hard all week. This allows the best from your weekends training and stops the immune system being damaged on a Friday.
Hope your training goes well.
Nick
hess, psc, you have a point. Technically black pudding is the philosophical foundation of the full english, although political correctness is a real threat. there's something about the words 'pig's blood' which scares little children.
so, its week 2 already and i've been out and about on a Threshold run.
Nick's schedule asked for 3 x 10 minutes of threshold, and clad all in black like a swift Milletts ninja (although few ninjas wear cropped fluro vests) I have just been out dodging the odd physics and student on the streets of Oxford. I did 5 mins slow, then 3 x 10 minutes at threshold with 4 mins slow inbetween, and then about 5 mins slow at the end.
--I tried to go for the Jedi approach of 'feeling the threshold' rather than staring at the Garmin, but I have neither the experience nor willpower to make it last. You have to look don't you.
---So i can report with some accuracy that the slow bits were about 6mph and the threshold bits about 8mph, 07:30, which pushed me pretty hard and suffice to say the slow bits felt good.
---I was running through the town centre and received a few stares from people either leaving or entering pubs, as if to say 'look at yourself man, chill the hell out and have an IPA' but as all self-righteous runners know, that pint tastes so much better after a run.
One thought which I'll go into later - and illustrates the power of psychology in this running thing - is that if I am to reach my half-marathon target, I need to run the whole thing at 8mph. (My best of 3 half marathons is 1:41 and 8mph gets you about 1:38, and yes, my calculator and I have spent some quality time together).
This is not the most motivating thought is it? I'm going to forget it now until I am a bit fitter.
Dan
Hi Dan
Keep tracking your progress and more or less on par with you.
Just wondering that now you have your Garmin 405 would you be prepared to download it on the Motionbase website for all to view.
Dan,
Sounds like week 2 is going well for you. Think positive thoughts and use the force.
Where in Scotland did you do your Uni time? I am 15 mile East of Glasgow. You are right about that McEwans (and also Tennants) Lager - both p**h! Some things just stay with you I suppose.
I was out doing your week one 5min/5min interval run tonight and managed to pace around 9:15 & 7:30-7:45 min/mile with some variance for hills here and there. Does that sound OK? I know its just the first one but it felt not too bad. As you said checking the Garmin and flicking on the backlight can get compulsive.
Can we assume Dan that your schedule is not going to bear too much resemblance to the Garmin one originally proposed, and that Nick is revising yours to cover it all in four sessions per week.
Alternative Breakfast Theory:
Any of you nutrition experts care to comment on the merits of the Full Scottish Breakfast with the "Pigs Blood" substituted by "sheeps insides mixed with oatmeal and stuffed into its own stomach" known as Haggis?
That's making the black pudding sound pallatable now is it not!
Enjoy,
Dad, was out last night too sharing the pain for an hour or so. I love night running although find it slightly slower (it is really dark where we live out in the sticks).... Also remembered that I can no longer use my garmin unless I stop as I can no longer focus on it without specs at night! I should probably change the screen layout (FR305) so that I see HR and Pace on screen 1 and leave the rest to my imagination.
Loved the comment "the Jedi Approach"...... a few weeks practicing the Mr Bean run with the Garmin (the head down not looking where you are going version) should make you pretty good at the Jedi approach as you will be able to better judget levels of effort and the bodies response to that effort.
Have a good one, work calls!
Good effort RSA, and thanks for the advice Nick.
Based on Nicks advice, I will be doing the Tuesday session today. In future weeks I can see this becomming a bit of a motivational problem, as I am going to already know the pain and suffering you have gone through on the session the day before!!
No Garmin, so Its the Jedi approach all the way for me. I do have an IPod with the Nike + thingy, but I can't see the screen when running, might have to invest in something that allows me to see the screen when running.
The Force is with you
hi all, hope you're having good wednesdays
yaddi - in principle i'm well up for putting the runs on motionbase, i just need to learn how to do it. that's another thing for the to do list. watch this space.
john lowe 3 - i was at Edinburgh, which was a blast. This was in the days before Stella had its claws in every pub, and often McEwans was the only option. Your description is accurate, kind even. It was enough to force us to drink Calie 80, which rots guts. Your pacing seems about right but I'm wary of saying any more, as I'm a learner at this game, certainly not qualified to comment really. The challenge is going at an even pace, which I certainly haven't mastered. Maybe in week 3....
In terms of Nick's schedule matching to Garmins, well its up to Nick really, and he takes into account me & my training/idiosyncracies and then adds his expertise. To stop us thinking too far ahead he gives us 2 weeks at a time. The big thing for me versus the training I did for my only marathon, is to run at faster paces and in (controlled) discomfort. I did none of either before and am intrigued about the effect.
As for haggis, well, I spent 4 years in scotland and didn't see 1 person eat haggis outside of burns night (which is soon?), apart from maybe the old 3am dare at the chip shop. haggis - its a myth!
psc - its an easy slip of the keyboard. I know what you mean about night running, there's an anonymity there which is quite liberating. i do my fair share of Mr Bean.
hess - i think the force is with anyone going out there running on bleak, cold, frankly not very uplifting January evenings. I will now temper my Tuesday session descriptions to avoid motivational issues. how have you found the run?
Dan
Dan, my threshold run got me to 8.30mi, which should be my 10k ish pace. I find that equally horrifying. Nick says we have to trust him. That must be similar to feeling the force?
Have you been doing your pilates?
Hi Dan,
Yes did the Session yesterday at Luncthime not quite as bleak as an evening, but very foggy here in Hertfordshire, and mighty cold. Not too bad really tried to put in a constant effort through the 10 minute sets, but without a Garmin it was difficult to work out pace so based each 10 minute set on perceived exertion (Are those the right words?) Anyway once back Tiger Woods congratulated me on my fastest mile (07:50), why Tiger Woods god only knows!
So it looks like the session was about right, as I know my Ipod calibration is a bit out (It underestimates mileage).
Swimming for me tonight, and then back out on the road tomorrow.
So Haggis is off the breakfast list along with Hash Browns, but Bubble and Squeek is in. Getting a bit like the Chart show this one!
Hope you all have a good session today, but if you don't please don't let me know until Saturday!
Have Fun
Mark
Wotsit, hi there, hope all is good. I know what you mean, this threshold business so early on in the schedule is all new, but perhaps we'll look back one day and laugh at our comfortable pacing. maybe.
as for pilates, well.....in principle I am a fan but in reality I haven't got there yet mainly for time reasons. Have you tried it? i did some yoga back when Tony Blair was winning his first election and enjoyed it, even if i I redefined the word 'unsupple'
mark - sounds good, hell why not Tiger Woods, I am sure he would ou-threshold all of us any day of the week. as for today's running...
...a disaster. Woke up at 1.30am this morning in toothache agony, and then spent a couple of hours self-diagnosing root canal extraction at 2.30am and speaking to the helpful, nocturnal NHS Direct team. To cut a boring story short, I am dosed up to the eyeballs on painkillers and antibiotics to try and nail a gum infection.
Lack of sleep means I'm making an executive decision to do today's run (45 mins with middle 20 at marathon pace, which for the 3.45 target is a nice round 7mph) tomorrow since I'm useless today.
For those who believe in karma, etc, the beautiful synchronicity is that my little dental problems arrive a day after the daughter's first teeth start coming through. ahhhhh, how sweet, only she is making a bit more 'noise' than me.
dan
Dan, comiserations. If it makes you feel better (and it won't) my small son is also having problems with his last molars coming through. He's 2.5. Don't think of the teething timescale.
I've been doing pilates for about the last year - the husband and I started going together when I was ramping up marathon training and he was well into his double ironman training last Christmas. Its marvellous as far as supporting your back and therefore the strains involved in running longer distances. I'd really recommend a class, if you can find one that is small groups. I've done pilates from a video or from a leisure centre class and its just not the same. You need someone checking that you are in the right position when you're first learning the moves. Now, I can feel the difference in my back if I don't go.
Hope you sleep better tonight!
Alright Dan!
How goes it? Toothache along with ear ache is possibly the worst pain in the world. Hope you feel better soon.
On threshold runs, Liz is breaking me in gently by having me run at just under MP on Tuesday and a little faster today which is 7.25mm and 7.10ish respectively, that is a tad less scary than doing 6.30mm as the schedule suggests and works well from a confidence point of view (I lack that when it comes to running somewhat)
Sue
Good to hear you're getting into the threshold work. It's definitely worth doing it over a set distance etc. so you know you're doing the right pace. Generally once you get "locked-in" and have done it a few times and know what the pace feels like then the Jedi mind-trick works much better! If you can I'd definitely suggest getting to uni parks and using the loop there which is easily measurable on gmaps and a great surface to run on.
I think that by incorporating threshold and maybe some even faster stuff later on then you'll make some significant gains.
Hope the gums are feeling better soon for you and your daughter. Weather in Oxford is still crap and likely to be so for forseeable future
I had a nasty root canal infection at Easter last year. I ended up having my tooth drilled to relase all the gunk. Not nice. I looked like I'd been in a fight.
Ouch, toothache..... unlucky.
5 miles recovery in the dark for me this morning. Lovely out, cold but clear.... no need for a torch in the moonlight. Tried a new route and ended in deep mud.... perhaps I should only try new routes in daylight!
Hi all
Sorry to interrupt - just wanted to drop in and remind you that Nick Anderson will be online between 1 and 2pm today to answer any questions you might have about your marathon training too.
We've opened the debate a little early so post your questions for Nick now so he can get stuck in straight away at 1pm!
Thanks
Catherine
HI Dan, Shona here from Lucozade Sport - just checking in to see you are ok. Have been following the thread as much as I can - all good stuff! Have a good run this weekend and see you soon (24th). Shona
ps - Nick - thanks for the Q&A this lunchtime - lots of good questions answered.