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Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Richard (sub-3:15)
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MM - if that a typical days diet then you are eating way too little. You need regular snacks to boost the metabolism and get more from your food (bagels, maltloaf, nuts, fruit etc). You also need more fruit and veg in your diet.
"Eat to compete"
Been flouting the no lurking rule so here's my top tip for the day: for those who gag on porrige try mashed banana on toast as a pre run (or race) breakfast. Quick and easy to make and tastes great!
MM - congrats - your thread is flying. I'm struggling to keep up.
Yep - I'm also heavy, old, have knackered knees and take Glucosamine daily.
You can put what you like in porridge - it'll still taste revolting. Muesli is the breakfast of kings.
I was wondering about running without breakfast. I used to ride 50miles on a bike (2 1/2 hours) to deliberately hit the wall (or 'bonking' as cyclists and MM might call it) in an attempt to burn fat and also as a means of training the body to use fat rather than carbs. It was also good to prepare for running short of carbs in a race.
Good or bad idea? Has anyone tried this whilst running?
6M done in the snow thought it should have been a steady run so put a bit too much effort in. Teach me to read the schedule before going out
Happy Running Everyone
*Heads back to read the 100's of post that seem to have appeared*
Hi Keir,
I'm always out of the door 15 minutes after getting up and never have anything to eat. As long as you've eaten and drunk well the night before, I think it's fine. I do take a drink like Lucozade Body Fuel with me though if it's going to be a session exceeding 1.5 hours.
G&C for me too, knackered knees from rugby. But muesli pre run? You must be pebble dashing the countryside!
Gul, how long is breakfast in your gaff to eat all that?
Keir - Gul darr is correct. Its what you eat the previous day that matters. Like i said if I'm going as far as 16M or more then I'll have some porridge, let it settle for 10 mins and then go. I take no drinks or gels during LSRs either to train the body to burn fat. But I will carry a gel when I get to the LSRs that I push the pace on in the 2nd 1/2. I think most of the early morning runners are "straight out the door types "
However I need loads of calories to cycle and would eat porridge before a 50M and take some flapjack or malt-loaf. BUt my cycling is more or less max effort all the way.
TR - thanks for the dietary tips, I agree I'm light on snacking so will try to rectify that in the immediate future.
This Super Six thing is paying off as due to the telling offs from sub 3h15 regulars and on the advice of Liz I went out in my XC spikes tonight for a run while the wife and jnr snr were having their tea. i'd been playing with jnr snr out in the snow (snowball fights and pulling her on a makeshift sled) but found a spare 45mins and got out. It was fantastic! Out in the powdery snow in the pitch black in the local park for a couple of laps it was such fun. Definitely a run I wouldn't have done had I been self coaching or without the stern stare of the people on here.
Liz said steady and let's face it, in these conditions it wasn't going to be easy was it?
44m41s for 5.33miles at 8m22s pace. AV HR 166bpm, MHR 176bpm. Seeing as "steady" on this plan means marathon pace that's not far off marathon heart rate (170bpm) for me so that's fine.
Glad to see PorridgeGate has managed to seep over from the sub 3h15 thread where XPS was the porridge master.
Zapo- yes, I start off slowly and get no problems. I dont have time to wait 3 hrs as my training has to be bagged early doors cos of life/family stuff. I dont have a massive bowl of the stuff though, one (tea)cup of oats, one of water and one of milk.
MM - try a few snacks and see how it goes. I'm big on nutrition - it never ceases to make me smile that some folks take the running science to the nth degree and then eat a load of carp.
Barry B wrote (see)
Have just been over there and haven't laughed so much in ages - who needs Liz and the other coaches when this sort of advice is on offer?!
Interesting. I've been doing progressive LSRs of up to 16m at the moment without any pre-fueling (as a first-time marathoner this is the longest I've ever run). I have 18 scheduled this Sunday and 18 with 10 at MP the following week. Perhaps I need to try and take on some food before the first 18 session. TR - have you tried running greater than 16 in the past without pre-fueling?
Not that happy about it as it negates the whole point of running in my eyes
Surely the point of running as far as you are concerned for the next 3 months is to bag your sub 3:05 and fulfill the terms of being a super 6er. If that means running on a treadmill during extreme weather then so be it.
I've done 40 miles in the last 3 days, all on the treadmill because it was the only way of getting it done up here. We also ran 20 miles on Sunday outside in deep snow which took us 2:59 at 9 (Nine) m/m which was exactly 1 hour slower than I ran 20 miles in earlier last year at East Hull 20. 3 mins per mile slower than marathon pace due to conditions. Needs must. If you want it bad enough, suck it up and do it, as others have said.
Nice one to the people who've run multiple laps of a field in spikes, watched lots of test cricket and Phil `the Power' Taylor on the oche.
And from personal experience, Liz is spot on with leaving marathons in great 20m performances. That day at Hull I know I could have gone on and done another 10k in under 40 mins for a sub 2:40. Unfortunately I could not 5 weeks later.
I'm also very impressed with the nutritional advice you've got here about each of us being individuals with our nutrition just as we are with our training needs.
Unlike TR, I could not down a bowl of porridge and be out 10 mins later without leaving lots of it along the Trans Pennine Trail, but the Mrs is. So I know on marathon morning I need to eat at least 3 hours before the B of bang.
SBD - no havnt tried. Over 16M takes me over 2hrs and I havnt risked it. I've done a couple of midweek 14s recently off no fuel and felt ok. I guess I could do more but havnt tried.
The 20M race I do in the build up (that I dont race) is full dress rehearsal where I take gels at 4, 8 , 12 and 16M. By then I'm used to running most of my LSrs with no gels/drinks e(except teh odd one in case I feel the need when I'm pushing for home).
I'm pretty new to this too and am a bit of a novice myself. But if you're having no issues so far then stay as you are (except maybe carry an emergency gel). As I see it, teh more you train yourself to run without gels/drinks then the better you will go when you get 5 gels and as much luco as you can swig on race day. Might be talikng bllx (again) though. Also make sure you eat very soon after your long run, cos theres a 30 minute window of opportunity to take advantage of, during which your food will do more for your recovery, than if you leave it longer.
I get sick to death of sweet energy bars and gels on long bike rides so I've become something of a pork pie afficionado (a James Cracknell recommendation after his LEJoG record attempt) - not sure they'd be the best things for running though... I've started carrying one Torq gel with me on anything over 16m, and have it at half way whether I feel like it or not - another thing I've picked up from cycling is to eat pre-bonk not when it happens.
BR - I also note Liz's point about 20m races, but I posted on the sub-3:15 thread that I've had almost exactly the opposite advice from a 2:25 marthoner earlier today (run it "unihibited" were his words)! Mind you, he's an old school, 75m a week minimum, 1980's type...
I'm pretty much decided that I'll do my 20m race but do the first half something below MP and the second half a bit quicker, but I still think it's different for different folks - I do seem to recover quite quickly (2x18m and a fell race last week with no ill effects) which probably has something to do with being a fat git.