Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Richard (sub-3:15)

Matchstick Man

Barnsley Runner wrote (see)

Not that happy about it as it negates the whole point of running in my eyes

Surely the point of running as far as you are concerned for the next 3 months is to bag your sub 3:05 and fulfill the terms of being a super 6er.  If that means running on a treadmill during extreme weather then so be it.

I guess I'm having a sea-change in attitude BR and becoming more focused. A clubmate said to me back in December "if Liz Yelling were coaching me I'd cut out all the rubbish and eat properly for once" which struck a chord. I mean, I'm one of 6 people out of 2400+ applicants who've been lucky enough to get this opportunity so why shouldn't I take things more seriously? I'm making changes like drinking more, eating less rubbish,etc and also looking at either getting out at night for laps of a snowy park in my spikes or making sure I have the option of a treadmill.
Keir will know this one - it's about finding out all the tiny percentages and making a small improvement in various areas. On their own, each one is not that great but add it all up and you've got a major overall improvement: the "aggregation of marginal gains". It's the ethos of the British Cycling track team (and now Team Sky) but can easily be applied to those of us further down the food chain.
I don't want to look back on April 25th and think "what if" and if that means getting in all my sessions however hard they may be then so be it

CC2 - Speedy Goth

Dorset Cereals Porridge. No sugary muck like Oat So Simple and you can make as much as you like. I just had a huuuuge bowl of Cranberry and Raspberry made with oat milk for my tea.

Tesco value oats for flapjack. Agreed!

My schedule said 8 for tonight and I didn't fancy risking the drive to the gym, nor did I fancy 8 miles on my own in dangerous conditions. So I compromised. I ran 1.86 miles to the gym, almost all uphill on icy paths and lumpy, cambered, snow-covered grass verges at a ludicrously slow pace. Quick change into vest and shorts and clean shoes and onto the treadie for 4.5 miles. I was going to do a steady, easyish pace but got bored and kept upping the pace to get it over with quicker! Then 1.67 miles back to the bottom of the hill I live on (faster cos it was mostly downhill and no longer rush hour so I could occasionally get onto gritted roads - even followed the gritter along for a while) and a recovery walk/hike/slide back up the hill.  

[Deleted User]

Knight Rider - I'll be perfectly happy to run 2:20 for 20m in my race, especially if I feel like I've run the first half relatively easy.  My main goal is 3:15 (with sub-3 lurking if all goes well), and if I can run 2:20 (made up of say a 72min 10m and a 68min 10m) then that'll make me really happy - confident 3:15's well achievable and confident I can run 10m at 3hr MP after a 10m "warm up"!  To be honest, I'd probably be happy with a 75/70 min 2:25.

TR

BR - its the 3 mins flat out that worries me not the fuelling ! I cant afford to toe the line with DOMs.

[Deleted User]

TR - agreed it might not work for you due to the type of training you favour.  Not to say it's a load of `pony' for others for whom 3 mins flat out would not be such a shock to the system.  FWIW I struggle with 3 mins flat out as I rarely do flat out as my training is a lot of miles with a few around MP. but I've still found it useful to know I have to absorb x carbs in x hours as I like clear numbers to work at.

Joe Hawk

Andy/ Knightrider - IMO 2:20 is only a good target if your aim is definitely sub 3 not 3:15.
MP for a sub 3 at 20 is 2:17:xx so it is possibly on the fast side for sub 3 attempt especially if it is your longest ever race.

Ain't no point in a fast training run and a 3:01 or a 3:16 at the end of the day.

[Deleted User]

Morning, Running to 'Bonk' on purpose is not a good idea. I used to do this and have learnt a hard lesson with over training and fatigue. If you want to recover fast and feel good in your running you should fuel on all runs over 90mins, and for hard sessions over 70mins. This way you will not hammer your immune system and deplete your body of vital energy and hydration. If you want to teach your body to burn fat run very slowly pre-breakfast for 30-50 mins. The key to getting to the start line in great shape is looking after your body and training hard at the right times.

I have ran my best times when approaching a season like this and I felt more enthusiastic and energised in all my training runs, and felt less like laying on a sofa all day because I had no energy from depleted stores.

Something to think about!

[Deleted User]

Richard: Well done for the run yesterday! I am watching! lol

Hash

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

I guess I'm having a sea-change in attitude BR and becoming more focused. A clubmate said to me back in December "if Liz Yelling were coaching me I'd cut out all the rubbish and eat properly for once" which struck a chord. I mean, I'm one of 6 people out of 2400+ applicants who've been lucky enough to get this opportunity so why shouldn't I take things more seriously? I'm making changes like drinking more, eating less rubbish,etc and also looking at either getting out at night for laps of a snowy park in my spikes or making sure I have the option of a treadmill.

I don't want to look back on April 25th and think "what if" and if that means getting in all my sessions however hard they may be then so be it

Yep, that just about sums it up.

TR

BR - if folks think its a good idea and will help em carb load, then it probably is worth doing. Cos you have to toe the line full of self belief.

Matchstick Man

Got up late (proper late) this morning due to jnr jnr having a good night for a change! Meant another bed to front door in 10mins scenario but still ran to work no probs.
Schedule from Liz said 3 miles but due to time constraints had to run straight in for 2.60 miles. Tried to keep HR down but when you're running late it's hard to keep the pace slow!  8m17s pace overall with AV HR of 157bpm which considering the circumstances wasn't that bad.
Run home tonight calls for 4 mile steady but I'm not going to peg it at marathon pace due to icy conditions underfoot so will try and get some miles in at what I would call a steady pace. Does that make sense?

Matchstick Man

Liz Yelling wrote (see)

Richard: Well done for the run yesterday! I am watching! lol

I KNOW!  You and all the rest on this thread are conspiring to get me out the door! The regional Warks XC champs are in danger of being called off this Saturday due to the current weather conditions so it looks like I may not be racing this week.

[Deleted User]

The whole of world is watching, well probably a slight exageration. 

The whole of runnersworld and the regulars on the sub3.15 thread and a few extras are watching, to keep you on the straight and narrow.

Nothing further to add, didn't want to flout the no lurking rule for too long.

Matchstick Man

Windy wrote (see)

The whole of runnersworld and the regulars on the sub3.15 thread and a few extras are watching, to keep you on the straight and narrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I 

[Deleted User]

Well dumb ass me only went and left my bag of swimming things by the door at home instead of in my car where I need it!  I was so focused on getting kid to nursery, scraping car, getting to work on time etc.....Grrr.  So no lunchtime swim for me!  However.......I am going to put it to good use and go to the running shop and look into getting some trail shoes.  I've been thinking about it for a while as I live 1 mile away from Epping Forest, and really enjoyed running there in the dryer weater, but as soon as it rained I was sliding all over the place.

So, some advice please (in the next 50 mins if poss!) What's the difference between studs and spikes, and can you use them on the road at all ie to get to the forest, or only on soft surfaces?  And would either be any good on the pavements in this snowy/icy weather, as I will not be running in the forest after work in the dark!

Thanks!  And well done for all of you getting out there.  Need to check pool timetable to see if I can go this evening.  Knowing my luck it will be aqua aerobics for the over 70s....

Matchstick Man

carovet wrote (see)

So, some advice please (in the next 50 mins if poss!) What's the difference between studs and spikes, and can you use them on the road at all ie to get to the forest, or only on soft surfaces?  And would either be any good on the pavements in this snowy/icy weather, as I will not be running in the forest after work in the dark!

A few club mates went out last night in their Innov8 trail shoes for a night-time run without any problems but I can only give you advice as I have XC spikes. I managed to run on the pavements with them as the pavements were still icy/snow covered so the spikes worked fine. I only had to cross a road 4 times in over 5 miles last night so no problems really. They're truly off-road only, not any good for hard packed trails at all. Hope that helps

Keir

Liz Yelling wrote (see)

Morning, Running to 'Bonk' on purpose is not a good idea. I used to do this and have learnt a hard lesson with over training and fatigue. If you want to recover fast and feel good in your running you should fuel on all runs over 90mins, and for hard sessions over 70mins. This way you will not hammer your immune system and deplete your body of vital energy and hydration. If you want to teach your body to burn fat run very slowly pre-breakfast for 30-50 mins. The key to getting to the start line in great shape is looking after your body and training hard at the right times. I have ran my best times when approaching a season like this and I felt more enthusiastic and energised in all my training runs, and felt less like laying on a sofa all day because I had no energy from depleted stores. Something to think about!

ok, thanks Liz. A bit of a relieved to hear this actually!

Windy wrote (see)

The whole of world is watching, well probably a slight exageration. 

The whole of runnersworld and the regulars on the sub3.15 thread and a few extras are watching, to keep you on the straight and narrow.

MM, we are not just watching your training. We are now monitoring your daily food intake, time spent with kids and even the colour of your pee!

When do you get the big brother cameras installed? Have you started monitoring the consistancy of your poo?

My new years resolution was to empty my 1L water bottle twice per day. I usually drink too much tea and coffee and not enough water. Have kept the resolution so far, but pee'd at least 10 times yesterday!

Matchstick Man

Keir wrote (see)

MM, we are not just watching your training. We are now monitoring your daily food intake, time spent with kids and even the colour of your pee!

mmm, PeeWatch still at DefCon Level 1 so good there.

Time spent with jnr snr - logged some QT in the snow last night with her:

as you can see I barely had time to pull on my wellies over the top of my cycling kit when I got back before we were out the door! Couldn't be bothered to get changed into running kit so went running in that outfit (replaced the wellies with spikes though!) and this is what my feet looked like when I got back in:

Gul Darr

I've only got road shoes - no studs or spikes - but they've been fine on top of snow and grass.

 MM - like the pics, especially where you're towing jnr; great fun, isn't it?

Matchstick Man

Gul Darr wrote (see)

 MM - like the pics, especially where you're towing jnr; great fun, isn't it?

the international action that all children do in snow :

Keir

MM. Nice Lycra + Wellies look! I'll watch out for that style in this years Paris Nice!

I was wondering how I could take my 3 yr old son sledging without having a sledge. I see a green garden waste bag is the way to go. Fun afternoon ahead as the school I teach at is closed today  

Matchstick Man

Keir wrote (see)

MM. Nice Lycra + Wellies look! I'll watch out for that style in this years Paris Nice!

It's for post race leisure / podium wear. Wellies are the new crocs for the self resepcting pro. For once, I am out-dandying David Millar!

[Deleted User]

Thanks MM - am now the proud owner of a pair of Addidas Kanadia   Think I will swim tonight so won't try them out till tomorrow, but it also means I can do my long run in the forest on Sun. 

Can we discuss the consistency of MM's poo after I've eaten my lunch please?

Keir

MM, Can you get wellies with SPD plates?Might be useful for very muddy cyclocross events.

Are you getting out on clubruns at all, or does the 3.15 programme not allow it? Say hi to Christian for me next time you see him.

Matchstick Man

cycling has taken more and more of a backseat for me over the past couple of years as the marathon goal has slowly taken over so Sundays are now Northbrook AC club runs rather than Coventry RC club runs *sigh* I only get on the bike to get in and out of work at the minute but hopefully once April 25th is over I can get back to doing a bit and maybe racing the odd cross in the winter. Training for an hour's event is easier than for a 50mile + RR and if I get lapped who cares really? Getting spat out of the back of a chipper is not my cup of tea anymore

[Deleted User]

Hi all, Wow I’ve just been catching up on a very busy 24hours on this thread!   It’s great to hear you all considering your fuelling strategies, there’s been quite a few points raised so here follows my thoughts in response…  Firstly Richard –   I think now is a good time for you to keep a food diary just for a week so I can have a proper look at your nutrient intake for your specific credentials and training schedule.  If we need to make some modifications then we’ve got plenty of time to get it perfected!.  I’ll email you over a template with some additional info…Let me know if you hear anything re. carbo loading from the lecturer – always interesting to hear other people’s perspectives.  Seen Better Days/TR – I repeat Liz’s advice and would absolutely advise you to fuel up well before any 16m+ run, or any session in excess of 70 minutes.  Research shows a high carbohydrate meal 3-4 hours before running is the ideal scenario to help maximise muscle glycogen concentrations (well done Barnsley Runner!), with perhaps a small carb based snack or energy drink 30 mins pre run to give you an extra boost.   I say ‘ideal’ as we know this isn’t always practical when we roll out of bed and out of the door like Richard has today!  In this case we need to fall back on the nutritious high carb meal eaten for dinner the night before, and perhaps take some body fuel on route if the distance warrants it.  Re.  Saving use of gels or other fuelling products especially for race day – I wouldn’t suggest it!  Whilst I can see some people’s logic in wanting to peak from additional carb intake on event day, we all need to perfect our fuelling strategy in advance with some ‘dress rehersals’ so we’re completely comfortable in what we’re consuming and when we’re consuming it.    andy from embsay – Your not alone in getting tired of energy bars and gels!  How about mixing it up with something like jelly babies/beans – has anyone tried these??  A great friendly alternative.  It’s important to look forward to your next fuelling snack rather than dread it, and it gives us something to focus on mentally in those long sessions.  You’re spot on about avoiding the point of fatigue rather than trying to fix it when it happens – prevention is always better than cure.  I think that covers most issues for now!

[Deleted User]

Apologies for the very bunched up post above- my computer seems to disagree with this formatting!

 For those of you wanting to look seriously at your individual carbohydrate intake and consider g/kg/day, our fact sheet may prove a useful read -

 http://www.lucozade.com/sport/Downloads/Factsheets/carbohydrate_for_sport.pdf

knight rider

Emma, going back to the dabte on porridge. I usually have (dorset cereal) muesili with a handful of Mornflake Oat crunch mixed in & skimmed milk for breakfast. Excuse my ignorance, but is this on the same par as having porridge in terms of a slow release food?

[Deleted User]

It's more sweet stuff generally I get sick of, Emma, so jelly babies etc aren't a lot better - and it's mainly a cycling thing rather than running - some cyclo-sportives have feed stations where they just have cake/flapjack and energy bars.  Some have started having ham sarnies and sausage rolls etc, which suits me better.  I've just started using Torq orange and banana gels on LSRs, which taste quite nice and seem more palatable than most of the gels I've tried.

Dark Vader

Emma.. can I ask about maltodextrin..? This seems to be the base ingredient of many sports drinks, so I have bought a stock of it. It is a fine white powder, and looks just like any other powdered sports drink. What are your thoughts on using this in this format..? I've been mixing it into drinks and adding some to my porridge and it seems to be working just fine. Any thoughts..?